See and Chat with Residents on this Parcel sort of ....

[Innula Zenovka]

Before too long, we should have llGetAgentList, which doesn't have a height limit, as far as I know.   So you could easily check that by script every 30 seconds or so, have it warn anyone who shouldn't be there, and eject (or ban) them if they're still there the next time it checks.    Unless it's a huge parcel, that shouldn't inconvenience flyers too much.

[161488303349]

i think the main driver of the parcel visibility option was Linden Homes - infill housing

the point of banlines is to be able to create an exclusion zone on your parcel. some people use it, some dont. is ok either way

the absence of a Z visibility limit constrained by the banline box isnt a bug. asking for this is a request for a new feature. in this case arguing that something works as intended because thats how it coded is a non-sequiter really. change the code and thats how that works. change it again and thats how it works. change and change and change and it still keeps working as intended

from a coding pov the Z limit of the banline box is already in place. so coding this feature in this way is not a major major. is just another job in the queue that linden will maybe do one day some day if time and resources permits

+

on the principle of privacy

what do you or i actual care that we cant see someone in their own little home and that they cant see us when they choose to close their curtains? what do we actual care that we cant see them when we are standing on their roof or flying over their house? well we dont do we. not really

the homeowners do care they can be seen by people over their roof, when they (like the OP) have chosen not to be seen. thats the only thing that actual matters. their choice to be seen or not seen

if there is a fairly straightforward coding change that can enable a total unseen option in your own home or group-shared shop dressing room then do it

[Solar Legion]

Want a private meeting space? Get a messenger.

Want a place to change your avatar's appearance? You're SOL unless you can set the parcel to hide your avatar.

Problems solved - anything else is a desire to be isolated. 

[Solar Legion]

There isn't such an option - it would require an overhaul of the existing code and a redefinition of parcel spaces. 

[161488303349]

---

Solar Legion wrote:

There isn't such an option - it would require an overhaul of the existing code and a redefinition of parcel spaces. 

---

it doesnt redefine parcel spaces. it redefines the visibilty of avatars enclosed by the banline box when avatar/parcel visibility is turned off and banlines are turned on

+

existing pcode:

sendinfo(avatar) to other avatars on this parcel

if(visibility = on) sendinfo(avatar) to other avatars on adjoining parcels

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ (edit: i put this here to make more clear that is 2 pcode samples)

change pcode to:

if(visibility = on) sendinfo(avatar) to other avatars on this parcel and adjoining parcels

else {

    if (banline = on) sendinfo(avatar) to avatars on this parcel inside the banline box

    else sendinfo(avatar) to avatars on this parcel

}

+

is not a major code overhaul as you can see

 if we did want a major overhaul that did redefine what a parcel is then Z strata would be the way to do it. be able to create a stack of exclusion zones on the Z. to make apartments buildings. tall cities even. which would be way cool but isnt what is being asked for in this case

[Solar Legion]

You don't seem to understand what you're talking about 16, nor do you seem to understand what I am talking about.

Your code definition is exactly how it works, right now, with the impossible addition of excluding those outside the "ban lines" who are still within the boundaries of the parcel!

The feature is coded for the parcel itself, not for individual sections of the parcel.

To recode it otherwise would indeed require a code overhaul - there is no simple way to exclude an avatar which is inside the parcel boundaries from being able to view other avatars on the parcel without a serious overhauling of the parcel, permission and visibility systems.

I'd appreciate it if you did not try to respond to me as if I have never dealt with program code before. 

[161488303349]

when we are chatting about making stuff in code then use algorithm to show how yes. so i did

[Hugsy Penguin]

Look.  The kind of privacy that's being talked about here already exists in SL in a way that affords even more privacy.  On private estates, owners can restrict access which not only keeps avatars out, but their cameras too.  When blocked, you can't see the avatars, their chat, or even the prims that exist there.  I'm sure more people than you think use that feature.

Regarding the specific enhancement to block avatar and chat visibility within the ban line volume on the mainland, where are you getting that this is “impossible”?  A true software engineer, will look for solutions to problems presented by management/customers – not whine about how it can't be done.

..and no, it's not impossible to do.

[161488303349]

---

Eloise Baily wrote:

I think people are meaning two different things here.

To the computery, codey type of person there is no such thing as above or over a parcel, which is true if you look at it within the structure of said parcel.

 

To the avi on the street, above or over a parcel means in the air within said parcel, looking down. There is such a thing as that.

 

---

yes. this is how the OP sees it as well. OP just wanted to know why is some random dude over my house camming me and how is it possible to stop this because the current parcel controls dont prevent this

[Solar Legion]

Hugsy Penguin wrote:

Look.  The kind of privacy that's being talked about here already exists in SL in a way that affords even more privacy.  On private estates, owners can restrict access which not only keeps avatars out, but their cameras too.  When blocked, you can't see the avatars, their chat, or even the prims that exist there.  I'm sure more people than you think use that feature.

Regarding the specific enhancement to block avatar and chat visibility within the ban line volume on the mainland, where are you getting that this is “impossible”?  A true software engineer, will look for solutions to problems presented by management/customers – not whine about how it can't be done.

..and no, it's not impossible to do.

---

You've got some pretty faulty information there Hugsy: There is no such setting to block the visibility of prims on a parcel. You can disable the rendering of avatars to those outside the parcel ... but you cannot disable the rendering of prims using the land settings.

The "kind of privacy" that is being talked about goes above and beyond what is presently in the clients or even the server code. At the time these features were implimented, the only thing which went to the build limit consisted of explicit ban lines (ban lines generated to those actually in the parcel blacklist). All other users could still overfly a parcel. This meant that - gasp! - unless explicitly banned, other avatars could still be seen as "on" the parcel by the server code! 

What has been talked about is altering the server code to distinguish between users who have full access to the parcel and users who only have pass through access and then using that distinction to determine parcel presences prior to sending any data.

Gee - you want more lag Hugsy?

There's nothing wrong with the present system - for the average user, there is more than enough "privacy". Anyone who wants more privacy than that ... can go buy a sim and utterly lock it down.

[Perrie Juran]

For someone to say or think it's just a coding issue is kind of simplistic.

If coding was always so simple we'd all be doing it. 

And the more complex the system is the more complex the coding can be because the more the domino effect comes into play.

Like "true on line status."  There are a number of ways to find out it someone is In World or not because there are other functions that have to know that you are logged in that are viewable to anyone.  And to truly function completely, when you mark your self online your Avatar would need to be made invisible to those you didn't want to know.  Ever run into someone who had marked you offline in a club or elsewhere?

Someone mentioned stopping people from seeing 'prims' that are on your parcel.

Well first you have to set a default behavior and then the exceptions.

Default 1.  No one sees anything on your parcel except those you allow.  Well, SL already looks barren enough as is.  Do you really want to see an empty barren World every where you go?

Default 2.  Everyone sees everything on your parcel except those you disallow.  Can you imagine the Sever load as it tries to segregate who can see what, when and where?

 

So when it comes to Parcel Privacy, my guess is it is a more complex issue to achieve than just a simple bit of coding.  The default is that everyone can see your Avatar and now we have to tell the Sever not to broadcast your image outside of a specific parameter.  That is probably complex enough with out adding any thing more to the equation.

 

[Solar Legion]

---

Perrie Juran wrote:

For someone to say or think it's just a coding issue is kind of simplistic.

If coding was always so simple we'd all be doing it. 

And the more complex the system is the more complex the coding can be because the more the domino effect comes into play.

Like "true on line status."  There are a number of ways to find out it someone is In World or not because there are other functions that have to know that you are logged in that are viewable to anyone.  And to truly function completely, when you mark your self online your Avatar would need to be made invisible to those you didn't want to know.  Ever run into someone who had marked you offline in a club or elsewhere?

Someone mentioned stopping people from seeing 'prims' that are on your parcel.

Well first you have to set a default behavior and then the exceptions.

Default 1.  No one sees anything on your parcel except those you allow.  Well, SL already looks barren enough as is.  Do you really want to see an empty barren World every where you go?

Default 2.  Everyone sees everything on your parcel except those you disallow.  Can you imagine the Sever load as it tries to segregate who can see what, when and where?

 

So when it comes to Parcel Privacy, my guess is it is a more complex issue to achieve than just a simple bit of coding.  The default is that everyone can see your Avatar and now we have to tell the Sever not to broadcast your image outside of a specific parameter.  That is probably complex enough with out adding any thing more to the equation.

 

---

And the Martian gets it!

Thanks Perrie.

[Hugsy Penguin]

---

Solar Legion wrote:

You've got some pretty faulty information there Hugsy: There is no such setting to block the visibility of prims on a parcel. You can disable the rendering of avatars to those outside the parcel ... but you cannot disable the rendering of prims using the land settings.

---

I didn't say there was a setting.  I said "On private estates, owners can restrict access".  I was talking about the same as you when you said at the end of your post "Anyone who wants more privacy than that ... can go buy a sim and utterly lock it down."

---

Solar Legion wrote:

What has been talked about is altering the server code to distinguish between users who have full access to the parcel and users who only have pass through access and then using that distinction to determine parcel presences prior to sending any data.

---

What's being talked about is preventing people outside the ban line volume from seeing the avatar/chat when that option is enabled.  This is not impossible.  Those who actually have access to the code can determine whether you simply need to check Z-coords in some conditionals or if a lag-inducing convoluted mess needs to be added.  If the latter is the case, it's time to clean up the code anyway.  Either way, stopping avatar/chat data from being sent to another avatar is not rocket science.

---

Solar Legion wrote:

Gee - you 

want

more lag Hugsy?

---

Yes.  I always order extra MSG with my Chinese food.  LOL

 

 

[Hugsy Penguin]

---

Perrie Juran wrote:

 

Someone mentioned stopping people from seeing 'prims' that are on your parcel.

 

---

I searched each of the four pages for the word "prim".  I see I'm the first person to use that word.  I did so because I was trying to explain that private estate owners pretty much have complete privacy - they can even stop you from seeing the prims they have rezzed (by way of keeping you out of their sim entirely).

I wasn't suggesting that this was (or should be) a parcel feature.

 

[Solar Legion]

Hugsy Penguin wrote:

---

Solar Legion wrote:

You've got some pretty faulty information there Hugsy: There is no such setting to block the visibility of prims on a parcel. You can disable the rendering of avatars to those outside the parcel ... but you cannot disable the rendering of prims using the land settings.

---

I didn't say there was a setting.  I said "On private estates, owners can restrict access".  I was talking about the same as you when you said at the end of your post "Anyone who wants more privacy than that ... can go buy a sim and utterly lock it down."

---

Solar Legion wrote:

What has been talked about is altering the server code to distinguish between users who have full access to the parcel and users who only have pass through access and then using that distinction to determine parcel presences prior to sending any data.

---

What's being talked about is preventing people outside the ban line volume from seeing the avatar/chat when that option is enabled.  This is not impossible.  Those who actually have access to the code can determine whether you simply need to check Z-coords in some conditionals or if a lag-inducing convoluted mess needs to be added.  If the latter is the case, it's time to clean up the code anyway.  Either way, stopping avatar/chat data from being sent to another avatar is not rocket science.

---

Solar Legion wrote:

Gee - you want more lag Hugsy?

---

Yes.  I always order extra MSG with my Chinese food.  LOL

---

No Hugsy - what is being talked about is alterng the present flagging system - which is parcel based - into a system designed to determine who does and does not have total access to that parcel. Not being able to see/chat with other users on that "parcel" is a setting which - rightly - affects the entire parcel.

If you need more privacy than that, you need to go rent a sim server from Linden Lab.

There isn't any need to add lag into the system by making the server determine who has full access and who has pass-through access for those flags. No, it wouldn't be as simple as adding in a calculation of the Z coordinates. You'd need to be able to tell if the user traveling through the parcel is a part of the land group or not (which it already does when the land is set to group only), then determine height .... and somehow get the system to believe that the user passing through isn't actually 'on'/'in' the parcel!

A recoding job - possibly quite large - all for something that the average user doesn't need or want.

If they're not "on" or "in" the parcel, they don't see the local chat, they don't see the users on that parcel. If they're passing through in the 'air' .... They're still in that lovely little region of server code that denotes that particular parcel! Now they can see and hear if they so desire!

Functioning just as is was intended to function!

[Perrie Juran]

---

Hugsy Penguin wrote:

---

Perrie Juran wrote:

 

Someone mentioned stopping people from seeing 'prims' that are on your parcel.

 

---

I searched each of the four pages for the word "prim".  I see I'm the first person to use that word.  I did so because I was trying to explain that private estate owners pretty much have complete privacy - they can even stop you from seeing the prims they have rezzed (by way of keeping you out of their sim entirely).

I wasn't suggesting that this was (or should be) a parcel feature.

 

---

If the Estate SIM is stand alone correct.  Because I can't get there.

 

BUT if an Estate SIM is connected to another Estate SIM that I have access to, there are no settings to stop me from camming in.  But again if I have no access to the contiguous SIMs, I would not be able to get there.

When you stand at the edge of an Estate SIM and gaze out over the 'sea' that is just a facade, an illusion.  It is standing alone.  There is nothing contiguous with the SIMs you see separated by 'water' on the map.  That is just an illusion.  That water doesn't exist on any server.  If it did you'd be able to sail or fly or swim across to the next Estate.

ETA:  I think more in terms of Main Land.  That is where I have pretty much always lived.