Retopology on Second Life, is it worth the time?

[Shrouded Blackheart]

So I've started a project for somebody wanting me to make a few mesh props for them and such... I've been considering using retopology in the creation process but since normal maps are pretty useless (unless you have a good computer) on Second Life then i don't see the point really.

 

Normal maps make up most of the illusion, coupled with ambient occlusion and such but wont it look rather dull without the normal maps?

 

Have any of you, or do any of you, have an example that i could see of retopology used in Second Life and what are your experiences with its use in-world?

 

I guess i just want to put my mind at ease on the matter.

[arton Rotaru]

What would be the other option, instead of using lowpoly, normal mapped meshes? Using the highpoly object in a game engine?

Everything that helps reducing the polycount is worth the effort. There is also no reason not to bake the highpoly details in the diffuse map as well. So that the object would look still good for people who have ALM disabled.

If you just want to make only lowpoly models, without highpoly detail and the like, well depending on what it is, a normal map isn't always necessary. A decent diffuse and specular map can be good enough. Though, talking about specular maps, these are the ones who can make the difference. I really can't imagine going back to a non materials state in SL. Everything looks so much more lively with materials.

I really feel sorry for those who can't enable Advanced Light Model. Although, a lot of those who have it turned off, could easily turn it on, without a big performance hit.

So my answer would be yes, of course it's worth it.

[Ashasekayi Ra]

Arton pretty much said it all.

It's always worth your time to make efficient assets, especially in a game environment. For example, some people bring in high poly, inefficient clothing models from Marvelous Designer without any retopology at all. Besides all the wasted polygons, the items have rendering artifacts caused by the delaunay triangle surface. They also don't animate as smoothly as a properly retopologized version would.

People really do underestimate the performance hit caused by models that are too high poly in SL. As arton pointed out, even if you decide not to use normal maps (which aren't useless by the way), you can still pull off a great amount of detail with a properly made diffuse and specular map.

[MIstahMoose]

I'll just make a comment to the normal maps being useless since the other two took care of the rest.

To add on, the only reason people see materials as useless in second life is because everything is made so inefficiently already that you aren't able to turn up your settings to see the beauty that is norm/spec maps! If everything was made at a proper game setting then you would be amazed at the effects normal maps can make!

[Shrouded Blackheart]

I have worked with a lot of games engines so i know of the benefits but let's face it Second Life doesn't really have the best graphics engine in the world.

 

I always keep an eye on my poly count, I'm used to working low poly but retopology, as you know, gives the illusion of making the low poly look high poly.

 

With SL graphics would it even be possible or would it look like a low poly mesh baked in a high poly model texture?

 

On most games engines, you take away the texture and you can see that it's just really low poly, but with the texture it looks high poly.  I don't want things to have high poly textures yet obviously look like a low poly mesh.

[arton Rotaru]

Certainly, SL graphics aren't the best. However, let's face it, a normal/specular mapped lowpoly mesh can look much better than just a lowpoly mesh with a diffuse map only. There isn't much to argue against materials IMHO.

In the video below I start to remove the maps at around 2:30.

 

Anyway, it's up to you, if you think it's not worth your time, then just don't do it.

[Shrouded Blackheart]

It does look really great but i can't see much difference.  I guess I'll just have to make something and see for myself lol.

[WhiteRabbit0]

For static assets poly count matters... removing unnessecary loops and getting that land impact lower is nice and ( encouraged by the Land impact calculator ).

Ironically the one point where Low poly matters THE MOST... LL didn't think to implement any penalty ( or metric for that matter ) for high poly assets.   PLEASE for the love of all that you hold dear in your life RETOPO RIGGED MESH.  The backbreaking labor that everyone's PC has to do for SL primarily comes from high vertex count rigged meshes.  That is what screws EVERYTHING up in SL, the FPS lag, the viewer crashes, the excruciating load times.  ALL of that comes from too many polygons and too many 1024 textures.

FYI: there are tools that exist out there to convert Normal to AO maps.  Which you can bake into your diffuse.   For me the creation of the normal map actually becomes the foundation for the rest of my texture.  All my items look really convincing w/o materials and then spring to life with it.  And all of them are low poly, low impact.  (I'm still guilty of using too many fancy textures.. working on that part... )