[What is with the constant upgrades??]

On 4/13/2024 at 3:00 PM, Nalates Urriah said:

Inventory size is unlimited. Folder size is sort of restricted by computer and connection speed to about 5,000 items. But you can have as many folders and sub-folders as you want to keep a folder's item count below 5k.

Lag is not caused by inventory size. A really large inventory, like 100K+ items, may cause an almost noticeable delay at login. And large inventory does use a bit more memory. But it is NOT a significant factor in running a viewer. Loading a single texture can use more memory than your inventory.

Thanks for the info, Nalates! When you say 'folder size is sort of restricted by computer and connection speed,' why is that? Do you mean that only approximately 5,000 items will show in a folder at a time?  If there are more than 5K items in a folder, what happens to the rest of them? I do understand how to make folders/subfolders, and do use them. 

[What is with the constant upgrades??]

On 4/13/2024 at 6:24 AM, Jaylinbridges said:

Well,  SL Viewer has already set your performance to Low, to prevent freezing and crashing.  I am not sure what they have changed for memory management. 

This really points back to a problem with your hardware. Overheating, failing drives, or failing motherboard.  All hardware has a lifetime.  Just one single component on a motherboard that is failing, can cause all of your symptoms.  Filter capacitors are the most common, but bad solder joints, cracks in the board, a failing connector, micro corrosion, all can create problems.  And most software peeps have no idea how to diagnose much less fix these faults.  That's why a repair shop will just say, replace your laptop when they can't fix a hardware issue, which would cost more in labor and parts than a new computer.

Probably already suggested by someone here - but you need to put your SL and FS caches on a white list so every file written to your disk cache does not have to be checked by the anti--virus.  That can cause slowdowns and pauses in certain cases.  It's one of those "it can't hurt, even if it makes a small difference in performance" things.  80%(*) of SL users never white list their SL/FS viewer, and they are still here, so...

(*) a WA guess of course

 

Can you explain 'white list' and how to put files on it please? Why is it important to put these caches on a white list?  If I were to invest in a new laptop, what specs would you recommend?  I have no idea what to look for now, since several members have pointed out that the specs that SL has posted are not sufficient 😞 Thank you!

[What is with the constant upgrades??]

10 hours ago, Nalates Urriah said:

No. The Internet browser and SL viewer are separate, independent apps.

You can click a link in a browser and it will open a viewer and cause it to transfer you to the link's target location. But login is handled by the viewer.

If you are in the SL virtual world, not the websites, then you have logged in via a viewer. There is no other way. You have to run the viewer app to see the virtual world.

Inside the viewer you can use the built-in Internet browser or set the viewer to use your Windows' default Internet browser to open web pages from inside the viewer.

Okay- I understand you more now.  Thanks all, for the clarifications 🙂 

[What is with the constant upgrades??]

17 hours ago, Jaylinbridges said:

You download the FS viewer before you can log in, or even install it on Windows.  I thought you said you could log into Firestorm but could not move.  In any  case, I would uninstall any copy of Firestorm you already have on Windows.  Then download it again and install it, but don't log in yet.  You need to Start at a quiet region.  I will look for one to suggest when I have more time. 

Ok either of the regions posted below are fine.  Start FireStorm and at the bottom box that says Start At, click down arrow key and highlight <Type region name> and  enter Voice Echo Canyon, or Tromp in the box.  Then Log In and let your inventory load and your avatar rez.  Depending on your inventory size, you should be able to move your avatar in 30 secs to 5 mins. Then open preferences and make the changes 1. to 5., say OK and log out again.  Log back in at your Home, and see if you can move.  

If you still have a problem you need to do a clean install of FS, and also check your Win11 installation, as @Nalates Urriah suggested above.

One of the changes in preferences will not take effect unless you log out of FS, and then log back in.  A relog.

I take it you are still doing fine using the SL Viewer?  

Ok, thanks!  I will follow your recommendations and use one of the low lag regions you mentioned, to log in.  Thanks for the clarification on relog.  No, not doing fine with the SL official viewer- constant crashing/ screen freezing.  I actually prefer FS- I used it for about 11 years with not many problems at all. Question- how big is too big on your Inventory?  I recall someone telling me a while ago that too many items in Inventory can cause lag problems.  I have been diligently working on clearing out and lowering Inventory items to get back to a manageable amount.

[What is with the constant upgrades??]

On 4/10/2024 at 10:12 AM, Resi Pfeffer said:

Its worth keeping the amount of open tabs in your internet browser to just a few, maybe even not using the browser at all for as long as you test the SL Viewer. 
Browsers like to eat up a lot of memory, especially when a lot of tabs are opened.

Hi Resi- not clear on this. My laptop has Windows 11 (for Home.) I put an SL or FS icon on my start screen and log in that way.  Isn't opening a viewer going through the Microsoft Edge browser (or Safari if I choose that)?

[What is with the constant upgrades??]

On 4/10/2024 at 2:27 AM, Jaylinbridges said:

You have enough RAM (integrated graphics) to run SL in low populated regions.   I already suggested how you can free up Firestorm using less RAM.  Since you gave up on installing FS, you must not have used my settings.  

First, only install FS in a very low lag region, like one of the FS sandboxes or LL empty regions.  Your home location has a dozen stacked multi scene skyboxes you are sharing region resources with.  Depending on who moves there and what they rez, you could have Script lag, Physics lag, and Agent lag from all your neighbors.  So use a quiet empty region to install FS.

A clean FS install is probably needed too, if you last used FS 4 years ago.  You didn't say you did that.

Finally, after a clean install of the latest FS, at an empty region, go to FS Preferences and set Graphics as follows:

1) Set Your Performance to Low on the slider

2) In Graphics/Hardware Settings, Enable (check) Lossy Texture Compression.

3) In Graphics/Rendering, Enable (check) Restrict Maximum texture resolution to 512 px.

4) In Graphics/Rendering, Limit Framerate to FPS of 40.

5) And relog FS to save these settings.

That should help with your underpowered laptop.  I have helped many with laptops like yours, and tuning them down to the bare minimum has allowed them to stay in SL without buying a new computer (for now at least.)

As far as you giving up on FS because you could not move your avatar, that has nothing to do with your prior viewer.  It means FS is still trying to load everything for the first time, and will not enable your AO until the last.  It could also mean it crashed before finishing loading - another sign of too busy a region for the initial install. We also don't know the size and organization of your inventory.  A large and flat inventory can cause all the problems you are having as well.

And finally - the System Info you posted here from the SL Viewer shows they set your Performance to 1 out of 7, or Lowest possible.  That tells you they think your laptop must run an the very bottom of graphics features.   When you run the default Firestorm, it does not tune your Performance to the absolute bottom.  The Beta PBR FS does that, but not the FS Release.  So you need to make the settings above before you can get FS working for you.

BTW, for general information,  I usually run my system at Ultra, and have a mid range gaming system.  When I go to a loaded regions, the Belli 5th anniversary is a good example, my VRAM usage slowly moves up to 6000 MB.  If I use the settings above, and move all over the 4 regions, my VRAM usage maxes out at 650 MB.  So if low memory is your problem, using 650 MB is better than using 6000 MB.  Low memory will thrash and crash you eventually, with plenty of stalls just for fun.

Wow! Thank you so much for all of this info and detailed explanations!  I will try FS again and follow your setting recommendations.  Two questions: 1) I am always logged out of SL before I download a viewer, so not clear on what you mean by going to a low lag region to install?; 2) On point 5, you stated 'And relog FS to save these settings.'  Can you please explain how to do that? I am not a tech-geek, unfortunately 😞  Thanks again!

[What is with the constant upgrades??]

On 4/9/2024 at 2:13 PM, Nalates Urriah said:

@Red52 Everyone is going way tech... Reading your computer specs, your computer is not THAT bad. But it is slow.

So do a simple thing and check if the Windows operating system has problems. Steps:

1. Open a Command Window as Admin- (Instructions for Win 10 and 11)
2. Type in SFC /SCANNOW Press Enter
3. Let it run. Takes a few minutes. It ends saying no problem, fixed problems, or can't fix problems.
   1. If no problems, close the window and use the computer
   2. If problems were fixed, restart the computer and use it.
   3. If 'can't fix', now you need grand-kids help. The fix is to run DISM - but it is complicated.

The SFC (System File Check) will fix a wide range of problems on a Windows machine. Many strange or odd problems are fixed by cleaning up Windows system files.

Once one is confident Windows is not the problem then look else where.

Thank you so much for the information and detailed steps! I will try this, and get help from family members who understand computers if needed 🙂 

 

[What is with the constant upgrades??]

On 4/9/2024 at 2:09 PM, rasterscan said:

Genesis. TPV approved. It's a gem. Developed by the ex singularity crew I read, can't confirm though. Doesn't demand much of the computer. I love it.

Thank you!

[What is with the constant upgrades??]

10 hours ago, Monty Linden said:

Before you spend money, always do the cheap/easy/likely things first.  You can run 'Task Manager' and monitor memory usage while you're using SL.  If memory use isn't near capacity when problems arise, then adding more may not help.  Time to look elsewhere.

Windows' 'Event Viewer' very likely has a record of internal problems leading to your viewer woes.  But this is a tool that devs don't particularly like or use (though they should).  Teaching it is beyond a response in a forum thread.  But if you want to learn how to diagnose problems of any kind, this is where you might start.  It's where a rent-a-nerd will start...

Thank you, Monty! That's my plan before I invest in more memory and/ or replacing my laptop.  I'm trying to learn what I can do to free up RAM before spending (more) money 🙂 Thank you for the info!

 

[What is with the constant upgrades??]

2 hours ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

It will work but will be of no benefit, it will likely be worse. 32 bits means it can only address 4GB of RAM (memory), your laptop has a lot more than that and Second Life would very much like to use it

But yeah you can run 32 bit applications on a 64 bit laptop if you want, there's just no reason to. The compatibility is there for older software.

 

 

Thank you for the clarification, Amelia!  I looked up my RAM and it is currently 12 GB.  I also looked up if I can expand it, and I believe I can up to 20 GB. I researched more and cannot upgrade my graphics card on this laptop, unfortunately.  I will do more to learn what programs/ background processes I can turn off safely, so I (hopefully) won't mess up my computer further 😏

[What is with the constant upgrades??]

On 4/6/2024 at 12:16 PM, Bagnu said:

The present official release of Firestorm is the last one that supports 32 bit.

https://wiki.firestormviewer.org/changelog:firestorm_change_log_6.6.17.70368

Hi Bagnu- my laptop is 64 bit.  I always download the 64 bit viewer because I thought that's what I had to do? Will the 32 bit download work on a 64 bit laptop? Thanks!

[What is with the constant upgrades??]

On 4/6/2024 at 8:05 AM, AmeliaJ08 said:

 

Your CPU also appears to be throttling (slowing down) hard which suggests you are either running on battery power or have a thermal issue, the laptop might well need a good internal clean out and your report of crashes etc. make me think this might be what is wrong. They get very dusty inside and when they do they begin to struggle to cool themselves down and instability can be the result. If you aren't comfortable opening and removing internal components for cleaning etc I would suggest taking it to a repair shop for a service.

Really though you are asking a lot of a laptop that was never designed to run games or SL, it's just too intensive an application for the hardware.

Thank you for all of your help and information, Amelia!  SL with FS ran perfectly fine on this laptop for about a year/ year and a half, when I purchased it about 4 years ago.   I took it in to a repair shop to fix/ update the graphics card about a year ago; I don't recall what they actually did though and continued with FS problems.  That's when I switched to the official SL viewer.  I do understand it may need another clean out, and I will also check into whether I can add more memory as someone else suggested.  I appreciate you trying to help 🙂 

[What is with the constant upgrades??]

19 hours ago, Bagnu said:

FS won't run with a two year old version. They block older versions, and let us know.

I downloaded the newest version of the Firestorm viewer and although I was able to log in and go to my Home setting, my avatar was frozen in a position I had not left it, and would not move.  I tried logging out and back in twice, and the same thing was happening. I deleted FS and am back to using the official SL viewer.

[What is with the constant upgrades??]

1 minute ago, Bagnu said:

Try Firestorm and see what happens. Or any other official third party viewer

I will try to run FS tomorrow and let y'all know what happens.  Are there any other decent third party viewers you would recommend? Thank you!

[What is with the constant upgrades??]

5 minutes ago, JeromFranzic said:

Oh f mee... yeah, you're right, didn't read into it closely enough! Integrated graphics are available in many of their laptop and desktop CPU's, mine has a UHD 630 iGPU in addition to the GTX 1050. 

Brand is an Acer- Aspire 3; Model # N19C2.  Jerom- you referred that the info I posted was from FS.  I am not using FS at the current time; I am using the official SL viewer.  Thanks!

[What is with the constant upgrades??]

5 minutes ago, Bagnu said:

Post your laptop brand and model number. Maybe someone else is running FS with the same one. Then it's easier to sort out if it's hardware or software.

Are you having issues with any other software?

Other than Firestorm not running without error messages (2 years ago), no- no other software problems.  Laptop brand is an Acer-Aspire 3. Model # N19C2.  Thanks!

[What is with the constant upgrades??]

36 minutes ago, JeromFranzic said:

OP, does your laptop have a dedicated GPU? Something like a Nvidia GTX 1050 (the one my laptop runs)... based on your CPU's generation, I'd guess you might have a 1650/1660 or even a RTX 2000 series on it.

Hi Jerom- I don't know how to tell.  I don't understand technology with computers 😞

[What is with the constant upgrades??]

On 3/29/2024 at 8:06 AM, Rowan Amore said:

At the top of the viewer...Help/About Second Life  then Copy to Clipboard the computer info that is displayed and paste that info here.

Hi Rowan- here is the info I found:

Second Life Release 7.1.4.8149792635 (64bit)
Release Notes

You are at 153.1, 95.0, 21.4 in Stepaside located at simhost-0c3d49571ff5c2e10.agni
SLURL: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Stepaside/153/95/21
(global coordinates 286,873.0, 280,927.0, 21.4)
Second Life Server 2024-03-18.8333615376
Release Notes

CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-1035G1 CPU @ 1.00GHz (1190.4 MHz)
Memory: 12078 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows 10/11 64-bit (Build 22631.3374)
Graphics Card Vendor: Intel
Graphics Card: Intel(R) UHD Graphics

Windows Graphics Driver Version: 27.20.100.9079
OpenGL Version: 4.6.0 - Build 27.20.100.9079

Window size: 1600x829
Font Size Adjustment: 96pt
UI Scaling: 1
Draw distance: 32m
Bandwidth: 3000kbit/s
LOD factor: 1.125
Render quality: 1
Texture memory: 5480MB
Disk cache: Max size 1638.4 MB (100.0% used)

J2C Decoder Version: KDU v7.10.4
Audio Driver Version: FMOD Studio 2.02.13
Dullahan: 1.14.0.202310131404
  CEF: 118.4.1+g3dd6078+chromium-118.0.5993.54
  Chromium: 118.0.5993.54
LibVLC Version: 3.0.16
Voice Server Version: Vivox 4.10.0000.32327.5fc3fe7c.399bd0e

Packets Lost: 0/17,944 (0.0%)
April 05 2024 17:16:39

[What is with the constant upgrades??]

On 3/31/2024 at 1:52 PM, Bagnu said:

There has to be an underlying reason for the OP's errors. That's what needs to be found first.  We don't have enough info to even guess at this point.

Hello- here is my information from the SL Viewer: (my apologies to everyone- I have been ill in RL and not able to log in)

Second Life Release 7.1.4.8149792635 (64bit)
Release Notes

You are at 153.1, 95.0, 21.4 in Stepaside located at simhost-0c3d49571ff5c2e10.agni
SLURL: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Stepaside/153/95/21
(global coordinates 286,873.0, 280,927.0, 21.4)
Second Life Server 2024-03-18.8333615376
Release Notes

CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-1035G1 CPU @ 1.00GHz (1190.4 MHz)
Memory: 12078 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows 10/11 64-bit (Build 22631.3374)
Graphics Card Vendor: Intel
Graphics Card: Intel(R) UHD Graphics

Windows Graphics Driver Version: 27.20.100.9079
OpenGL Version: 4.6.0 - Build 27.20.100.9079

Window size: 1600x829
Font Size Adjustment: 96pt
UI Scaling: 1
Draw distance: 32m
Bandwidth: 3000kbit/s
LOD factor: 1.125
Render quality: 1
Texture memory: 5480MB
Disk cache: Max size 1638.4 MB (100.0% used)

J2C Decoder Version: KDU v7.10.4
Audio Driver Version: FMOD Studio 2.02.13
Dullahan: 1.14.0.202310131404
  CEF: 118.4.1+g3dd6078+chromium-118.0.5993.54
  Chromium: 118.0.5993.54
LibVLC Version: 3.0.16
Voice Server Version: Vivox 4.10.0000.32327.5fc3fe7c.399bd0e

Packets Lost: 0/17,944 (0.0%)
April 05 2024 17:16:39

[What is with the constant upgrades??]

On 3/28/2024 at 7:30 AM, AmeliaJ08 said:

Go to Help -> About Second Life (I think that is what it is in the official viewer, the menu item that gives you a window with lots of text details) and copy/paste it all here. That gives us a pretty good idea of all the details we need.

When you say kicked out what do you mean exactly? (do you receive any messages/dialogs/anything?) same as frozen screen, are we talking a crash? is the computer recoverable or is it completely locked up etc?

 

Thank you, Amelia- I will try to find and post the info.  My apologies to everyone; I have been ill and haven't been able to log in. What I mean by 'kicked out' is that my screen freezes and my avatar cannot/ does not respond to keyboard commands at all. Nothing else works by keyboard command either (ie: rezzing, building, etc.)   If I click on the screen during these times, the screen turns white then I get a message saying 'I've been logged out of SL.'  I can only 'recover' my laptop back to regular use if I use 'Control/Alt/Delete to bring up Task Manager, then close SL.

[What is with the constant upgrades??]

On 3/27/2024 at 10:41 AM, Rowan Amore said:

If you are using the SL viewer, you can shut off auto updates in preferences...

Thank you, Rowan! I just changed my Preferences!

[What is with the constant upgrades??]

On 3/27/2024 at 9:44 AM, Bagnu said:

I'm running Firestorm's newest PBR beta on a roughly 4 year old Acer Nitro 5 laptop.. I went through all the Alpha releases, and didn't run into issues like you describe. I didn't have issues with the standard release either. As Kathlen said: "what viewer are you using"?  Do you have problems with any other software? Is your computer very old or low end? 

Hello- I am using the Second Life official viewer.  I used Firestorm for about 11 years with little to no problems, then began getting error messages about two years ago.  I could not find a solution for the FS problems, so switched to the SL official viewer.  My laptop is 3 years old.  How do I tell if it is low-end or not?

Thank you!

[What is with the constant upgrades??]

13 hours ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

Do you mean official viewer? I know it forces upgrades, wasn't aware they were pushing them out that fast though.

Use an alternative viewer that doesn't force upgrade if it's annoying, you certainly don't need to upgrade your hardware every year though... something is clearly wrong. We can help but will need details.

 

 

Yes- I'm using the official SL viewer, and don't like that it forces you to make the upgrade.  I used Firestorm for 11 years and didn't have the same problems with upgrades, plus it gives you a choice to not upgrade for a while.  Upgrades with FS started causing me the same types of problems about 2 years ago, and I could not find a solution.  I am using an Acer laptop and it does meet all the SL requirements for SL play.  I don't understand why sometimes I can be inworld for hours with no problems, then the next day/week I'm getting frozen/ booted out frequently.  What other information do you need to (possibly) help?  Thank you!

[What is with the constant upgrades??]

So frustrated! It seems like there is a new Viewer upload every month; I've had to go through two of them in the past week 😞  Every time there is an upgrade, it takes two-three weeks for me to not get frozen screens/ kicked out/ etc. on a routine basis.  This is completely frustrating and doesn't keep me motivated to continue with SL.  Is there a place to go to get help with these types of problems, for those who aren't tech savvy?  I'm tired of hearing 'you need to get your computer checked/ upgrade your graphics card, etc.'  If I have to get an upgraded graphics card every year, this is not worth it.

[Best Browser for latest version of Firestorm Viewer?]

Non-techie needing help.  Have used Firestorm viewer for 10+ years with little problems.  Updated to most recent version in October this year. At first- no problems.  In past couple of months, Firestorm freezes frequently and/ or starts 'screen glitching', with error message: ' Application has been blocked from accessing graphics hardware.'  Google searched this message and changed browser to Firefox.  Next time it happened, changed something in Settings (can't recall what) and it worked great for a while.  Happening again tonight.  Have tried 'Running as Administrator, Compatibility Troubleshooting- cannot get it to stop screen glitching. Using a Windows laptop with Windows 10.  What is the best browser to use to help?

Thank you!