Rathgrith027

March 25

3 minutes ago, MillyWH said:

Ok I feel like if this had been toward the beginning of this thread it would have cut to the issue instead of kind of dancing around it and having people get off on to tangents.

I honestly wish I did, Milly. Would have probably spared the Lindens more likely than not the trouble to come in here.. three times in a row.

But then again, I proceeded to roast the BBB over an open fire fervently in a deleted post made mostly out of frustration than anything else so... yeah.

March 25

16 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

It's too bad so much of the discussion here is missing the point of the OP.

It's not about whether someone gets left out of a coterie. It's certainly not about crapping on people who've put a lot of work into organizing fun events for residents -- no one would or could deny that the BBB does that. And it's not about someone who hasn't done the work wanting to "get in" -- the OP has contributed a huge amount to the community: she has an enormously impressive resume of work done that benefits SL.

The issues being highlighted by the OP here are systemic, and relate to how LL chooses to engage with community leaders -- and who it decides, for its own corporate reasons, to ignore or even hamper.

As much as I hate to suggest there is a sort of FIC dynamic at work here (it's a concept I've ridiculed generally in other contexts), it is absolutely clear to me, after having done a little digging around, that LL has managed all of this rather poorly, and has decided that there is a pretty select group of community leaders, creators, and so forth that it will listen to and employ for projects like this -- that it "favours" in other words.

I am sure that this is not malicious or deliberately nasty: LL is a business, not a democracy, and it chooses, I'm sure, approaches that seem most efficient for its own corporate purposes. But it's also very poor community relations, and it's evidently causing damage.

Kudos, genuinely, to the BBB for all of the great work it does. But the lack of transparency and openness, as well as an apparently very real tendency of LL to not merely ignore, but maybe actually impede "competing" creators and community leaders, is obviously a problem. And it's possible to find that problematic without hating on the BBB or even LL itself.

It's a system that needs to be rethought.

To be clear, I have no horse in this race, as I live on the Mainland rather than Belli. Nor am I in-world friends with anyone here involved. I don't have "insights" that aren't available to anyone who does a bit of reading and listening, and I can't vouch for the veracity of everything that has been said on either side

But this would be a much more productive and fruitful discussion if it stopped focusing on personalities and motives, and started to examine instead exactly how things are being run by LL and the BBB. In other words, how can the system be made better and more inclusive.

I couldn't put this into better words myself.

11 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

If only life were fair!

So letting a major community sit here and bully a competitor to one of their products off the grid, and having their associates gaslight her and all who either suffered her same fate or stand behind her, is okay to just let happen, Love? Not even regarding the fact they have a working relationship with LL? If I were head of Product Operations and I saw Feorie's video, I'd be ordering the event postponed and the BBB, B5APC come forth with Feorie and other concerned parties to bring evidence to the table and sort this mess out.

That is all I want, is some accountability and for the bad actors to be shown the door. If the BBB would disavow the actions of those who did wrong against Feorie et al, I would have *NO* problem with them. None at all. Sure, there would be bitterness from the fact it happened at all, but I would let time heal that wound and decide whether I would want to engage with them down the line.

Life may not be fair, but it sure as hell is not an excuse to tolerate injustice.

March 25

53 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Hell, No.

Do you read or watch sci-fi?

Yes, I do.

No, I don't think Black Mirror is an excuse to reject CBI/BCIs.

March 25

Neuralink Implant? No.

Full Dive VR kit? I'll sign up for the beta.

March 24

2 hours ago, Teresa Firelight said:

This thread accuses the BBB of doing something horrible -- spending a year working hard to organize/prepare an big event for all Bellisserians (... actually for all SL residents....) to celebrate Bellisseria's fifth anniversary. Such a crime! how dare they give hours and hours and hours of their time and effort for a whole year to organize this??? Perhaps we should hang the B*stards!

Except...

As it turns out, the BBB is not organizing this -- it is organized by seven people (listed above in Prudence Anton's Post). Not a single one of them is a member of the BBB.

Putting sarcasm aside, I would like to thank each of the seven committee members for all their work. I look forward to Belli's milestone anniversary and I am grateful that a big fun event is being organized to allow us to celebrate it together.

Prior to Harley's moderation actions, Feorie had brought up a response that essentially boils down to a sizable chunk of those in the Committee have ties to the BBB User Group.

Out of respect of Harley and Dyna's wishes that I respect the peace, I am going to stress this as politely as I can - The BBB User Group is an invite-only group, to my knowledge. What is to say those members in the committee aren't complicit, or at least, have a conflict of interest?

March 24

The BBB has some nerve to rear their heads after Feorie's allegations.

As someone who was witness to her original video, I cannot stress this enough - regardless of your opinion on me, this event should be boycotted - along with any initiatives by or in coordination with the BBB. Not until we get answers from the lab about what happened between BBB and Forever Tourist.

March 23

6 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Maybe it would be an idea if LL provided so graphical definitions to educate both residents and those Lindens tasked with the responsibility of meting out bans or warnings for what consitutes an underage looking avatar. IMVU for example does to some degree even including a picture of "minimum coverage" for what an underage avatar should be wearing.

Can't tell me a platform has any real policy if it does not provide some guidance on minimum requirements.

This would be great. A graphical representation would help sort that facet of the problem out much more clearly.

March 23

8 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

No way, this shouldn't be left to a landowner except the part that can stop them from entry. No way would I be want to be subject to and AR that potentially bans my account because the landowner was having an off day (or life in the case of some).

We already seen a picture of a cute avatar labelled as WTF 9 where one poster even opined she looked 20 though I seen the picture looked like that of a 12 year old, if that. That is too large of a discrepancy in opinion to leave it up to Landowners.

Okay, let me rephrase it:

Landowners do, and should have ultimate authority, outside of reasons outlined in the Community Standards and TOS, over what goes on within their parcels. The only exception that can chill this kind of concern over aggressive ARs is to implement something similar to CDA Section 230 where liability on the landowner for TOS violations that they are unaware or not engaging in does not leave them liable to punitive action.

Then the land owners don't have an incentive to be so overly aggressive.

March 23

Just now, Arielle Popstar said:

That to me evolves to an inconsistency of what is allowable and the potential for abuse. If it is simply that the avatar is stopped from entering the area fine, but if the Landowner can also potentially ban them from the platform then it goes too far.

As much as I dislike some places with more.. aggressive policies, such as a motel out on Satori that has a stringent no furries rule that worried me as a bit.. intolerant, the reality is that SL has always favored the rights of landowners and their authority for the most part, to restrict and control their land at their discretion - and rightfully so.

March 23

4 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

What would you do about someone who goes to an Adult sim with a young adult avatar, but also has one or more Picks in their profile showing their suggestively dressed child avatar?

Then it should be investigated by the Lab on the merits of what is in the picks and any potential chat logs and region logs in the areas their agent was in as far back as the 30-day retention period allows.

Edit:

"Oooh, but that takes too long Nodoka!"

Ctrl+F is your friend. If I can find my lewd activities by searching the word ***** in any of my chat logs and find it quickly, then the lab can search for keywords and investigate from there.

March 23

1 hour ago, Coffee Pancake said:

It wont stop people trying to leverage the rules to get avatars belonging to certain social groups banned .. you know, for existing.

Which is my primary problem. If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck and looks like a duck, whack it off Agni, end of.

My problem is mother*****ers love to conflate things when they shouldn't. That is the crux of my point, conflation - people close to the line but not pushing it are getting hit when they shouldn't. If you look like a loli and you're doing the dirty, you're gonna get *****canned - I won't pity you. But at what point do we draw the line between someone who is 18, and someone who is 17, which, need I remind people - is the magic number here, not whatever your country goes by, since LL is a US corporation.

Age by height or other factors alone is insufficient, and the style of an avatar muddies the waters if they're not realistic. Shutting out legitimate, wellmeaning users who have had NO intentions whatsoever of engaging in *****, is again, no different from that head-in-ass take that Extra Credits did years ago. People are not ageplayers solely because they boink in anime or kemono avatars, nor are women shorter than 5' 5" automatically *****ing children. Full stop. End of. Take that bigoted ***** out back where it belongs and canoe it like it deserves.

March 23

1 minute ago, Persephone Emerald said:

One thing LL could do to improve their public image is to ban advertising Adult events on this forum.

I don't mind them advertising employment opportunities for Adult venues, because where else are they going to advertise that really? Events seem to be better advertised inworld in the Classified section or in Adult groups, imo.

problem with the former is.. I don't know anyone who uses the classifieds. In my 10 years of being on SL, I can't remember using it outside of possibly a curiosity in my first days.

March 23

7 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

The group in question is "associated" with (i.e., named for) a RL group that has been designated a domestic terror organization in my country, and associated with numerous criminal court cases in the US. The group profile includes a link to the RL organization's web site (which site, happily, has since been taken down, I think) and YouTube video removed because it violated YT's community guidelines..

So, no, not really "RP."

And even if it was Roleplay, it's despicable. Governance if anything, needs to stamp out intolerance and harassment.

March 23

7 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Where the heck are you all hanging out? I've received maybe 3 dick pics in all my years here and none of those in the last 10 years. Ick!

2 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Well, NOW you'll probably get them!

You guys want dick pics so much, here's one for you.

March 23

3 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

what i want to know is, why isnt there a separate rating for xxx adult groups, and such groups cannot be seen in a persons profile, since adult content is not allowed in a profile.

We have general, mature and adult sims, we need the same ratings for groups.

And if an adult group lists itself as mature to get onto profiles, it is disbanded by LL if it is discovered

If adult content's not allowed in a profile, then good god, LL sucks the ***** out of a cow's ass at enforcing it.

No offense, of course - I for one welcome negligence in that regard.

March 23

23 minutes ago, Sparkle Bunny said:

Apart from the fact that, as multiple people have pointed out, the production of cartoon SA imagery is against the law in the US, we also have to factor in the Nazi bar problem.

Which is to say: if your platform is known to tolerate cartoon paedophila with, as its defenders like to insist, no 'real' victims as everyone involved is over 18, there is a risk that your platform becomes a magnet for people with those inclinations, and, before you know it, is being used to facilitate the circulation of RL CSAM. That is not a situation LL wants to find itself in, and it's equally unacceptable to most residents. I don't want people thinking I'm a paedo because I'm in SL. I get quite enough judgment on that score already, thanks.

I have to second Sparkle's statement. As much as I find the pursuit of fictional CSAM (as someone who is a CSA survivor) wholly detrimental to the pursuit of actual child abuse by taking focus away from actual, physical crimes that ruin lives - I respect and agree with *why* the lab bans CSAM-related activity in any capacity, fictional or otherwise, in SL. It is a PR nightmare, and something no one can change. The last thing I need, that *WE* need, is to be labeled a bunch of kiddy diddlers.

My sole, primary concern in the aspect, is the same that many residents have aired, is the fact that Governance has historically used a thermonuclear response to such things, rather than any meaningful precision. A femboy on looks alone should not be iusta de causa to ban them - even more so, if in the case of one of my friends who was banned, and then unbanned after he made it abundantly clear that not only did his package look nothing like a minors, he never acted like one and would take the Lab to court over it if they didn't reverse this head-in-ass decision.

Gender Non-conforming and stylized avatars such as Anime avatars have been overwhelmingly targeted for ***** bans, most of the time - to the chagrin of a certain Evanescence cover band-looking comedian's hot and racist takes on the matter that make it look like an epidemic (I've blocked you and this is the last time I'm going to humor you with anything, so don't bother answering me) - it is unjustified.

The lab needs to tighten their enforcement of ***** and make it much harder for them to just throw someone out based on something that damning. End of. If these groups, who had the idea of CSAM activity *never* cross their mind, cannot express themselves freely, it will be a slippery slope after this, I'm certain of it.

March 23

1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

There is OSGrid and similar, which is literally based on older versions of Second Life.

OpenSim pales in comparison - infrastructure is haphazard, even with the Hypergrid, features are lacking behind SL to some degree, content in OS' ecosystem is lackluster compared to SL, usercount is worse than SL, and the fact a Web3 platform is trying to use it doesn't do anything more than sour it further, at least to me.

Wake me when these problems are gone.

March 23

Just now, Starberry Passion said:

At the end of the day, I'll still play second life, the last thing I want is for second life to die. There are no other places like second life, it might be small, have an elitist problem, a bit clique based, have discriminatory behavior and people who abuse the system, not talking about "That" but other things they do to ban someone simply for what they look like,

I've grown up here and invested so much into the platform. I just have to wait until this is resolved and then go about my business and hopefully there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

That's the mentality to have, but it's not all dark and gloom. Our world is a vast, beautiful place, diverse in mindsets, ideals, desires and appearances, with creativity brimming from the seams. Even as much as I have frustration with some of my fellow residents, we all are part of a greater tapestry forged in chaos.

We'll come out of this. We've been through worse.

March 23

5 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said:

So you used your fake Elvis ID to get your Process Credit account approved?

I used mine to buy a time machine to go back in time and short Ginko Financial stock.

March 23

1 minute ago, Wincil said:

Age verification was removed due to it having issues.

And probably won't return because of both the fact it is heatedly debated, and in some jurisdictions, it is outright illegal (Singapore, for example) as regional laws ban the possession of state identification by non-state entities or not by the individuals who are issued them.

March 23

8 minutes ago, Bertram Merlin said:

Chat sides in Denmark shall save copy of chats for 5 years....

Linden Lab servers do not reside in Denmark. Linden Lab is not beholden to the laws of Denmark regarding data retention.

The only laws they are beholden to in that regard are those codified in the United States Code and California Civil Code as a corporation incorporated in San Francisco, California.

March 23

33 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

One last thought before I head out to work.

What happens if Amazon decides it doesn't want to be associated with a platform that allows pedophilia to exist and kicks Second Life off of its servers?

What then?

It won't. Amazon has more likely than not a pre-existing contractual agreement for services, as opposed to say, a small scale 'pay-as-you-go' plan used by small businesses, primarily due to the demand and needs of LL's operations. There are probably provisions in the contract that either prohibit early termination without hefty penalties on either side. That and beforehand, the Lab probably would be taken aside by Amazon and asked why AP is going on.

LL can easily just point to the TOS, and Amazon just goes about its' day. The Lab has not, does not, and will not allow such material. Just because it occurs, does not mean it is allowed. Were that the case, nothing bad would ever happen in Second Life - or online. Ever.

The reality about governing things, and for once i'm playing in Governance's court, imagine that - is that you can't expect them to catch everything. We always think of the people who break the rules when they happen, and not - if governance does something. More oft than not they do.. even if they are zealous in that matter.

March 23

6 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Anyone else want to ban themselves from this thread, because they're sick of it?

I'm only sick of a certain person who I've since blocked, but Outside of wanting to discuss how to sort out bans from here on like I spoke about with Coffea earlier, I've not much else to say until the Lab comes forth with their findings - hence why the past few posts have been me more or less taking the piss.

We've been at this for 48 hours now and it's been beaten like a dead horse. Let's call it how it is, and just close the thread and wait for the results - then we can reopen discussion.

March 23

7 minutes ago, PermaRuthed said:

You know damn well where you're going with the mocking -ki rhymes and maligning body types not conforming to the hourglass ideal.