oberon Zuta

Drake1 Nightfire wrote: So, what you are saying is that you don't have a CC or debit card... does your bank offer a debit card? If so, link it up... if not.. what backwoods bank do you use? Ok thank you for your post. So - what is an accepted debit card in this damn jungle of debit cards? I accept that LL needs to cover the PayPal account by a debit card - but WHY they do this, i have NO IDEA.

Innula Zenovka wrote: What country are you in, oberon, that you are having difficulties buying L$? If you are in Germany, as your first post suggests, I asked in SLU a few days ago about if German people have difficutly with PayPal and several people said, no, they didn't. Maybe you could ask one of them for advice. Thank you for contacting Linden Lab Support. Sorry to hear you're having problems adding Paypal as a Payment method. However, in order to add Paypal as a payment method to your Second Life account, you must also link a major credit/debit card to your paypal account. You will not be able to add paypal to your Second Life account unless you link to major credit/debit card to your paypal account. ----

Perrie Juran wrote: oberon Zuta wrote: It is really bad - now, the only possibillity to earn L$ is to do escort service - but i guess it is not allowed in USA hehehe. Congratulation Amethyst Jetaime! You won! I can hear your laugh over the pond. And my thoughts are - how silly must an individual must be to act like her. Maybe i report them about infringment against racisms law. She called europians whiners and complainers instead to bring a solution - what will LL think aubout her proposal to kill the europians in SL? This is extremism. Who is she? Can she be a femal? It is a good thing that you don't speak for all Europeans. A very good thing. Twisting what Amethyst and others of us have said is just plain wrong. Hello Perrie - i dont define me by nation, race, footballclub, skin color, confession, or ideology and i divide humans in good and bad. I am an idividualist. I dont twist Amethist's words. And i dont speak for all europians i speak for myself. So please calm down.

Hi Trinity See yourself how much she did it: ======= 05-11-2013 04:47 PM I bet there will be more complainers whining that they still don't accept the form t 05-13-2013 12:04 AM - edited ‎05-13-2013 12:15 AM I think it is mostly Europeans that have been effected by the TPE"s closing. I honestly haven't seen anyone else from any other part of the world complain about it except one Brazilian who said he can't get a credit card just like there are people in the US who can't either I think if it effected them that much they'd be in here complaining just as the Euro's are. Either people from other parts of the world didn't use TPE's a lot or they have figured out a way to use the Lindex. 05-15-2013 09:42 AM - edited ‎05-15-2013 09:54 AM On what do you base this assertion? I haven't seen anyone but Eutopeans complain about this issue and Euro's don't make up half the population of SL. I understand your anger, but I think you should take a break from SL ===== And it is wrong - it exist here a thread who brazilians say, that they dont have the possibillity to buy lindens now ... and that (quotation) 'mostly of brazilians buy lindes by friends who have PayPal or CC's' they only answer of Amethyst for that is a simply link on PayPal website. I really dont need this behaviour here. I dont like to be teached with all this LAW stuff. Maybe it explaine some decicions - but please without that arrogance. I dont like to support money laundering and other criminal stuff. I never complained about nothing. I only ask for a solution how to buy lindens now. I f someone have an answer - i will be happy again. I promise. And this answer is still not givern. From nobody. And finally i am only intersted in this answer.

Trinity Yazimoto wrote: Well i really dont think Amethyst is guilty for LL decisions... she s a resident like you and me and she only said her opinions about what is happening.. i dont think there is smth wrong with that.... Linden labs are the ones who manage their own company and SL.... Residents doesnt have this power. And governments are the one who make the laws... Companies dont. Trinity - i dont say that Amethyst is guilty for decision of LL. I say she or he is guilty for her opinion that europeans are whiners and complainers. And this to hear if u see to loos your connection to all you bought in SL and to your friends here and u have no possibillity to keep staying as u are familiar with in SL - what will you think about such a person others than that she is rude, arrogant and ingnorant? Even she say that not 50% are europians in Sl and that they can go - SL will loos nothing. I will see a CEO surviving a reduction of revenue of 10% - not to talk about 50% - it is simply a silly statement. I dont talk about facts - i talk about her or his opinion.

Now it's clear. It is not possible to set payment information without Credit Card information, PayPal need CC information too. I received an answer from LL support - no other way. I don't know the reason of this . But it is fact. In meantime the last two TPE's closed it's service too. So i cant buy no more linden$. I bought few lindens - and i can pay my rent for a month - maybe the girls's who's concern found a solution right then. Otherwise: Game Over for me. Is it possible to sell goods to other avatars? Exist a market for that inworld? I have few interesting things.

It is really bad - now, the only possibillity to earn L$ is to do escort service - but i guess it is not allowed in USA hehehe. Congratulation Amethyst Jetaime! You won! I can hear your laugh over the pond. And my thoughts are - how silly must an individual be to act like her. Maybe i report them about infringment against racisms law. She called europians whiners and complainers instead to bring a solution - what will LL think aubout her proposal to kill the europians in SL? This is extremism. Who is she? Can she be a femal?

Trinity Yazimoto wrote: oberon Zuta wrote: Trinity Yazimoto wrote: good find Oberon.. doenst seem to solve the pb however... still asking a credit card from what i ve read.. idk Did u have a happy rezzday? You are exactly one day older than me .... Funny to know that another french person joined sl just one day after me lol... but i guess there was other ones too... just funny to know :smileywink: hehehe - i am not french ... but my grandfather was.

Innula Zenovka wrote: Registering as a money service business might help persuade LL to reach a particular decision about what it will or won't permit someone to do, but can't force LL to permit anyone to do anything, at least not that I can see. and this is the description in the actual ToS: 5.3 There are other exchanges that are operated by third parties on which Linden dollars are exchanged. Third party exchanges are not authorized by Linden Lab and Buying or Selling Linden dollars on third party exchanges are not authorized transactions. Third party exchanges are wholly distinct from both the LindeX exchange and Linden Lab and they have no affiliation with Linden Lab. We do not endorse or otherwise guarantee the legitimacy of the Linden dollar transfers offered on them, and we are not liable for purchases of such Linden dollars. Buying or Selling Linden dollars anywhere other than the LindeX is done so solely at your own risk. If you Buy Linden dollars that are traced to unauthorized credit card activity or other fraudulent activity, we will recoup these Linden dollars from your Account. The only authorized exchange is the LindeX. --- especially this sentence is important: We do not endorse or otherwise guarantee the legitimacy of the Linden dollar transfers offered on them, and we are not liable for purchases of such Linden dollars. Buying or Selling Linden dollars anywhere other than the LindeX is done so solely at your own risk. LindenLab dont say that they Lindendollars you buy at TPE' dont accept and that it is forbidden to sell or buy L$. NO - they say that there are other players on market: 5.3 There are other exchanges that are operated by third parties on which Linden dollars are exchanged. But they say, that LindenLab dont have to accept this L$. Only in case of fraudulent activity (especially unauthorized CC's activities), will LindeLab recoup the L$ from your account. But - if the TPE is registered as MSB, then is the possibillity/danger of closing the service on criminal reason little. Linden Lab is not registred as MSB right now ... neither (for example) Podex.info or Anshex.com, the two activ playing actors. Finally is it not forbidden to trade with Lindendollars. But if someone do, he probably fall under the discussed LAW and must probably be registred as MSB. But if i could buy L$ without Credit Card by LindeX, i will do it.

Innula Zenovka wrote: To my mind, any thought of loopholes is illusory. If a TPE becomes an official registered money service business, that may or may not help them to persuade LL to allow them to continue to exchange L$. However, it seems to me that the decision is entirely up to LL. Registering as a money service business might help persuade LL to reach a particular decision about what it will or won't permit someone to do, but can't force LL to permit anyone to do anything, at least not that I can see. ... slowly appear the true reason ... http://www.epaylaw.com/2013/05/08/i-deal-with-virtual-currency-do-i-need-to-register-with-fincen-and-what-happens-if-i-dont/

Ticka Alphaville wrote: The negociation was: someone buy lindens and sell for me...before getting the lindens, i send money into their bank´s account and then the lindens were sent to me and here the proof: 31 C.F.R 1010.100(ff)(1-3) makes an exception for currency exchangers who transact currency exchages in the amount greater than $1,000 on any given day. This would have made life a lot easier for some bitcoin miners most of whom probably make way less than $1,000 a day from their mining activities. The problem is that FinCEN classifies virtual currency exchangers and administrators as money transmitters, and not as currency exchangers A person must exchange the currency of two or more countries to be considered a dealer in foreign exchange. Virtual currency does not meet the criteria to be considered “currency” under the BSA, because it is not legal tender. Therefore, a person who accepts real currency in exchange for virtual currency, or vice versa, is not a dealer in foreign exchange under FinCEN’s regulations. (FIN-2013-G001,pp 5-6)

Trinity Yazimoto wrote: Not Linden Lab's problem - Their stance is understandable. Payment fails from the primary source (bank account)? No secondary source? They'll have to remove L$ from the account whose payment failed and the accounts of anyone that was paid out from that balance. A similar incident happened a few years ago when a user who had a massive balance gained from a fraudulent source paid out a large sum of Linden Dollars to Sim owners. Linden Lab had no choice but to temporarily suspend all of the accounts invlolved and recoup the balance, thus severely hurting the Sim owners. It happens. yes, Solar.. and i m not saying its linden lab's problem.. i was just meaning that you cant answer to all the pp who actually cant anymore buy l$ "its not at all difficult to get a paypal account"... paypal account is not the unique requierement.... The unique one is owning a credit card.. and sadly,... noone can say "its not at all difficult to get a credit card".... But, LL is not the only business that works like this .. i know... And the problem is also on the side of European banks who make so difficult to get a credit card.. like if they get some sadist pleasure when they say no.... I do understand all troubles and i try to understand even that bad communication of this ToS change ... Maybe it would be better to act against malpractice of lindens in this way. But i am not agree that this must make such a panic. We dont have a proper communication about that case. After ton's of posts is now clear, that TPE's still can work if they work as registred MSB's like www.podex.info for example. And as a company with international customers it would be polite, that LL fullfill the need for paying without CC's. I started now a support ticket for the question why i hv to enter CC' information if i like to set PayPal as payment methode. Because: it is redundant to offer PayPal if u need to cover it by a Credit Card ... As long as TPE's cover this need - as long have LindeX this problem ... even if the TPE's are more expensive than TPE's - some Peeps here cant' understand this - but it will be clear if u recognize that no other way exists ...

Trinity Yazimoto wrote: good find Oberon.. doenst seem to solve the pb however... still asking a credit card from what i ve read.. idk Did u have a happy rezzday? You are exactly one day older than me ....

i tried just www.podex.info and i have now received my lindens :smileyvery-happy: - you can send by SEPA without any fee's. It need 1-2 days..

It is allowed to give inworld anyone some L$ u dont have to give any reason - so i dont see the problem. It is not allowed to trade on exchanges. So if ur friend dont act as business i dont see a problem. ------- As with any legal document, it’s important to read in its entirety before accepting, but we wanted to highlight one of the changes we’ve made in this update: to better protect Second Life users against fraud, the updated Terms of Service make it clear that trading of Linden dollars (L$) on exchanges other than the LindeX, Second Life’s official L$ exchange, is not authorized or allowed.

Hello Pierre Thank you very much for your effort! On JIRA i found now same answer from PayPal to LL Support: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-4338 ---- The reason the account holder is being asked to add a credit card is because Linden Lab does not accept e-checks and this user has no other funding source on the account other than their bank account. If the user would like to set up an agreement they have to add a back up funding source to facilitate instant payment. With digital goods it is a good idea to not accept e-check since products are delivered instantly. E-checks typically take a couple of days to clear so you can run into delivering product and then have the check fail days later after its been used. Because of this PayPal requires that the buyer have a credit card as a backup funding source. The buyer can still pay from their bank but if for any reason the bank payment fails PayPal will charge their credit card. --- I did post it for doing a short meditation about that was is written on that post. What i really dont understand is as follow: I charge the Paypal Account by Banctransfer. I can send without a fee money to the Banc of America in my country, the Partner Banc of PayPal. Then - after few Days 2 or 3 i receive an email, that the Money is arrived and to my disposal. Lets make a short break here. I sent the Money to PayPals Banc and after this critical 48-72 Hours Money is there and to my disposal. PayPal have the Money already -! Next step: I try to by Linden$ throu Lindex for example or other things, probably my long desired premium account. Or the possibillity to upload MESH ))) Now it occurs the case we are discussing ... I need a Backup Payment Method - because if the Money dont arrive, PayPal can charge it there. My question is now: PayPal have the Money already - how can some Money not arrive at Linden Labs of so called 'some reasons'? I dont talk about this 'e-checks' i dont know what this is and dont use it. I really can't see the Problem! THERE IS NO PROBLEM AND NO DANGER NOT RECEIVING MONEY IF IT IS ALREADY ON PAYPAL ACCOUNT! What is PayPal and LindenLab talking about? Maybe there are other reasons to act as they act, but not this communicated one. So it is not necessairy to have a backup Paymen Method. Money cant disapear. And ... to come back to our topic: by TPE's i dont use verifying by Credit Card - i never! used this Backup Payment Methode somewhere else! So - sorry, what the hell are we talking about? Oberon

Hello trinity and pierre, thank you very much for your effort - i found again in my history a thread at JIRA.secondlife.com about similar troubles ... Just post it here, i try to understand it later. https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-4338

Amethyst Jetaime wrote: And if LL were a European company we would all be following your rules. BUT it isn't. It is a US Company and MUST follow US laws. No one is trying to teach you anything. You don't HAVE to be in SL. You choose to be. So whatever rules the US Government sets, will effect you too, like it or not. It is the same as if you came to the US as a tourist. You would have to follow the law here or face the consequences, just as when I am in your country I have to follow your laws. Fairness has nothing to do with it and whining about it would get me no where. This is not my opinion but a fact. If you think that there is no money laundering going on in Europe or even in your country, try googling "European union money laundering" and you get 8,980,000 results. If it never happens there why so many results? Amethist je t'aime peut-être encore ... i recognize that you recognize something like Europe ... Maybe it's possible that u even can recognize that 'the hard way' against customers never works in business world - The so called 'hard way' dont work .... not in Mexico nor in Syria. So please dont say such silly things like: 'eat my sh.. or go home' it would declare you as sh.. maker - and i am sure you are not! And noone there, expect someone in cleveland. It is not your function to speak for US law neither my to speak for EU law. I am not politican or scientist or law maker (maybe you are). I am a customer who likes to buy lindendollar L$, thats fact! And if that fact a company ignore - ok. Say me direct in my face that u think LL is not intersted in money! Then will i laugh, loud out. But i try to say: hey folks there in the paradise ... there is a civilisation at the otherisde of the pond an unknown land! But we drive the same japanes cars and use the same in china assembled iphones. And ofc we breath mostly oxygene. I dont expect that LL change anything as long i can give my money. But i can't! So is my proposition to find a way for the money - is not difficult - i m sure! And if that way means that LL upgrade it's payment modules or work together with TPE's - ok -

... finally - after all that arguments - known or unknowns ... i like only to buy a few lindens to play ... and ofc can linden do what they want - or what they have to do - ok - but finally can i also do what i want - okey? But finally again cant linden do things without customers and customers cant play without LL - in this case. So is Linden not interested that i get mad about that what i spend money (if i can ofc-lol) - the consequence will be that i dont spend more more (if i could ofc lol again). So is LL not totally free and neither me and the law makers not and the chineses not neither the aliens on mars! I can do with my money what i will - and the owner of a company can do the same - but it works only together if there is a communication. at 7/5/13 i found this blog entry: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Featured-News/Updated-Second-Life-Terms-of-Service/ba-p/1996185 --- As with any legal document, it’s important to read in its entirety before accepting, but we wanted to highlight one of the changes we’ve made in this update: to better protect Second Life users against fraud, the updated Terms of Service make it clear that trading of Linden dollars (L$) on exchanges other than the LindeX, Second Life’s official L$ exchange, is not authorized or allowed. --- Why works podex and anshe still?

Xavi Farstrider wrote: because some people cannot use the limited payment methods available on lindex, so buy on TPE's as they offer alot more alternatives especailly for europeans hello - yes it's true i try podex now too. Maye for some people is difficult to understand that we have differnt fee's to pay ... changing from euro in US$, CC fee's, paypal fee's - finally u r money loos 10% fee's - for feeding unnecessairy vampires ... Lindex accept only paypal, CC and US$ - if you dont use CC's not feeding vampires, and if u can change direct and taxfree from euro to L$ u save hard earned money - because - finally the better changing rate of lindex is consumed - in other words - 'lost in transmition' ...

Trinity Yazimoto wrote: just saying :smileyhappy: ... just do it - i will sign in )))

Drake1 Nightfire wrote: This will allow the citizens have to decide for themselves how and where you buy your Linden dollars. Linden dollars are the property of Linden Lab.. They don't have to let you buy them from anyone else. I personally have never bought them from anyone but Linden Lab. Why should i trust my hard earned USD paycheck to a company i don't know? free market economy? And for example - eldex exchange did a total revenue abot 6 billion L$ last years since it were founded - maybe u dont know - and it is your right not to know - but i did trust them i never lost one cent. A open petition is not legally binding - is only a voice ... a wish and - of course - an expectation ...

Madeliefste Oh wrote: I do not support that scammers and copyright infringers can make anonymous account after account and go run with the money. Since LL does not want to limit the number of accounts or lock the door at the front side, it I don't think it is a bad idea to lock the door at the back side I'm not going to sign for compagnies that leave the doors open for scams. I'd rather sign for a better Lindex that doesn't excluded any honest resident in whatever part of the world he lives. hmmm - i am not able to call a service scammers and copyright infringers without any proof - ... and Lindex exclude many people right now .... not in reason they ar unhonest or whatever - only in reason of technical issues - the open petition has already over 1100 signers in no one day and is published on facebook too. I work now with www.pondex.info just the storm settled down. They can give me the service i need. And pls imaging: the people who concerns this change - it is a really bad situation for them!

... Trinity Yazimoto wrote: but pls, let us know.. this could be really useful for pp to know :smileyhappy: ... blowkiss - and the first answer is: http://www.podex.info/ This service still works - even with SEPA transfer (see support page for account nr.) in europe and other payment methods. And i will report about my PP experience

Caitlin Tobias wrote: "The residents in Second Life demand". Err. No. I am a resident too, and I demand nothing. I guess : 'some residents' or 'the residents signing this' would be more accurate. ... true - this would be more accurate - hmmm accurate ... yes yes - maybe the new ToS should be too?