I returned after years and started an arcade

[Sorina Garrigus]

I recently returned to Second Life and started a video arcade themed place called Grunge Arcade in Taesot on mainland. Years ago I ran a game store called Celestial Game Tower which was the biggest game store in Second Life where I highlighted and promoted many games of all kinds in SL. I hope to do so again but starting pretty much with nothing but my old inventory and picking up some current games. There are some unique games there worth seeing what can be done in SL for games. Canons is a fun solo or two player game in the classic vein of games like Worms on your computer or tablet, some working pinball games using SL Physics. Super Rally a driving game where you try to avoid obstacles and one of the most impressive real time arcade games I seen called Komikaze which is basically an asteroids style arcade game. 

I am looking for ways to hopefully to break even on the Arcade. I am looking for suggestions keeping in mind pay and win options are not an option. I have ad boards and vendors but not many so far. But I mostly want to see people having fun to make it worth while. I hope if this experiment works that I will continue and build a series of locations such as board game rooms  maybe with a board game cafe theme, and a card house location. But all that is pending on how this first one works out. 

Any ideas let me know. I been away from SL for a few years so catching up on a few things. 

[Mollymews]

was having a conversation with Kaleg about this

Kaleg was asking about a game venue where people could play a game of skill against each other, bet on the outcome, and the venue rakes the bet. Say 5% of the pot in the event of a win. Maybe a 1% or even 0% for a draw

total skill games, like chess, checkers, go, multi-player games like chinese checkers, skeet shooting, golf, etc. Games with zero chance element.  Racing games probably not be good, as in any chase the player with the shortest ping time and faster computer has a big advantage

to cover the tier of $US349, then a rake/yield of 5% needs a monthly revenue of at least $US6900. More if raking 0 or 1 on draws

a issue is stranger on stranger play. People will come and play (as they do on current gaming regions) but they want assurances that the stranger they are playing against is not a shill, doesn't have a backdoor into the game

if you could provide such an assurance then it might turn into a nice little earner.  Might not either and you be out $US349 a month

[Sorina Garrigus]

17 hours ago, Mollymews said:

was having a conversation with Kaleg about this

Kaleg was asking about a game venue where people could play a game of skill against each other, bet on the outcome, and the venue rakes the bet. Say 5% of the pot in the event of a win. Maybe a 1% or even 0% for a draw

total skill games, like chess, checkers, go, multi-player games like chinese checkers, skeet shooting, golf, etc. Games with zero chance element.  Racing games probably not be good, as in any chase the player with the shortest ping time and faster computer has a big advantage

to cover the tier of $US349, then a rake/yield of 5% needs a monthly revenue of at least $US6900. More if raking 0 or 1 on draws

a issue is stranger on stranger play. People will come and play (as they do on current gaming regions) but they want assurances that the stranger they are playing against is not a shill, doesn't have a backdoor into the game

if you could provide such an assurance then it might turn into a nice little earner.  Might not either and you be out $US349 a month

Legalities get weird even with games of pure skill like chess. I gets seriously weird when you find out playing Chess for money is not legal in Nevada ... you know ... .home of Los Vegas for crying outloud. So given the wild west days of SL are mostly over (unfortunately) even games of pure skill will have some issues based. Such laws don't have a lot of consistency as this should also apply for sports one would think since they are games of skill as well. People can (as opposed to being allowed to) technically bet on things personally in SL without any official organized events or using scripted devices ... mostly because who is really going to know. 

I am mostly proposing something other than pay to win and have things more advertised based. Games used as traffic devices seem ok in SL and can be found all over.  Or games where you can win but are not paying in. Paying in meaning paying in directly or indirectly ie not trying to use loopholes to get around gambling laws. This is why most gambling laws mention "A thing of value" as opposed to currency winnings. In Japan gambling on games of chance are technically illegal ... but Pachinko is also a massive industry over there. Apparently their loopholes are allowed there but not the case in most places. They also have strange rules clearly put there by game manufacturer where a pachinko game can only be used for so much time before a new one has to take it's place. 

But I think LL should consider refining their rules for games that are of pure chance. Say like Chess tournaments and say a Fortnight kind of battle royale event. Games of that sort might not generate the revenue of what some solo "skill" games will generate. So such a revision would allow for such event based games of pure skill or at least 90% pure skill. I can see some things happening the Fortnight example where say ammo drops and the like would appear in random spawn points. But because such events are not likely to generate the kind of revenue someone running such an event they are less likely to be able to justify the cost of what a standard gaming sim would have. Rules like verification by location for accessibility would still apply as it would for any skill based game though. 

Such a thing could be a nice earner .. .but it would need time to grow. Also maybe sims that are of a such that can handle the robust demand of what some more epic events might have. I can see something as you mentioned as simple race games or Mad Max style races perhaps. Battle Mech sims. 

I am going in small steps currently and trying to go with an ad based system which is free of such issues as long as they are free play. Just trying to find ways to make it pratical. 

[Mollymews]

the only advice I can offer is about leader boards. People who play games competitively, in general, quite like leader boards. Like there Can Be Only One, and in this moment I Am The One

what you could do is, have a Pay to go on the leader board.  If don't pay then don't get your name on the leader board. This could be offered before the game starts. Right-click Pay say L$20. Or if this too much then L$5 or even L$1

the leader boards that I prefer are those that age the players out.  Like the board script keeps the score and time played of the last say 20 players. There are 20 places on the board. When a person pays to go on the board then the game played at the oldest time (regardless of score) is removed, and the player who just played goes on the board in the rank order of their score

so if I got a really bad score then I will be ranked 20 on the board at minimum in return for my payment. Til the next player comes and gets a better score than me. And if they don't beat me then they will be rank 20 and I will be rank 19

and I can only be on the board in one slot.  In this case I have to beat my previous score to move up the board. If I don't then my previous score stands

 

Edited May 22, 2022 by Mollymews
typs

[Sorina Garrigus]

5 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

the only advice I can offer is about leader boards. People who play games competitively, in general, quite like leader boards. Like there Can Be Only One, and in this moment I Am The One

what you could do is, have a Pay to go on the leader board.  If don't pay then don't get your name on the leader board. This could be offered before the game starts. Right-click Pay say L$20. Or if this too much then L$5 or even L$1

the leader boards that I prefer are those that age the players out.  Like the board script keeps the score and time played of the last say 20 players. There are 20 places on the board. When a person pays to go on the board then the game played at the oldest time (regardless of score) is removed, and the player who just played goes on the board in the rank order of their score

so if I got a really bad score then I will be ranked 20 on the board, til the next player comes and gets a better score than me

and I can only be on the board in one slot.  In this case I have to beat my previous score to move up the board. If I don't then my previous score stands

 

Interesting idea ... but based on SL gaming history this likely would have issues. I was there front and center seeing loophole systems come about from the very start which in time ended up with the situation it is now on SL concerning games. I rather not go into details but I think it could potentially turn into a sticky wicket as what I think British people probably say. 

I been around SL long enough when the website use to list different professions you could be in SL, a store owner,  creator a dancer or a casino owner ... obviously that has been long long  gone. I am trying to stay away from things that can even be interpreted as a loophole system. 

[Mollymews]

i can't see how a pay to go on a leaderboard would be an issue.  Is a purchase of a known product. I will be on the board (got what I paid for) regardless of the outcome of the game, or the mechanics of the game, be they chance or otherwise

when gacha, as they were then operated were banned, the miepon machine was made. The creator of miepon showed the machine to Linden, and Linden allowed the miepon as the player knew what product they would get before they paid the machine

in the leaderboard case then we know what we are going to get. A place on the board. Number 20 at least.  We might get better, might even be Number 1

this potential variation is similar to breedables. Like we know that we will get a breedable, same as everyone else. Only the textures may be different and we don;t know what they will be before purchase of breeding food. The perception is tho that Gold is say better than White for example. And this perception is allowed by Linden.  In the leaderboard case the perception is that No. 1 is better than No. 20  

if a game venue operator was to do this then best to run it past Linden beforehand.  Linden would most likely make some ruling inline with those that have already been made with miepon and breedables

as you say tho, is your game venue so the decision is yours to make and I am not try to influence you either way. Just putting the idea out there

[Sorina Garrigus]

18 hours ago, Mollymews said:

i can't see how a pay to go on a leaderboard would be an issue.  Is a purchase of a known product. I will be on the board (got what I paid for) regardless of the outcome of the game, or the mechanics of the game, be they chance or otherwise

when gacha, as they were then operated were banned, the miepon machine was made. The creator of miepon showed the machine to Linden, and Linden allowed the miepon as the player knew what product they would get before they paid the machine

in the leaderboard case then we know what we are going to get. A place on the board. Number 20 at least.  We might get better, might even be Number 1

this potential variation is similar to breedables. Like we know that we will get a breedable, same as everyone else. Only the textures may be different and we don;t know what they will be before purchase of breeding food. The perception is tho that Gold is say better than White for example. And this perception is allowed by Linden.  In the leaderboard case the perception is that No. 1 is better than No. 20  

if a game venue operator was to do this then best to run it past Linden beforehand.  Linden would most likely make some ruling inline with those that have already been made with miepon and breedables

as you say tho, is your game venue so the decision is yours to make and I am not try to influence you either way. Just putting the idea out there

Had to google but googling Gacha, but the reason that would be banned because most gambling laws include wagering or winning a thing of value on a game of chance. So winning a useless cube or a high value avatar skin or a cool vehicle would trigger that if it was challenged. The scoreboard idea though I like the thinking would trigger because it would be seen as an entry fee. Which you could do but it would all still be under various skill game rules. 

[Quistess Alpha]

20 minutes ago, Sorina Garrigus said:

it would all still be under various skill game rules. 

You might want to consider that unless you go through rigorous hoops to get on the list you can't do most of the skill gaming things that ~are allowed.

My takeaway from the last time I went through actually reading the policy was that unless you have a decent startup investment (~1000 USD low-estimate), and can hire a good lawyer, you really ought to leave behind the fantasy of getting close to the line.

Or maybe I'm wrong. If I were looking to start something, My first step would be to select a few of those people at random and ask them how business is doing. maybe some will just tell you to beat it, not wanting to help 'potential competition', but you don't lose much by trying.

[Sorina Garrigus]

13 minutes ago, Quistess Alpha said:

You might want to consider that unless you go through rigorous hoops to get on the list you can't do most of the skill gaming things that ~are allowed.

My takeaway from the last time I went through actually reading the policy was that unless you have a decent startup investment (~1000 USD low-estimate), and can hire a good lawyer, you really ought to leave behind the fantasy of getting close to the line.

Or maybe I'm wrong. If I were looking to start something, My first step would be to select a few of those people at random and ask them how business is doing. maybe some will just tell you to beat it, not wanting to help 'potential competition', but you don't lose much by trying.

For this particular content I am not trying to go down the "skill" game route. I might do that separately or work with a partner. But for the Arcade I am trying to just provide entertainment and give people something to do without losing a bunch of money. Ad boards are one way but they don't work as well as they use to for some reason. 

[Mollymews]

41 minutes ago, Sorina Garrigus said:

The scoreboard idea though I like the thinking would trigger because it would be seen as an entry fee. Which you could do but it would all still be under various skill game rules. 

something that we do sometimes is that we ourselves rule out things that may not be ruled out by the authority.  The miepon and breedables people asked the authority (Linden) for a ruling

if I thought a pay leaderboard was something I might want to provide then I would ask Linden for a ruling. The ruling will be yes or no

if we are not comfortable with doing this, even if we got a yes from Linden, then is best not to do it. Nobody needs angst (even if authorised) that they don't want

[Quistess Alpha]

13 minutes ago, Sorina Garrigus said:

But for the Arcade I am trying to just provide entertainment and give people something to do without losing a bunch of money.

Well, split into cases, money has to come from somewhere, and somewhere can only really be one of

• Yourself; you can try and downsize your land and tier usage as much as possible.
  • Do games need to be rezzed out all the time? a rezzer for a selection of games, would take up as little as 1li, and it's entirely possible to make a single rezzer for every spot in your location (fancy llDetectedTouchPos() and logic to figure out where the user actually wants to rez a thing)
• Participants in the arcade. Ask for donations; Cover fees/pay to play (per game or hourly/daily rate); microtransactions inside the games (legally dubious)
• Other people, add-boards/sponsorships/shops.

[Sorina Garrigus]

1 minute ago, Quistess Alpha said:

Well, split into cases, money has to come from somewhere, and somewhere can only really be one of

• Yourself; you can try and downsize your land and tier usage as much as possible.
  • Do games need to be rezzed out all the time? a rezzer for a selection of games, would take up as little as 1li, and it's entirely possible to make a single rezzer for every spot in your location (fancy llDetectedTouchPos() and logic to figure out where the user actually wants to rez a thing)
• Participants in the arcade. Ask for donations; Cover fees/pay to play (per game or hourly/daily rate); microtransactions inside the games (legally dubious)
• Other people, add-boards/sponsorships/shops.

Got donations and ad boards covered.

I have affiliate vendors but I am trying to see if any of my older affiliate vendors will still work or not. 

My tier isn't that big right now but I thought of rezzer but in many situations it wouldnt work. If the game was modifiable I could in theory put a kill/delete script in it but many are not. 

Currently the people finding my place regularly are gold coin hunt people which that is all they seem to do. 
A lot of this will just take time and growing the brand again. I am just being impatient because I Want to expand and get my board game build up next but can't until the arcade is justified financially. 
 

[Quistess Alpha]

10 minutes ago, Sorina Garrigus said:

I Want to expand and get my board game build up next but can't until the arcade is justified financially. 

Is there any reason you can't combine the two?

[Mollymews]

what else is there

back in the day ages ago 2007 I got involved in helping some people set up 60s style milk bar / coffee shop

back in those days, people would frequent SL coffee shops and sit round and open chat. Chat about all sorts of things. I used to go to them myself, just to hang out

in these settings, same then same today, have to solicit donations, provide adboards, satellite vendors, etc, when unable to meet the whole tier ourselves

so start to think about what could be given in return for a donation. And the owner went with things like a newspaper, tea, coffee, fruit drinks and food.  Sit in the booth, pay the vendor any amount you wanted. Item auto-attach. Drink the drink, eat the food, read the paper, etc

the other thing we put in was a jukebox.  When pay the jukebox (any amount you wanted) it would list songs in the menu dialog. Pick a song and it would go in the jukebox queue, which would be streamed thru the parcel radio. The jukebox communicating with the owner's backend server, streaming thru the radio parcel

was quite interesting who paid for these things.  Like one man came quite regularly and would sit in his fav booth by the window. Buy a coffee, get a newspaper, and put some songs on the stream.  And sometimes engage in the chat, most times not tho. I asked him about it one time, and he said he was retired RL. It was his morning tea time in RL, where he was doing the same thing.  Drinking his coffee, reading his newspaper and he thought it was quite cool that his avatar was doing the same thing with him, at the same time

not sure how this kind of thing would go these days tho. Might still be people from the olden days who remember coffee shops and start going again. Maybe new people as well who just want to interact with others in PG-like setting. Maybe might work out again, dunno tho exactly

 

Edited May 22, 2022 by Mollymews
typs

[Sorina Garrigus]

On 5/22/2022 at 2:55 PM, Mollymews said:

what else is there

back in the day ages ago 2007 I got involved in helping some people set up 60s style milk bar / coffee shop

back in those days, people would frequent SL coffee shops and sit round and open chat. Chat about all sorts of things. I used to go to them myself, just to hang out

in these settings, same then same today, have to solicit donations, provide adboards, satellite vendors, etc, when unable to meet the whole tier ourselves

so start to think about what could be given in return for a donation. And the owner went with things like a newspaper, tea, coffee, fruit drinks and food.  Sit in the booth, pay the vendor any amount you wanted. Item auto-attach. Drink the drink, eat the food, read the paper, etc

the other thing we put in was a jukebox.  When pay the jukebox (any amount you wanted) it would list songs in the menu dialog. Pick a song and it would go in the jukebox queue, which would be streamed thru the parcel radio. The jukebox communicating with the owner's backend server, streaming thru the radio parcel

was quite interesting who paid for these things.  Like one man came quite regularly and would sit in his fav booth by the window. Buy a coffee, get a newspaper, and put some songs on the stream.  And sometimes engage in the chat, most times not tho. I asked him about it one time, and he said he was retired RL. It was his morning tea time in RL, where he was doing the same thing.  Drinking his coffee, reading his newspaper and he thought it was quite cool that his avatar was doing the same thing with him, at the same time

not sure how this kind of thing would go these days tho. Might still be people from the olden days who remember coffee shops and start going again. Maybe new people as well who just want to interact with others in PG-like setting. Maybe might work out again, dunno tho exactly

 

I have a SL printing press that I can make magazines and such. Buying drinks is actually a good idea and a very old school idea actually. They are so old they might just be new again. Before I came to Second life there was a place called "There" which is no long where you were able to buy super fancy drinks. In SL I seen them before but not quite as nice. They would trigger animations and such and make you act drunk and the like. If I get a bit more parcels in my current area I might give some of those ideas a shot. Ties into my RL store kinda which has a board game cafe kind of thing going on but without the food unfortunately but fancy sodas.