Parcel privacy options not working

[Kenbro Utu]

I have a rented parcel on Zoha Islands, Serenity Cay, and I just discovered today that I am unable to turn off the privacy option that prevents avatars on other parcels seeing avatars on my parcel.  I rarely leave my parcel, and do not know how long this has been happening.  I had a land manager come out to try to help, and they were unable to determine why either.  I mused that perhaps this has to do with a change in the viewer and the servers in preparation for SSB.  I am using Firestorm 4.4.2.  I unchecked and rechecked the option.  The sim was restarted.  Nothing has helped. Has anyone else seen this? The sim is running Second Life Server 13.06.18.277494.  My parcel is a shop, and I hate to think that it looks abandoned all the time... 

[jwenting]

You need the right permissions in the landgroup to access those functions at parcel level if the land is set to a group.

And even then the options can be overridden at region level, where only people with estate management powers can change them.

SSB isn't life on the grid yet (or wasn't by the time you posted this, it should be going life during today's rolling restarts), and even if it were it's unlikely to affect land settings (which I seriously doubt are being worked on in the codebase).

[Kenbro Utu]

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jwenting wrote:

You need the right permissions in the landgroup to access those functions at parcel level if the land is set to a group.

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I have access to the parcel setting.  

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jwenting wrote:

And even then the options can be overridden at region level, where only people with estate management powers can change them.

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I questioned the manager (she is listed as an estate manager) about region level settings that might override parcel settings, and they were unaware that there existed any.  Can you elucidate on that particular setting so that I might direct an estate manager to it?

 

[Perrie Juran]

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Kenbro Utu wrote:

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jwenting wrote:

You need the right permissions in the landgroup to access those functions at parcel level if the land is set to a group.

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I have access to the parcel setting.  

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jwenting wrote:

And even then the options can be overridden at region level, where only people with estate management powers can change them.

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I questioned the manager (she is listed as an estate manager) about region level settings that might override parcel settings, and they were unaware that there existed any.  Can you elucidate on that particular setting so that I might direct an estate manager to it?

 

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See here under Estate Tab heading:

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Estate_Menu

If you enlarge the image it states, "Changes to settings in this tab will affect all regions in the estate.

 

eta typos

[Erik Verity]

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And even then the options can be overridden at region level, where only people with estate management powers can change them.

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This setting does not exist or apply as a region function. It is a setting that applies only to parcels and that is the only place it is set. Also, some settings kind of hint that that works the other way around - resident banning often is only securely done at parcel level and can't be depended on to work at region level. Again, there is no region setting to allow/disallow seeing across parcels (not that I've found).

I would suggest examining your testing methods. I've been able to cam in on objects near the edge of my draw distance, enabling me to see objects next to it since they are no longer outside of camera distance even though I could not see avatars near it. You might want to check with other avatars (more than one) to make sure there is not a viewer setting affecting the one trying to see on your parcel. I'm not sure, but I suspect that sometimes both parcels (the one being viewed into and  the one being viewed from) might need it enabled.

[Kenbro Utu]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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Kenbro Utu wrote:

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jwenting wrote:

You need the right permissions in the landgroup to access those functions at parcel level if the land is set to a group.

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I have access to the parcel setting.  

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jwenting wrote:

And even then the options can be overridden at region level, where only people with estate management powers can change them.

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I questioned the manager (she is listed as an estate manager) about region level settings that might override parcel settings, and they were unaware that there existed any.  Can you elucidate on that particular setting so that I might direct an estate manager to it?

 

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See here under Estate Tab heading:

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Estate_Menu

If you enlarge the image it states, "Changes to settings in this tab will affect all regions in the estate.

 

eta typos

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Yes, but there is no setting on that tab that indicates it has anything to do with parcel privacy settings...

[Kenbro Utu]

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Erik Verity wrote:

I would suggest examining your testing methods. I've been able to cam in on objects near the edge of my draw distance, enabling me to see objects next to it since they are no longer outside of camera distance even though I could not see avatars near it. You might want to check with other avatars (more than one) to make sure there is not a viewer setting affecting the one trying to see on your parcel.

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I know that it happened with 2 independent avatars, one was 50 meters away, the other only 10 meters away.  One was a customer who was standing still.  They disappeared and reappeared as I walked back and forth across the parcel line.  The other was the estate manager, and we reproduced this whether i stayed in my parcel and she walked out, or she stayed in my parcel and I walked out.  

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Erik Verity wrote:

I'm not sure, but I suspect that sometimes both parcels (the one being viewed into and  the one being viewed from) might need it enabled.

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If this is true, then the function is horribly broken and everyone's privacy settings are at the whim of neighboring parcel owners.

[Erik Verity]

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Kenbro Utu wrote:

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If this is true, then the function is horribly broken and everyone's privacy settings are at the whim of neighboring parcel owners.

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I don't see it that way at all (if it's correct). Allowing neighbors to see into your parcel would always require you to allow it whether another parcel allows it or not.

ETA: Again, I'm not positive it works that way, but if it does, the ability should be dually labeled as allowing avatars to see in and OUT FROM this parcel.

[Kenbro Utu]

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Erik Verity wrote:

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Kenbro Utu wrote:

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If this is true, then the function is horribly broken and everyone's privacy settings are at the whim of neighboring parcel owners.

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I don't see it that way at all (

if

it's correct). Allowing neighbors to see into your parcel would always require you to allow it whether another parcel allows it or not.

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Your original statement -- "I'm not sure, but I suspect that sometimes both parcels (the one being viewed into and  the one being viewed from) might need it enabled." -- does not appear to agree with your statement above, so I am confused about your meaning.

 

Allowing neighbors to see into my parcel, if it is to work correctly, should ONLY depend on what I set my parcel to show, and not be dependent on any other parcel's setting in the slightest.  With this in mind, what another parcel has set should not even be in the discussion of why people cannot see into my parcel even though I have it set to do so, unless the function is completely broken. 

 

Perhaps it is only broken for my particular sim, but nonetheless it is broken if I cannot change it and there is no overriding function in estate tools to explain why I cannot.  

 

I believe, as no one else seems to have experienced this phenomenon, my only recourse is to wait for SSA (as it seems to be called now) roll out to my sim, and then get the estate owner to escalate with a ticket to LL if it still does not function properly.

 

[Erik Verity]

Again - IF it works that way - and I still am not sure it does nor able to test it with others anytime soon, it still would have nothing to do with actually limiting your own privacy settings. It would only allow what is possible for avatars to do while on your parcel or whether anyone on your parcel could be seen from outside.

That would mean avatars can see in your parcel if you allow it - but only from a parcel that allows the same. It really does not make a lot of sense to me for it to work this way, I am only suspecting it. But if it does, it still takes no control away from your own privacy whatsoever. Not even the slightest.

ETA: Think of it as an invisble barrier around your parcel that can either be seen through or not. Your neighbor can keep theirs up and no one would be able to see through it (in or out). You being able to control their barrier would be the violation.

 

[Kenbro Utu]

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Erik Verity wrote:

ETA: Think of it as an invisble barrier around your parcel that can either be seen through or not. Your neighbor can keep theirs up and no one would be able to see through it (in or out). You being able to control their barrier would be the violation.

 

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Here is where you are straying from the concept, and this thinking is false.  The option in the parcel settings states: "Avatars on other parcels can see and chat with avatars on this parcel."  This statement is either true or false.  There is nothing you can set on your parcel that affects what is seen in other parcels. 

[Erik Verity]

That's why I said if it does work that way, the setting should be re-worded to reflect it. The way it is worded is still wrong anyway just because it suggests that you can control abilities of avatars outside your parcel, when in reality you can only control abilities of those within your parcel, and the visibility on your own parcel to those who otherwise have the ability to see.