Please Optimize Your Viewer (better yet replace the engine)

[Etalia Cristole]

Please stop screwing around with this Windlight crap.  It's too bad Blue Mars is going Mac only, because at least they had the sense about them to use a MODERN graphics engine, in fact they went right to the top and picked the CryEngine (Crytek) which is what Crysis was made with a few years back.

I have heard several times the excuse that they want their viewer to be available to a broad range of hardware, which is why we have such a pathetic excuse for a graphics engine here in SL.  This is crap, in fact if you actually spent some money on a real graphics engine for your program MORE people would be able to take advantage of Second Life.

I built my PC about a year ago, and while its not the most advanced gaming rig out there, it will give a significant portion of Second Life users a run for their money.  Why is it then that I am getting 10 FPS with visuals that look like they are from the early 2000's? Yes, I have everything graphics wise maxed out, but I should not be getting such poor performance.  It's this garbage Windlight.  I can run Crysis on max everything and get great framerates.  I can run Crysis 2 on max with great framerates.  In fact there is not one single thing I have thrown at this PC which wont run on max settings and get at least 20 FPS with every enhancement turned on both the software and hardware side.

Phenom II X4 555 BE (Unlocked) Overclocked 3.6ghz
GeForce GTX 560 Ti Overclocked
Corsair 4096MB DDR2 SDRAM PC6400 (Gaming Ram - Low Timing/Cas)
GIGABYTE GA-MA785GM-US2H Motherboard
Thermaltake 850-Watt TR2 RX PSU
Windows 7 Ultimate x64

Whats even worse is your garbage viewer refuses to let go of control over handling the graphics load, something that is better suited for my HARDWARE, not your crappy software.  No matter what settings I choose in my graphics card hardware profile, second life always ends up taking over and overriding things.  This has been WELL documented on your website by many people with nVidia cards.  Ironically, I hear its even worse with ATI due to the poor Open GL support by AMD/ATI.  If I force AA/AF in my hardware settings and tell the driver to override Second Life, then turn off AA/AF in your viewer I loose AA/AF.  Its NOT suppose to work that way.  No other application I have ever run has done that, its your garbage programing and this garbage viewer.  Whats worse is all 3rd party viewers are based off this crap and thus suffer from the same problems.

Christ, how much money did LL make last year and why do you refuse to just invest in the future with a real graphics engine; something that is modern, universally used and well supported?  Why are we stuck with this cheep imitation knock off you have created because you refuse to buy a real graphics engine?  Instead of trying to offer me a free couch because I am a premium member, why not invest in something that will actually keep me using Second Life?

There is no reason that a year old PC homegrown, worth almost $1000 (and were talking newegg pricing not inflated retail store like bestbuy), running a top of the line graphics card and high end CPU should be having problems with your viewer.  I can run far better quality, more advanced, more intense graphic related programs with much higher FPS no problem.

Part of the fault is how things are done in second life.  Its true that high prim objects (like hair for example) are more complex then a lot of other methods of drawing avatars.  This however is your own fault.  Because you have chosen to use such a crappy graphics engine, end users are forced to create objects that are way higher prim then they would need to be if you were using a different engine.  To get the quality of visuals in SL you have to work 10x as hard, then if it was designed differently.  For example, in other graphic engines avatar hair does not need to be so complex to get the same graphical eye-candy but in SL it does because of the nature of your viewer and engine.

When are you going to give up on your ancient archaic, fail of a graphics engine and invest in a commercially done, quality engine?  I have watched SL fall apart over the past few years.  My original AV was created in 2007 and since then things have gone down hill.  SL has not kept up with the times and LL refuses to invest in the future unless its on their terms, which has been shown time and time again to be whatever can be cheaply thrown together.

I don't want a damn free virtual couch, I want my very expensive high end PC to run your viewer efficiently, and with the same performance I am getting from modern software titles.  That should not be too much to ask.

Lastly, besides a long standing premium membership, I have also spent considerable money in SL.  If you plan on keeping people who invest in your company around, your going to have to do better then this Windlight crap.  Stop being cheep and go buy a real graphics engine. 

The Cry2 engine is cross platform, works on PC, Mac, Linux, PS3 and 360.  I read somewhere they were working on Android/iOS compatibility too.  CryTek was also able to optimize this new engine to work with lower hardware specs, which is why the Xbox 360 can run the game @60 FPS.  Maybe instead of wasting time and money on your home grown crap, you should invest in that package instead?!

 

EDITED (Because I can't seem to spell "compatibility" correctly)

[Tristizia Demonista]

You do realise, that IF the Cry2 Engine would be used, thousands of users would have a slideshow and not something moving on their screen ?

(And being optimized for a console is just that, optimized for a CONSOLE!!) 

 

[Cincia Singh]

Your logic is flawed; you're comparing apples to oranges. When you play a cryengine game you're mostly playing a game with all graphics pre-loaded on your HDD. It's much easier for a PC to render what are essentially static cached graphics than almost 100% streamed graphics like in SL. I've been to Blue Mars and it's pretty but also static and everyone looks alike and so do the majority of builds. The cryengine is a neat platform but not nearly as flexible and amateur friendly as the SL platform. Nice rant though lol.

[leliel Mirihi]

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Cincia Singh wrote:

Your logic is flawed; you're comparing apples to oranges. When you play a cryengine game you're mostly playing a game with all graphics pre-loaded on your HDD. It's much easier for a PC to render what are essentially static cached graphics than almost 100% streamed graphics like in SL.

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It's really has nothing to do with things being pre loaded and everything to do with the content in games being made by artist that went to school and learned how to make optimized content. Artist that have product managers standing behind them saying no you can't do that due to performance reasons. Where as content in SL is made by hobbyist that don't know and don't care.

[Tristizia Demonista]

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leliel Mirihi wrote:

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It's really has nothing to do with things being pre loaded and everything to do with the content in games being made by artist that went to school and learned how to make optimized content. Artist that have product managers standing behind them saying no you can't do that due to performance reasons. Where as content in SL is made by hobbyist that don't know and don't care.

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Me tries to remember just what the last game ( on the PC) was that was made by professionals who "Optimized for performance" and if, on what kind of Ultra-High-End Machine ! 

....

Nope, can't remember one

[leliel Mirihi]

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Tristizia Demonista wrote:

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leliel Mirihi wrote:

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It's really has nothing to do with things being pre loaded and everything to do with the content in games being made by artist that went to school and learned how to make optimized content. Artist that have product managers standing behind them saying no you can't do that due to performance reasons. Where as content in SL is made by hobbyist that don't know and don't care.

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Me tries to remember just what the last game ( on the PC) was that was made by professionals who "Optimized for performance" and if, on what kind of Ultra-High-End Machine ! 

....

Nope, can't remember one

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Anything made by Valve for starters. But seriously gamers don't use 7 year old laptops with Intel integrated graphics. However more to the point, SL could be faster if content was better optimized.

I'm not blaming anyone for this, I think it's great that your average Joe can just login and start building without having to worry about these things. But we need to have some realistic expectations. SL is a hobbyist platform, we shouldn't expect it to be as polished as a professionally made game.

[Peggy Paperdoll]

I got an idea.  Since you think an optimized viewer would solve the problems you experience in SL then I got news for you.  The viewer code is open sourced..........go get it and "optimize" a viewer for yourself. 

 

Strange, though, that there are many very well qualified coders developing viewers (using that open source code) and they haven't been able to "optimize" a viewer to make SL run as smooth as silk like you expect........my bet is you won't be successful either.  It's not the viewer that needs to be optimized.........it's the content in SL that needs to be optimized.  And, for that to happen, everything would change.  No user created content at all (unless you are "approved" to create content like Blue Mars).  The viewer would have to include millions of textures, scripts, objects, avatars, and the world things like stars, moon, sun, clouds, water, grass, snow, rocks, sand......I can go on and on, but you get the picture)..........and every time something in the world changes you'll have to download all that content all over again.  The SL viewer is (what?) 30 megs now?  Multiply that by a couple thousand to get just part of SL on your machine.  Then you might get your 20 to 30 FPS with ultra settings.........but look at what you are missing.  You're missing SL and playing in someone else's world.  You wouldn't be able to customize your avatar limitlessly, building your home or sky box, race the car you built and scripted..........it would be someone else's avatar customized the way they wanted (not you), someone else's home or skybox pre packaged the way they wanted, race someone else's car limited by the scripts someone else wrote (maybe you want your car to fly). 

 

The only way SL can work is the way it works.  Content cannot be stored on you computer....it has to be stored on remote servers that can be accessed by everyone in SL.  That car you want to drive has be delivered to your monitor by your veiwer requesting it from the servers and the servers, in turn, sending that car to your video adapter to show on your screen.  The games you mentioned do none of that........it's all right there on your hard drive (and a professional created every bit of it for you.......it's optimized too).  What you want is something that is not SL...........go find it.  Quit trying to make SL something it is not and something it was not meant to be and something that it will never be.

[Melissa Yeuxdoux]

People will make better decisions about purchases with more information... how can one find out about the efficiency of a product in SL before committing L$ to it?

Second Life needs something like Underwriters Laboratories--submit your products to them and get approval or not, and display their emblem with approved products.

[IngloriousDecap]

I agree with the sentiment, I love the fact that legacy computers can access SL, its very cool. I hate the lag im fighting all the time: I have had an inspiration... proper caching.... say you have 10 places you really like to hang out.... there should be an option to cache the entire area down to the hard disk, that should hopefully reduce the lag... hard disk space is normally not that much of an issue. So multiple caches for different areas that can be updated for changes or cleared and refreshed as needed. Im noticing that as I turn around it seems to be clear and reloading areas, that is just ridiculous. Buildings dont tend to change that often and can have a lot slower refresh rate than real time.