hectic1

Hello everybody, I was waiting to see how Maiterya will implement BOM, before I seriously test it. They did, and in my opinion they offer the most versatile and effective way to optionally mix BOM with layers. They got rid off the traditional tatt, underwear and clothing layers, but they do offer them as separate wearables, which is brilliant. All is handled from within the same HUD. Want to use an applier? sure, put on manually the destination layer and apply what you want on it. You don't want layers? Sure, take them off and be plain BOM... brilliant! Thankfully, they also have a full-body materials layer, so you can apply them on the body (they do include 2 materials by default in the HUD, plus no materials). You want system clothing (tatts, underwear) with materials specific made for them ? Sure, put on the clothing (tatt, underwear) layer and apply them there (those come as appliers -old school system layers (BOM) can't have materials). I tested pretty much all mainstream mesh female bodies (and a few male ones too), and from what I've gathered Maitreya is the only one with that brilliant implementation. Most of the other bodies I tested, they always carry all layers on them (even when putting them in BOM mode), while very few offer 2 separate bodies: BOM only, and layered only. I'm now all BOM as far as my body is concerned, though I can't quickly turn on and off tatts/makeup from HUD when photoshooting (now I need to hunt them into Worn tab to take them off and hunt them into Inventory to put them back on). Understandable, we can't have it all (darn it lol) Regarding mesh heads, I kept my non-BOM Catwa mainly for 2 reasons: a) my currently favorite skin doesn't come with a system layer for the head and it won't be updated (I asked) and b) Catwa's BOM Relay HUD doesn't reduce the number of worn layers, so not much gain in avatar complexity (in their update they just converted their BOM relay HUD into a button in their Master HUD). I didn't have the chance to test other heads, and frankly I won't for a while, till I find time again. For now I am happy with BOM body and non-BOM head.

Hello Da5id, let me please try to elaborate a bit more. As first mentioned by Wulfie, hidden textures will always get rendered, no doubt about that and no argument either... hence my... a few posts above. We all agree on that. Regarding the "apples and oranges", calculating the rendering-cost of any mesh wearable does not affect the calculated rendering-cost of any other worn mesh wearable. Yes they all sum up in the end, but here our point of reference was the clothing set, not the overall sum of all the wearable meshes. Put otherwise, if you start with a mesh body that skyrockets your complexity by itself alone, there is little point in blaming a hidden 4-faces pair of shorts, or a hidden 1 face tank top, and so on. I hope it makes more sense now. I agree hair is a difference in degree not nature, but in our case the degree is one of they key factors one should account before deciding whether they should go with one option or another. For one, a fully worn set, render-wise will cost exactly the same regardless of its consisting pieces being linked or no. However, the unlinked one will carry at least as many more scripts as the consisting parts minus 1 (the texture changer slave script), and if the outfit is also interactive (any kind of interactive... undress me, water interactive, or whatever) chances are it will carry twice as much scripts in it. So what is more important in this case? Frankly I am not to decide that. I believe it should be the customers' decision, and I assume the criteria would be quite different when the customer is say a stripper, compared to a home loner, a dj, and so on. So texture rendering is one factor, script count is another one, attaching slots is yet another one, for some ppl items count in inventory plays a role too, and one's habbits/whereabouts/style of virtual life are some extra factors too. And there is more, computer rig, quality of internet connection come in mind. Honestly I don't see what's the harm of having just another option in mind. We have like a gazillion options already. Most of which is out of our control anyway (I mean even if we walk around in system avatars with system clothes, we'll still have a hard time in a sim full of say moving trees, animesh creatures, and a gazillion little scripted 1024x1024 textured petty items all over the place... or even in a crowded club with 40 avatars crowded in and around a 5x5 dancing floor, having no control on the baggage they carry).

Yes sweat was a bad example Wulfie, see above. But I am not sure its the same with makeup, lipstick, eye shadows and such, cause those need to be aligned more precisely on their proper places. If BOM forces everyone to use the same UV maps then all good I guess, if not then they will probably show misplaced on different heads.

Oh you are right about that Alysa, my bad (actually with BOM you can bake up to 64 layers into 1). Sweat was a bad example, but how about eye shadows? makeup? lipsticks? PS. My looks, yes they are quite important to me, I hope I don't have to justify why LOL

In a primitive form yes, that's an undress me script. Mine is on steroids tho (well will be when released) *chuckles*

Umm.... I see uncalled teeth, makes me wonder whether I should use mine too in my reply. I choose not to, this time. I shared an alternative that works for me and I explicitly presented it as such, in a specific context too, namely: clothing! You made it sound like I tried to enforce it, and you generalized. For starters I don't see what multi-pieced multi-face onion skin bodies have anything to do with mesh clothing. Your body will be rendered regardless of what other mesh you are wearing or not. Apples and oranges. Then, I only talked about clothing, not hair. Btw linked multi-style hair is already used by many brands for quite a while, so seems like it's not just me who decided etc etc. Nevertheless, again hair and clothing is NOT the same thing. On average, the linked pieces and/or used faces of hair are multiple times more than any clothing or even a dozen of clothing pieces. I never suggested anything about hair, i didn't even talk about hair. Everything costs to the grid, there is no such thing as a free meal. Moreover, not everyone has the same needs nor evaluate their needs with the same criteria (textures vs scripts, outfits vs separates, the list is endless really). Hence, imo, the more the options the better.

Texture/Color/Style/Gloss/Glow changer (that's what I called the HUD above) is usually a separate script from Undress Me. Some reasons from the top of my head: maybe they were purchased separately, or maybe one was written long time ago and when need raised for the 2nd one it was not possible or was much easier to write a new one than refactoring and merging them, especially when you work on deadlines. In my case the main reason is that each of them is pretty involved, so they don't fit both in 64k Sorry, I should have been more specific.

I'm sparing the quote splitting for now lol Thank you for explaining to me Wulfie, i'll use it when is mnore needed.. seems like we are the only ones taking now! ♥ Oh I think the confusion came because I used as an example an Undress Me set of clothing... so for each clothing piece i counted 1 script for the hud-slave, and 1 script for the undress-me functionality... I didn't take into account the hud-master script at all. For the bodies, yeah neither option is perfect. Consider also that often I have to deal with 14 or more body sizes, add to that their demos, and sometimes different versions within each body. I do name my stuff consistently, but even if one doesn't, the script can look just for the body name (instead of the the whole item name). For example, unpack only those items that have "freya" or "isis" or "venus" (or any other alternatives one may use) would work for Belleza related items only, etc. Anyway, tbh I don't think it's that important, since ppl can always delete all the bodies they don't want after unpacking anyway (else I would had already used such a script lol)

No worries, sometimes typed communication can be confusing indeed. I think the "you can't use materials with BOM" thing is mostly spread due to the fact the the Lab stated BOM does not support materials.. And frankly what you showed is quite helpful, I for one didn't know it was working, tho I still have no idea why it does, since BOM isn't supposed to support materials. Nevertheless, it does seem quite crippled compared t what we are used to right now.

Someone has to tech me how I can split quotes so i can reply to individual parts (I don't seem to find an option to switch the forum editor into bbcode view). Say you have a jacket, a top and a skirt, all controlled by the same HUD. Unless you link them all together (which is what I am saying right from the start) each of the clothing pieces should contain a slave script which will communicate with the master script (in the actual hud). Unless there is any other way I am not aware of. Awe, that's what you meant it is simple. Yes it is, but also time consuming. An arguably better option would be for the unpacker to offer options for unpacking individual bodies only and it would work the same on MP and in-world, and some creators do it. It is in my to-do list since a long time, but I'm not sure it is worth the trouble.

I am not talking about clothing, I am talking about things like tatts, eyelids, lips, etc... and no, what you showed is not what we can do right now. Right now we can make a materials enabled tattoo without affecting anything else on the skin, same for the lips, etc and we can turn them on and off on demand too JUST for those parts only.... with what you showed we would need as many diffuse, normal and spec maps as all the possible permutations for the different states of each individual part. So no, it's not the same at all! About real-time interaction, I don't really see what your argument is about. I didn't say anything different. Materials are all about real-time interaction with SL's lighting system, and they are static maps yes, but especially made for dictating/faking the run-time "3d" looks when interacting with the lights (skin pores, lips wrinkling, etc).

1. I said HUD-slave scripts Wulfie. Also I said pieces that can be worn separately (aka, the traditional way) Each one of them needs a HUD slave-script, so my math is quite good ( btw, I for one am willing to listen to your suggestions, since I'm about to release my own Undress Me line of clothing, with my very own script which includes a few extra twists... btw, there are more than just 1 undress me creators) 2. I am all ears *giggles* (I do hope though it is also extremely simple to do it in-world too)

Thank you Wulfie, I just had a look at that thread. It's been already pointed out in further replies of that thread that what you showed in the picture is not really what we do have right now. Right now we can control materials on individual parts basis, while what you showed applied the same materials to all parts. Also, with onion layers we can have things like sweat over the skin, etc. I have no idea if materials as we know them now can even get implemented in BOM, cause materials is all about real-time interaction with SL lighting system (ALM), which is kinda the exact opposite of static bakes. I hope most body/head creators will settle with hybrid solutions (e.g. provide some extra layers on top of the BOM layer, probably less than they have right now) and that's what they are already doing in my experience. We'll have to wait and see I guess, but right now it does look like a downgrade for our hard-worked looks lol

Nods! However, ll2Key() besides making the script easier and lighter, it also guarantees the name returned is unique. Combined with the menu buttons limit would decrease even more the (thin) chances of names appearing as being the same inside the menu. Nipticking, but maybe worth noting.

We can't have it all, I wish we could. It's always a trade-off, but it's good to have more options so anyone can choose what works best for them each time (pros vs cons). For example, with the "traditional" way, an Undress Me set with say 3 pieces which can also be worn separately, would come with a HUD slave and an Undress me script inside every piece of the set (6 scripts for the set), would occupy 3 attachment slots on the body, and it would ship with 3 x NumberOfSupportedBodySizes items in the inventory (just for the big-3 this means: 3 Maitreya + 3x3 Belleza + 3x2 Slink = 18 items in the inventory). Wearing 2 out of the 3 pieces, would reduce the scripts count to 4, the attachment slots to 2 and the inventory items to 12. The hideable-pieces alternative would always contain 2 scripts, would always occupy 1 attachment slot on the body, and it would ship with 6 items in the inventory. It's up to the potential buyers to decide if those are more important compared to the always-rendered hidden textures. Among other things, modifiable clothing would allow everyone to apply their own textures on a clothing mesh they have bought at a multiple-times lower price compared to buying it full-perm or creating it themselves (could also mislead people who inspect the clothing in believing that this crappy/awesome texture was made by the displayed brand). Script removing is something that has puzzled me too (whether I should offer it as an option or not). It is dead simple to put a Remove Scripts button in the HUD, but I decided against it, cause it totally cripples the functionality. and in 2020, clothing can do so much more than just keeping us warm.