Vanity Fair

Sigh...the things I do for you people.... okay, here ya go, Vanity Fair as Octomom (by the way, every single one of these babies is 34 prims!):

Yes, that's how I remember it as well. I also seem to remember that Aristotle was asking for verifying information such as credit cards, social insurance numbers, or passport numbers, which apparently CANNOT be used for age verification (and Canadians can complain to the Office of the Canadian Privacy Commissioner is anybody asks for that sort of information solely for the purposes of age verification). Credit card companies are in the credit business, NOT the age verification business. Trying to cover all possibilities and legalities for a global audience is a fool's errand.

On a related note, I wonder if Velour and other (adult) skin makers are prepared that they might have to make new skins for child/teen avatars with the modesty panel, which would be sold separately. I would assume that most teen avatars (i.e. those who present as being under 18) would be using adult skins, right? Obviously, creators like ToodleeDoo would just replace their entire skin line, but where there could be some crossover between child/teen and adult, I could see this happening, right?

There's really no way to get around that. New users who ignore the stated Terms of Service and lie about their age, the onus is on them. Also, people tend to forget that Linden Lab once did implement an age verification system (Aristotle, I think it was called), circa 2007-2013? I believe, and it was widely considered a failure. Let's just hope that we don't go down that road yet again.

Vanity gets to page 31, and notices that this thread now has 41 pages, sighs deeply....

Yes, I wrote about copybotted content on some OpenSim grids on my blog in the past, and I believe that the creator of Maitreya Lara mesh body already knows about the Athena knockoff version, and doesn't want the hassle of trying to police copybotted content on OpenSim (which would be a full-time job). However, you raise an interesting point: that LL could potentially actively check for—and ban—content which clearly goes against the recent updates to the ToS.

Hi @Madi Melodious I no longer have a child alt, BUT I am thinking of writing up an editorial post on my blog where I summarize the latest kerfuffle over the May 2nd ToS changes and their potential impact, and I would very much like to include your automatic teleport attachment when a child avatar visits an Adult rated region. Is this something available via the SL Marketplace, or do people have to seek you out in-world? I'd like to add this to my blogpost, if I can. Thanks! 🙂

Vanity logs in this morning to see the thread is now at page 34, when she was all caught up at page 21 last night. Vanity sighs, pours another large cup of strong black coffee, and braces herself for another day when she never gets out of the community forums... ☕

And THIS is why I have decided to switch my ToodleeDoo avatar to an adult one. In my opinion, even before this most recent round of updates to the ToS which we all have to sign off on (whether we read the whole damn thing or not), I would log in as a child avatar and EVEN THOUGH I WAS DOING NOTHING WRONG, I would constantly be asking myself: "Is this place okay? Am I in trouble simply for being in this region?" Simply put, it was no longer enjoyable for me to stroll the grid as a child avatar. These May 2nd changes were the final straw for me. I give up, and I will no longer have any child avatar. I'm simply choosing not to bother to update her (and I don't even know if I can, since she has a body and skin that are now many years old at this poiint). It's just not worth the hassle to me, when I only logged her in once or twice a year, and lately, I would spend a lot of time feeling that other people are judging me for simply BEING a child avatar. I'm done. I think that eventually, Linden Lab (or whoever takes over from them if they ever sell SL) will have to make a hard choice between allowing child avatars and allowing adult/sexual content. It's a difficult choice, and I'm really glad I don't have to make it. Attached are pictures of my child avatar on May 2nd, and what she looks like today (I switched from the ToodleeDoo head and body, which will be banned as of June 30th since I have no plans to update them, to the LeLutka Noel head and Senra Jamie body). I quite like the new look! And it will give me the opportunity to use her whenever I blog about Senra Jamie clothing on my blog. It's a win-win! However, I really do feel for those people who choose to represent themselves primarily as a child or teen avatar. Even though I 100% agree with Linden Lab's decisions here, I think it's also going to cause some people (like me) to ditch their child avatars completely. Why take the chance to lose your account if somebody AR's you and LL upholds the ban? It's not worth it.

I know, right??!? The struggle is real.

Also, Zooby babies are animesh attachments, and we're talking about avatars in this thread, not attachments. Although if Linden Lab decides to extend the ban to animesh babies (and even static-object babies), that is gonna open up a whole new can of worms.... FUN FACT: Many years ago, one store on the grid mistakenly set a static prim-object baby to free, so I promptly picked up eight, and attached them to my arms, legs, and other parts of my body to create an impromptu Octomom outfit for Vanity Fair. Aaah, the good old days... 😜 I think I saved that outfit somewhere, if I can find a picture I will share it. UPDATE: Okay, found the outfit! Four girls AND four boys! Each of these babies contains 34 prims!!!

Well, I finally reached the end of the thread! Hooray!

Well, some wardrobe systems for sale require RLV, right? I could be wrong, since I never use RLV for anything.

Depends on the jurisdiction, even up here in a Canada. In Ontario yes, but next door in Manitoba, no.

Oh no, not the ass crack, too?!??

Especially if they’ve invested a lot (financially and emotionally) in that avatar. I mean, for me it was an easy decision to replace my child avatar’s head and body with adult versions, because I so rarely used it in recent years. But some people have spent a LOT of time and money on their child avatar!

Yes, I was thinking about this creator, although I couldn’t remember the store name. It is (or at least, it used to be) a mesh body that you could adjust to pretty much any gender or age. i wonder how Rebirth is going to respond to these changes? I’m glad I don’t run such a business! I’d be tearing my hair out.

100%! It’s inevitable. I predict we’re gonna see some epic in-world protests.

This. THIS. I understand the need for these changes, but I suspect many people will read through all this and decide, it’s simply not worth the hassle. And then delete their child avatars or, as I have done, given up and made them adult avatars.

That brings to mind a question I have: can Linden Lab even retroactively remove content from your avatar’s inventory? I’m pretty sure they have to respond if a DMCA request is filed, right? But that might need to be a conversation for another thread. (I still remember that whole florid DMCA saga against the makers of the Genus head, which turned out to be completely without merit and tossed out after much work and cost by the Genus creator.)

HOWEVER, that is not what the FAQ *currently* states. It must be baked-on, unremovable, and clearly a different colour from the skin (if I remember correctly).

Oh, my sweet summer child… you must be new around here 😉

My understanding, from reading the current FAQ, is that BoM underwear isn’t enough; the modesty panels need to be baked-in and unremovable on the body/skin.

And this is EXACTLY why I have now ditched my child avatar. It’s simply not worth the hassle of trying to upgrade an old body/skin.

I’m glad to see someone from Linden Lab here in this thread, and that they are actively updating the FAQ. I think the one change that is probably going to cause the biggest uproar among content creators and child role players is the new rule that child (or child-like) avatars now must have a baked-on modesty layer on their body’s skin. Store owners have two months to make changes. However, I don’t see ToddleeDoo (for example) bothering to update any older versions of their body skins, and there are probably going to be a lot of SL users that remain ignorant of these changes, and still using older versions of child bodies and skins that (according to the FAQ, I just checked) will be in violation of the policy. I have an alt with a ToddleeDoo Kid head and body, which I pull out maybe once or twice a year (I used to use it more often, and in fact I had made arrangements to leave that avatar to someone else in my will). The last time I signed her in was to pick up the free LeLutka Noel head last December. I’m glad I had the foresight to do that, because I’ve decided today that, rather than try and update the skin on that ToddleeDoo body (which is many years old and probably no longer even supported by the store), I’m just gonna ditch the child avatar completely, and make her an adult. In fact, I just did that before signing on to read this thread! No more child avatars for me. I suspect that many people who have little-used child and teen avatars are going to decide to do the same. It’s simply not worth the risk of having that account banned if you are AR-ed for not meeting these new body and skin requirements. i want to make it clear that I agree wholeheartedly with banning child avatars from Adult regions and from places like nude beaches, as well as all the other changes announced today. I’m also somewhat in favour of the baked-on modesty panel idea for child bodies and skins, but it’s going to be a hard sell in certain quarters, I fear. Fun fact: there were running battles for YEARS between content creators and management over at Sansar because ALL skins (even adult ones) had to have baked-on modesty panels! Of course, nobody really cares anymore, because Sansar is limping along on life support, but I wanted to remind everybody that we here in SL should not be complacent about our nudity (and sexual) freedoms! All it would take is a single change of ownership, and all that could change.