Mony Lindman

Hun if you dont understand what SAME PLATFORM means , dont talk .. or at least read the previous posts on this forum to understand ..

Cathy Foil wrote: Imagin Illyar wrote: Ebbe has already said that moving from one world to another would require logging in to a different viewer. This makes sense. The new virtual world is not just an add-on or an upgrade to SL, it really is a completely different new virtual world. It will have "radically improved" avatars. He's also said that nothing from our inventories will be able to be used as is. Items that will be able to go to the new world will have to be reuploaded by the creator after making tweaks for compatibility. It really will be like starting over when we get there, we will be able to keep our names and friend's list but we will have to create a new avatar and use starter clothing and accessories until we buy new ones. I can't wait to see it With all respect to Ebbe he may not be aware that years ago LL did successful experiments with teleporting from one grid to another. These experiments were not made with just teleporting from grids LL solely owned but to other grids owned by other companies and obviously those grids would not be considered an add-on or upgrade to SL but completely separate from SL. Kinda like flying from one country to another on in RL. Yes for those who want to spend a good amount of time in the new world would eventually want to use the radically improved avatars available there. You also have to remember lllyar that plans for the new world are still in the early stages and I am sure nothing is set in stone. My hope is that Ebbe is using the discussions here to gather good information and suggestions about how best to make the new world. The experiments you mention were between different but COMPATIBLE grids that use the same platform, like for instance SL , Inworldz , Avination and others within the OS Grid (Open Sim). And even so it did not really work. An avatar did manage to teleport from one grid to another but without inventory , money balance or identity. Teleporting betwen SL and the new generation of SL will be impossible because these are 2 totally different platforms. However, i think about something else since this "announcement" has been made that puts the life of the old SL in danger.. What if all the teckies would put their brains at work together and find a solution to the problem of teleporting WITHIN the Open Sim! With inventory, money ballance and identity.. It cant be that much of a rocket science.. Then the old Second Life woud be part of an even larger community , where people can move betwen different grids, with different (but convertible) currencies, with different prices for land and services , and would always have their inventory wherever they go so what they buy in one of these grids can be used in any other and what they sell in one of these grids can be sold in any other too.. maybe with a lower price if the land for a shop there is cheaper.. I can even imagine currency trading between the grids.. And I can also imagine "adult only" grids as well as underage only grids.. Since all these grids use the same platform and the same viewers there should be no such problems with porting inventories as we have between SL1 and SL2. And more grids appear all the time and even more will be created when teleporting will be possible and we can even host such a grid on our computer.. that is already possible. Only the teleporting problem must be solved.. In fact this would be really like the REAL WORLD where there are also different countries with diffrent rules, different currencies, different salaries, different prices.. And this world would grow and in this world , Second Life would rule Hey, Oz Linden .. seriously .. what do you think about this maybe only chance to save the old SL?

Whirly Fizzle wrote: Mony Lindman wrote: I wanted to participate in this viewer discussion so i dared to log in today via the last version of the official viewer. For the first time after 2 or 3 years .. at that time i wanted to use it but didnt succed to stay in longer than a few minutes.. it drove me crazy.. Now i am still in it as i write in order to study it but i cant promiss i will stay too long because .. it drives me crazy .. Am I blind or there is no setting where i can tell my head or at least my eyes to no longer follow the mouse? Typical noob question, i know but in this viewer i am noob and in FS i never had this problem. You're not blind. There is no way to do this on the official viewer, not even with a debug setting. Mony Lindman wrote: Am I stupid or is this a bug or.. is this the way it was conceived that in order to wear a new hair i must first detach the old otherwise the function wear acts like add ? But only by attachments .. That's actually a new bug on the latest current release that only surfaced after the AIS3 rolled out to the main grid. Any TPV that has merged and released AIS3 in their viewer will now have the same bug on any region running AIS3. No TPV (apart from maybe CoolVL Viewer) has an AIS3 release out yet so wont have this bug. BUG-6487 - "Wear" Behaves Erratically For Attachments on Same Point Mony Lindman wrote: Am I stupid or are they stupid to not save different login names and passwords although save password is checked and aso the option multiple viewers ? Each time i try it with an alt i must type again the login data and when i go back to my main avatar i must type it again coz it keeps only the last one and doesnt make a list to chose from like "normal" viewers .. The official viewer does not have this feature Mony Lindman wrote: Ah.. and it looks like each alt must set up his viewer preferences coz they are not taken from the avatar that was loged in before.. The official viewer behaves the same as TPV's in this respect and you shouldn't see any difference. Some settings are global and some are per-account only. If you are losing all your setting changes when relogging on an alt you are probably having a silent crash at logout. Mony Lindman wrote: Am I blind or you cant search inventory by creator name ? Not to mention what not evn FS has but would be needed : search by permissions You cannot search by creator name or UUID on the official viewer. It has been requested: VWR-20826 - As a user, I want to be able to search my inventory by Creator Mony Lindman wrote: Am I blind or the button for notifications can not be moved at the bottom of the screen? The official viewer does not have this feature Mony Lindman wrote: I found the "set default upload permissions" but i cant find a place where i can set default permissions for objects i create. Am I blind or .. is it so? This feature actually just got added by one of the opensource contributers - Jonathan Yap. You can find it in the latest Snowstorm-RC viewer http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Release/3.7.11.291465 STORM-68 Allow setting of default permissions on creation of objects, clothing, scripts, notecards, etc. Mony Lindman wrote: Does it really have so little options in Prefernces or am i blind and dont see something on which i could click to get more ? Hum - no, thats all you get :smileylol: Mony Lindman wrote: Is it normal that it loads the inventory again whenever i log in , which in my case , by over 300k items takes ages ? No, this isn't normal unless you are having silent logout crashes. Mony Lindman wrote: And .. really no copy/paste function for object size and rotation values ? The official viewer does not have this feature. It has been requested though. BUG-2256 - Feature Request: Please add Copy/Paste buttons to the Edit window numeric fields for Position/Size/Rotation Mony Lindman wrote: The official viewer takes less.. BUT put a mesh body on and try to edit the shape behind it .. your whole body VIBRATES by each change .. Hmm not sure what's going on there. If the mesh body has joint offsets then its possibly a known bug on the latest AIS3 viewer which breaks your shape in nasty ways That "vibration" is no more but i found a few more things that are not possible: I cant copy/paste worn items I cant copy/paste links The option "paste as link" dosnt exist in the right click menu Right click > edit in inventory on a worn (and full permissions) attachment is not possible - and if that attachment is somehow invisible and/or hidden inside your body you have no way to edit it - and if that attachment is mesh , there is no right click> edit either in inventory or on the mesh itself How do you edit full permission mesh items in this viewer ? Rez them ? OK i understand that this viewer was supposed to be "simple" so that newbies can use it , and a newbie maybe doesn't need to edit mesh by all means or to copy/paste object parameters, but .. why should a newbie not want to copy/paste worn items or links , why should a newbie not be allowed to create links at all, why should a newbie move his head in all directions following the mouse till he gets dizzy ? I really dont get it ... Of course the LL viewer developer team is made of coders who never log into SL and who can only see code, so like in Matrix.. but does this team not have also a leader, someone who tells them what to code and what not ? And should at least this person not login from time to time and compare his in world experience in different viewers? And should this person not have at least minimal skills in "logical thinking".. ?

Think a little... the only reason why we still hear that wondefull sound of money comming in is that most users dont know yet about this sh.. Should we and/or LL start informing everybody (maybe on the login window..) that most of what they buy from now on (not to mention what they already bought) will not be transfered in the new world, then we wont hear that wonderfull sound of mony comming in too often anymore, we will lose money .. and if we lose money , LL loses money .. and if LL loses money guess who gets fired

Gavin Hird wrote: I sell two ranges of products: Skins and Mesh items. We know with 99% certainty that the skins will not transfer. I don't have to inform about that, Linden Lab does! From the ring of it, my meshes will most likely have to be reuploaded and reworked to work. I don't have to inform about that. Linden Lab does! OK but what can I do when I sell animated items and LL does NOT inform if they will port or not ..

I wanted to participate in this viewer discussion so i dared to log in today via the last version of the official viewer. For the first time after 2 or 3 years .. at that time i wanted to use it but didnt succed to stay in longer than a few minutes.. it drove me crazy.. Now i am still in it as i write in order to study it but i cant promiss i will stay too long because .. it drives me crazy .. Am I blind or there is no setting where i can tell my head or at least my eyes to no longer follow the mouse? Typical noob question, i know but in this viewer i am noob and in FS i never had this problem. Am I stupid or is this a bug or.. is this the way it was conceived that in order to wear a new hair i must first detach the old otherwise the function wear acts like add ? But only by attachments .. Am I stupid or are they stupid to not save different login names and passwords although save password is checked and aso the option multiple viewers ? Each time i try it with an alt i must type again the login data and when i go back to my main avatar i must type it again coz it keeps only the last one and doesnt make a list to chose from like "normal" viewers .. Ah.. and it looks like each alt must set up his viewer preferences coz they are not taken from the avatar that was loged in before.. Am I blind or you cant search inventory by creator name ? Not to mention what not evn FS has but would be needed : search by permissions Am I blind or the button for notifications can not be moved at the bottom of the screen? I found the "set default upload permissions" but i cant find a place where i can set default permissions for objects i create. Am I blind or .. is it so? Does it really have so little options in Prefernces or am i blind and dont see something on which i could click to get more ? Is it normal that it loads the inventory again whenever i log in , which in my case , by over 300k items takes ages ? And .. really no copy/paste function for object size and rotation values ? I thought i can use it at least for whenever i wear some fitted mesh because the last FS, that can deal with this takes just too much of my 8 GB of RAM and i need RAM elsewhere. The official viewer takes less.. BUT put a mesh body on and try to edit the shape behind it .. your whole body VIBRATES by each change .. Please tell me that im blind or stupid .. or both and these things are not really meant to be so in the "official SL viewer , last version". Because if its really meant so , how can anybody use it ?

Teager wrote: Ebbe, While catching up on the last 10 or so pages of posts which happened last night, I've noticed a lot of you saying, in essence, "SL1 won't change; if you don't like it, don't switch." I can understand the reason behind that response. I, too, am getting tired of reading dozens of rude comments by the same handful of naysayers. But, speaking as one of many content creators whose full real life income is earned from Second Life, this response isn't helping to build my confidence. Any way you look at it, the launch of SL2 will divide our user base between two virtual worlds. (Possibly four, depending on launch dates of High Fidelity and the Facebook virtual world project.) I believe all that I, and several other creators in this thread, want to convey to you and the SL2 dev team is that we need as much backwards compatibility as we can possibly get between the two grids... because, for us, not switching is not an option. If we don't move forward to the new grid, we divide our income in half. Even when we do switch, we as creators will be slowed by having to format our products for two different worlds. We won't be able to put out items as quickly as we could. My avatar projects require a detailed rigged mesh, dozens of textures, 100+ animations, sounds, scripts, HUD designs, addons, accessories, and third-party creator tools to be made, as well as extensive bug testing. Each of my avatars takes me an average of 10 months to complete (working full time, because SL is my full time job). By the time I complete my next avatar, SL2 will be in beta. By the time I've finished the one after that, SL2 may be approaching its launch date. Will those 20 months of work still be worthwhile when SL2 launches? I'm thrilled to see that custom skeletons are something that have appeared on your roadmap; I'm hopeful that this will allow a lot of re-use of older meshes and animations, and I look forward as well to seeing the improvements that can come as a result of that feature. I'm hopeful that SL2 can grow to be a wonderful thing, and I'm eager to see what you come up with. All I ask is that, as you move forward and lay the groundwork for this new world, you don't fall into the trap of "you don't have to switch if you don't want to". Make us WANT to switch. Make it EASY to switch. And put high priority on maintaining as much backwards compatibility with SL1 as you possibly can. Custom armatures will greatly help with reusing meshes and animations. What can you do to reduce the workload of re-writing scripts? How about textured clothing and skins? The idea posted earlier of allowing some sort of method of matching old SL1 content in users' inventories to new SL2 updated content is a good one. Please make the transition as painless as possible. Don't let yourself become dismayed by the panic; find a way to excite us. Be on our side. Because we, the creators who form the backbone of the virtual world, need to be on your side too. They don't have to be "on our side" nor do we have to be "on their side" coz such sides do not exist ! We are in the SAME BOAT , whereby they may be the boat and we may be the passangers but that makes no difference coz.. if we sink , they sink, if they sink , we sink .. its that simple. This is what they HAVE TO UNDERSTAND, preferably before shooting their own boat (our boat) with heavy torpedos desguised as "anouncements".

Guys.. the problem is not what the CREATORS can do with their own creations, they can do a lot, and they also have those creations on their HD or can bring hem there.. self created items are not a problem. The problem is what the BUILDERS can do with FULL PERMISSION items they bought from creators in order to combine them , re-texture them , script them , etc and create this way new products of which they are the creator but for parts of that product they are not the creator.. Such items can not be saved on HD , neither via Second Inventory nor via Singularity's functions. Should the transfer of these items to the new world require the downlod of these items on HD and re-upload from there, this will not be possibe.. Only LL can do that in a more or less automated way..

Gaia Clary wrote: Mony Lindman wrote: Sir, with answers like this and the one to my previous post, you insult my intelligence. Not to mention yours.. The matter in question is the transfer and the use of present animations IN THE NEW WORLD, not if they work in the old one. I would like to add some related questions: Are the Animations in the current SL extractable in principle ? Will LL give us tools at hand which allow us to extract the raw animation information from SL Gestures and SL Animations and export this data to our local disk ? I guess the animations in the current SL can be exported as .anim files ? Will LL describe the animation format in a way that we can transform the exported data into data conforming to the new system ? Some previous answers gave me the impression that third party tool makers could in principle fill the gap here, provided they get the ability to access the data in which way ever. I believe the biggest problem here is related to license and permission... I also believe that any animation that was created for the current SL Avatar can be migrated to another skeleton provided it is at least similar structured. so in principle i believe that a huge amount of existing animations actually CAN be migrated to any avatar that is based on a human skeleton. Note that regarding SL animations we mostly speak about the 26 SL Base Bones which form a pretty simple base skeleton. attachment point animations might be an issue, and weighted attachment points are imho a corner case as they have never been officially suported by SL. Heh, you have given me a few ideas already where we can possibly chime in when it's time :matte-motes-sunglasses-1: There are 3 different kind of animations in SL: 1 - animations made by animators, uploaded by them in SL and sitting in their inventory. These are as well full permissions as also have the creator's name as creator. And most animators also have them as bvh files on their HD. The animators have many options to move these anims to the new world, including re-upload from their HD and conversion to other formats if needed and if possible. 2 - animations sold with full permissions by some of the animators to builders and sitting in the builder's inventory. These are full permissions but the original creator name appears as creator. The builders can use these anims in their items and resell them but they don't have them as bvh files on their HD nor can they legally bring them there , not even with such tools as Scond Inventory, because this works only for items where the owner is also the creator. And this is not the case for this category. Therefore the builders can also not re-upload them in the new world, because they dont have them on HD. These anims can only be moved by LL to the new world (and if needed, converted) along with the other inventory items that can be moved (if any). 3 - animations with either no copy or no transfer permissions (therefore NOT full perm) sold either by the animators directly , as animations or in scripted balls , or by any of the builders who bought them full perm and now resel them NOT full perm in their builds to normal users and sitting in the user's inventory. And there is nothing that these end users can do themselves to move them in the new world. There should be no copyright or TOS problem for LL to move any of these animations , preserving their permissions as they are to the new world since, as it appears from Ebbe's statement ("TOS should be no problem") the SL2 grid is to be considered as the SAME grid for such matters , so the TOS of the animators to which the builderss are bound and which prohibits the use of the full perm animations in "other grids" would not apply in this case. And the not full permission animations or animated items of the 3rd category should be dealt with in the same way in which any other inventory item will be dealt with. The question however still remains : are these animations in their original format or converted to another format of ANY USE AT ALL in the new world?

Ebbe Linden wrote: Mony Lindman wrote: Yes but the animations I have are paid already, while the new ones I would have to pay again .. These animations are my capital, I invested about 2 million lindens in animations and when I say "invest" I do mean that till now I considered them an investition, a very good one and .. long term .. For me , and for many others who use animations in their builds , the transfer and the use of these animations in the new world is vital. And they will continue to work in SL, which, again, we have no plans to close down. Sir, with answers like this and the one to my previous post, you insult my intelligence. Not to mention yours.. The matter in question is the transfer and the use of present animations IN THE NEW WORLD, not if they work in the old one.

Ebbe Linden wrote: Mony Lindman wrote: thanks.. but .. you say: Animations: Depending on the format that will be used internally and for transport into SL2 it will be no big issue to transfer old animations to the new system provided you play them on legacy avatars (see above). I suspect the transfer format will be either BVH or FBX (and we are capable to convert .bvh and .anim to these formats for that purpose) Also the fact that we will get NPC's will probably make the animators very excited. So i bet that many LSL based animations will be migrated to Bone based animations anyways ... - Well , Ebbe said the format will be FBX but what worries me in fact is that Sylva Petrov who is the most important creator of full permission animations for builders in SL, didn't get a clear YES answer from Ebbe to these quesstions: Sylva Petrov wrote: Okay, I undestand that the format of animations will be changing. However, will their basic use in-world be changed, or will they remain playable assets kept in inventory? I.E. once created, will they be used similarly to how they are currently used in SL or will they be applied in a very different manner. Please Ebbe, any details you can offer on animations would be a massive help in reassuring myself and my customers that we're game on. I don't eactly know yet...TBD .. so, if there is no clear YES to questions like "will they remain playable assets kept in inventory" and "will they be used similarly to how they are currently used in SL or will they be applied in a very different manner" , you will understand that, as a creator of animated items who invested a big amount of money in thousands of full permission animations , i'm worried.. Sylva ensured her customers that she will do all to adapt all animations to the new world and the same licence will be valid in both worlds .. but will it be at all possible to adapt them when not even Ebbe knows if they will be used and applied in the same way or differently ? What if they are related to a "scene", as FBX in fact should be .. and will they work on avatars with customized armatures ? I dont know and Ebbe seems to not know either, so .. you can bet im worried .. i did not state fbx as fact but a direction we're leaning in. Not final. And SL won't change these things so you don't have to worry. Only if you want to make things in the next gen product will you have to learn some new things and do some things differently. It's up to you. grrrrrrrr .. are you sure you didn't work for Radio Erevan before ? Or maybe for Pravda ? Of course i will have to learn new things if i make new things in the new world but i was asking and was worried about IF and HOW the OLD things , in this case ANIMATIONS, will work in the NEW world. When you say "SL won't change these things" what do you call "SL" in this sentence ? The old SL or the new one? If you mean the old , we know that. If you mean the new , plase say so .. And yes i do want to "make things in the next gen product" , the question is if i can use my thousands of full permission animations for which i paid a lot of money, ALSO IN THOSE THINGS that i will want to make in THAT "next gen product". And this question is still NOT answered.

If Philip is doing it at High Fidelity , then it must be doable. I dont think he wants to build a world where all sims would crash every 5 minutes.. I dont know how but there must be a way to solve this problem..

Best solution would be to do it like High Fidelity : sims hosted on the user's computer. Then with the money i save not having to pay tier 1 or 2 months i could buy a kick ass new computer and host a lot of sims on it

Yes but the animations I have are paid already, while the new ones I would have to pay again .. These animations are my capital, I invested about 2 million lindens in animations and when I say "invest" I do mean that till now I considered them an investition, a very good one and .. long term .. For me , and for many others who use animations in their builds , the transfer and the use of these animations in the new world is vital.

Thank you. I hope they will think about all the details .. There are also a lot of full perm animations made by animators who are no longer in SL so they can not make any modifications. And some other animators probably would not know how .. I hope there will be some "tool" to convert these bvh anims to whatever format will be used, or maybe LL could convert them upon moving them.. and then we must only pray that they will fit to all those skeletons..

Medhue Simoni wrote: Sorry Gaia, I just want to add a few points to your well done list here. Prims, Sculpts, Meshes: Some people are assuming that we will still use Land Impact as a measure. I seriously doubt that it will all work the same, as the whole point of Land Impact was to try and match mesh land costs with prims and sculpties. We will no longer have to do that, and I'd be willing to bet that large meshes will not be penalized like they are now in SL. Animations: It's just wrong to think that somehow animation works like other assets. Animation is a somewhat universal asset for games, and converting animation to fit different skeletons is not all that difficult, and there are a number of ways and tools. Sometimes you might use a 3rd party tool, or sometimes it is done in the game engine, like Unity3D. Plus, in almost all motion capture systems, you import the avatar you want the animation to work on, and the mocap system fits it to the avatar you import. You then export that animation right from that avatar's skeleton. Most of the animator that work fulltime animating, aren't going to be rattled by a skeletal change. The animators that only use the simpler tools like Qavimator, will likely get some tools to convert things easily. To make my point about animation a little clearer, I'll give you a good example. I have motion capture that I created that I sell on 5 different platforms, which all use a different skeleton. The same animations, just applied to different skeletons, although, I generally do have to adjust things by hand, a little. Yes, ok but I can not adjust by hand the full perm animations that I bought in SL, after they were converted and moved to the new grid. And even if the creator does this for all customers who bought their anims and we get them in SL2 again.. is it possible for the creator to convert them in such a way that they will fit to all possible skeletons that will be there ?

Magnus Brody wrote: Mony Lindman wrote: ok .. here i go : - Linden Lab gimme a kiss - "TBD but not as is" .. would that sell ? Might need some work. OK .. the poem continues in SL 2 : We can kiss here in the hall aaa .. but there is no poseball ..

thanks.. but .. you say: Animations: Depending on the format that will be used internally and for transport into SL2 it will be no big issue to transfer old animations to the new system provided you play them on legacy avatars (see above). I suspect the transfer format will be either BVH or FBX (and we are capable to convert .bvh and .anim to these formats for that purpose) Also the fact that we will get NPC's will probably make the animators very excited. So i bet that many LSL based animations will be migrated to Bone based animations anyways ... - Well , Ebbe said the format will be FBX but what worries me in fact is that Sylva Petrov who is the most important creator of full permission animations for builders in SL, didn't get a clear YES answer from Ebbe to these quesstions: Sylva Petrov wrote: Okay, I undestand that the format of animations will be changing. However, will their basic use in-world be changed, or will they remain playable assets kept in inventory? I.E. once created, will they be used similarly to how they are currently used in SL or will they be applied in a very different manner. Please Ebbe, any details you can offer on animations would be a massive help in reassuring myself and my customers that we're game on. I don't eactly know yet...TBD .. so, if there is no clear YES to questions like "will they remain playable assets kept in inventory" and "will they be used similarly to how they are currently used in SL or will they be applied in a very different manner" , you will understand that, as a creator of animated items who invested a big amount of money in thousands of full permission animations , i'm worried.. Sylva ensured her customers that she will do all to adapt all animations to the new world and the same licence will be valid in both worlds .. but will it be at all possible to adapt them when not even Ebbe knows if they will be used and applied in the same way or differently ? What if they are related to a "scene", as FBX in fact should be .. and will they work on avatars with customized armatures ? I dont know and Ebbe seems to not know either, so .. you can bet im worried ..

Magnus Brody wrote: Mony Lindman wrote: .. does anybody actualy make a living from selling notecards in SL ? If yes, please teach me, it looks like the only "business model" we can take with us in the new world .. Write poetry. ok .. here i go : - Linden Lab gimme a kiss - "TBD but not as is" .. would that sell ?

Imagin Illyar wrote: Actually he's said that it's not likely that any direct inventory items will be able to be moved to the new grid, but that creators would be able to reupload some items (after tweaking) and redistribute to customers. It isn't game over for anyone unless they decide to move to the new virtual world, which no one is forcing them to do. You do realize this is a whole new virtual world they are building not just an upgrade to SL? Theoretically speaking you are right, both worlds could coexist, but practically .. when the new shiny world will be there, will not most CONSUMERS go there and spend their money in that shiny world ? Mostly the young ones.. And who will still make any advertizing effort to get new users in the old SL when the new shiny one is there ? At this time im not concerned about the success of the new world but about the "termination" of the good old one .. Of course everybody will ALSO go in the new world but, unlike consumers, content creators will have to start their business there from scratch! Some will make it , some will not .. coz not everybody is a Maya guru .. but in any case THIS WORLD .. is in "game over" mode ..

OK so .. let's recap a little ... According to Ebbe's last statements and his thankfully aknowledged answers to my questions , and in spite of his previous statement that "most of our inventory" will be ported, the situation looks in fact like this ( and please Ebbe, do correct me if i'm wrong ) : - "Prims (TBD, but probably not as is)" . What does this mean ? GAME OVER for builders of homes, furniture and anything else made of prims - "Sculpts (TBD, but not as is, but maybe converted to Mesh?)" . What does this mean ? GAME OVER for sculpt makers and for builders who used sculpts in their builds. - "Avatars will be radically improved as well so a lot TBD" . What does this mean ? GAME OVER for skins and shapes creators plus other avatar components that are not mesh. If i understnd right , the avatars in SL 2 will be all MESH avatars , which will most probably wear skins made in highly professional programs like Maja and Co. and to which the present skin templates will not fit. Standard shapes also not. And about system clothes i didn't even dare to ask under these circumstances .. - "Scripts (major improvement, so will change)" . What does this mean ? GAME OVER for scripters and their popular and widely spread systems like Xpose , MLP , Intan , AVsitter , nPose , CasperTech , BSM , (to name only a few) AND for the builders who use such systems in their creations. - "Animations will change (major mprovements as we don't currently do it the way it should be done)" . What does this mean ? GAME OVER for animators and for all content creators who use animations in their products: animated furniture , animated huds , AOs , furnished houses , dances , dance poles , BDSM and bondage animated items, etc. The whole sex industry of SL will be not able to move their assets to the new world ! Because they are made of animations and scripts and BOTH will NOT PORT ! And I dont think I must remind you how important this sector is for the SL economy and how many people live from it.. and in it.. What's the use of saying that adult activities will be allowed in SL 2 when not even a simple sex ball can be ported there. Coz it contains animations and scripts.. So .. whats left? Mesh and textures. Wonderfull.. Oh yea .. and probably also LMs and notecards.. But the LMs you have now will be useless in another world and .. does anybody actualy make a living from selling notecards in SL ? If yes, please teach me, it looks like the only "business model" we can take with us in the new world ..

Ebbe Linden wrote: You will certainly be able keep your identity, social network and L$ and you can hop back and forth and decide for yourself where it makes sense to spend your time and energy. How do you mean this "hop back and forth" move ? In the same viewer ? Teleporting ? Loging off and loging in with another viewer ?

Ebbe Linden wrote: You asked: 1 - What type of assets are more likelly to be transferable to SL2 and what probably not? (meshes, animations, sculpts, scripts, textures, builds made of normal prims, system clothing ?) We don't have all the answers to this one yet, but several areas will have radical improvements and thus not possible to be fully backwards compatible. Mesh is ok (but with better lighting and other tech you may want to make tweaks) Animations will change (major mprovements as we don't currently do it the way it should be done) Sculpts (TBD, but not as is, but maybe converted to Mesh?) Scripts (major improvement, so will change) Textures ok Prims (TBD, but probably not as is) Avatars will be radically improved as well so a lot TBD Again, we will have years to sort this all out together... 2 - Is SL2 to be considerd "another grid" in which case the TOS of most full permission creators would prohibit the transfer to that grid? If that is the case, could LL speak a word of power and decide that for full permission items that CAN be transfered, the new SL should be considered as the "same grid" ? ToS will not be an issue. 3 - Will at least the L$ currency remain the same and will available balances be usable in both worlds? Yes 4 - Will the 2 worlds be connected in any way and will an avatar be able to move from one to another with the same name and profile and groups and friends? And .. some of its inventory.. Identity and friends will be preserved. Inventory depends on above decisions under #1 but we clearly want as much of existing work to be possible to leverage as long as it will not impact how good the new platform can be. Thanks for the answers, Im sure everyone needed them. If possible maybe a few details are still needed.. you say : Sculpts (TBD, but not as is, but maybe converted to Mesh?) Converting to mesh would not be a problem indeed but the advantage of sculpts is that they are only 1 prim each . Meshes have usually more. And in the present SL if i put scripts in a mesh it doubles the Li. Will this be the case also in SL2 ? And as i asked about the TOS i didnt mean the SL TOS but the TOS of the full permission creators who all dont allow the use of their items in other grids. So the question remains: is SL2 "another grid" ? And i also asked at point 4: will an avatar be able to move from one to another (grid)? Your answer to the TOS question sugests that its the same grid but .. how would that work? In the same viewer ? I would need a little more clarity here plase.. Genrally it dosnt look very good for someone like me who spent over 2 million lindens on full perm animations and if i understand well they can not be moved to SL2, nor can they be somehow converted .. This will of course affect all animators and also all builder who make animated items.. Therfore I would be very interested to hear your oppinion about the other possible "option" I just posted (bottom of page 51) Thanks

OK .. there's also another option.. Till now i was thinking in terms of SL2 being a continuation to SL1 and under those circumstances I was (and still am) very worried about the present and the future of SL1 and about the lost of all the values we accumulated here over years ( see my post here : http://community.secondlife.com/t5/General-Discussion-Forum/Linden-Lab-is-building-a-NEW-virtual-world/m-p/2756644#M185270 ) But there is also another way to look at it : a complete CUT OUT betwen SL1 and SL2 ! If it's really so difficult to make SL2 backwards compatible to SL1 , if SL2 will really be so completelly different, so mind blowing and so shiny , then maybe it shouldn't even be related to SL1 at all ! Give it another name , make other rules , other prices , make it main stream, dont even think of porting SL content to it, make it just ANOTHER THING .. which by chance is run by the same company that runs SL.. but no other connection visible. Make it something like IMVU or High Fidelity, make it better, make it something ELSE.. and let it compete with THOSE new worlds on THAT level. BUT DONT MAKE IT COMPETE WITH ITSELF! AND .. in the same time KEEP the old "niche" SL1 AS IS and improve its "nichesness" by enhancing what made it successful, by bringing back what was lost due to wrong, forced and/or desperate decissions and by fixing what made users leave SL in the past ! - IF for instance the new wold will be really "family friendly" and not very much adult ok then .. send all the teenies THERE and enhance the ADULT character of SL1 with NO UNDERAGE USERS around. And forget about "PG regions" .. If young people really think this is a world for "old perverted people" (as it appears from some postings in this thread and as i can also confirm when i see my son logging into SL only like once in a month just to say hi while running for the rest of his free time through the endless WoW forests ) then OK, SO BE IT! If this is really a world for "old perverted people", then let's just accept it and let's .. MAKE IT SO ! I know we can do that. If we are allowed .. And generally SL1 should offer everything that SL2 doesnt! At this time we dont know what SL2 will have to offer but.. we can guess a little .. - IF the new world will cost more money out of pocket (as it appears) then restructure SL1 in such a way that it costs LESS .. - IF the new world will be content creators oriented, make the old one more USERS friendly.. - IF the new world will require high end computers to run and to "shine", reconfigure the old one so that it works on any 10 years old laptop.. - Teach the new users in the welcome area how to use scripted objects , how to edit , how to build.. and not how to run cars over rats.. - Give the new users a few good free skins upon signup , without underwear on same layers so that they dont have to ask allover "how can I undress", give the male newbies a few good free cocks to chose from and to not have to wear that terrible freebie **bleep** allover, and tell all the newbies in the welcome area that in SL they must sit on balls or something else in order to be animated so that they stop sitting on tipjars .. - Bring back the "money trees" and the "camping" which were for all the newbies years ago a serious reason to STAY IN SL! But bring them back ONLY in SL1. I know the arguments against camping but .. these are difficult times, SL fights for survival.. anything goes! And mostly.. anything goes that doesnt go in SL2 ! - We should also not forget that SL1 is more or less compatible with the OS Grid, which probably SL2 won't be. This is a huge advantage IF the problms related to teleporting betwen different grids could be solved. Then we could have a HUGE community in which SL would rule and a lot of new posibilities. Mostly if we also keep an eye on what High Fidelity plans to do with those sims hosted on the user's computer ! Shortly, what i mean to say is , if a smooth and COMPLETE transition from SL1 to SL2 including all inventory, identity, friends, groups, etc is neither possible nor is it wanted, then this move might end in a chaos. A maybe better option, that should be considered, would be to make these 2 words really and clearly SEPARATED. In other words: If you cant join them.. separate them The present compromise "presented" (if i can say so) by Ebbe, according to which.. well.. some things will be moved there , some others won't.. but we don't know what and when and .. why .. and in the end SL dies .. is NOT a solution! It kills SL1 while not being sure if the birth of SL2 will succeed.. Let's not just break the cat in 2 coz that will pain.. Let's just make 1 cat and 1 dog and let them both live as they wish, and as they can. But LET THEM BOTH LIVE !!! And each of us can chose to pet the cat or the dog or.. both. But .. would you really want to pet a "docatog" ? And .. could you ? Mony Lindman

It doesn't have to be full perm! So how you find your whole inventory in the beta grid , so you could also find it in SL2 under the same avatar name .. if LL wants it and if its technically possible. Remember, all belongs to LL anyway so it makes no difference where they put it .