Looking to buy a new computer for SL photography - help please?

[Sasuiko]

Hi Everyone,

I am new to SL and just started to really get into it recently. I am finding that I like taking pictures in world and would like to get into RP at some point. At the moment though, I am using a laptop, which for the most part works well but I am starting to have issues with crashes whenever I enter a SIM with lots of people (which presumably will mean RP would not be possible). It varies but i have been lagging quite badly. Because its an old lappy, i am finding that the quality of my sl images are also not very good.

 

SO. I am looking to get a new computer this weekend (its time for a change). I just don't know what to look for since there are so many theories on what to get. I'd like first hand suggestions from you guys, who really are into photography and RP etc. 

could i please have some suggestions or advice on specs to look for if I wanted:

1) Decent computer that would fare well 

2) The most ideal, high end, cream of the crop specs (one can dream right!)

 

I think I'll be considering desktops ^.^

 

Thank you in advance for alllllll your help!

[Peggy Paperdoll]

You didn't say what the budget is and even mentioned "cream of the crop".  Well, I'm not one to tell any body that a computer needs to be the cream of the crop for an excellent experience (you need a good system.......even a very good system.......but not the "best" system money can buy).  I won't go into my thinking on that subject but I wanted to point it out so that you might understand a little better why the computer I customized as an example of what you seem to be wanting and the hardware necessary for such a system is what I put together.  I did not include a monitor but you can get a very good 23 inch LCD monitor at almost any electronics store for under $200 USD........and online stores are really not any less expensive (Best Buy will have a good selection or, if want to shop online, Newegg.com or TigerDirect.com are good places to look).  I selected Windows 7 x64 with Service Pack 1...fully installed (all you have to do is activate it just like any HP or Gateway computer you might buy from a retail shop (Windows 8 just appears to me to be another Windows Millennium or Vista....I stuck with an operating system that I have 100% confidence in)

The site I've used in the past is Magic Micro.  I've had very good service from them.........I've purchased a total of 3 custom computers over the last 5 or 6 years from them.

http://www.magicmicro.com/?gclid=CK2qxrbe47ICFdGizAodRk0Amw

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	Your price:  $1378.00
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CURRENT CONFIGURATION   PARTS : CPU : Intel I7 Sandy Bridge-E CPUs   Intel Core i7-3820 Sandy Bridge-E 3.6GHz (3.8GHz Turbo Boost) Quad Core Processor   PARTS : Cooling Fans : Intel i7 LGA 2011 CPU Fans   Coolermaster Hyper 212 EVO, 4 Copper Heat Pipes, Dual Cooler CPU fan   PARTS : Motherboards : Intel i7 X79 ATX Motherboards   Intel DX79TO, SLI & X-Fire, SATA3, USB 3.0, GB LAN, IEEE, HD Audio   PARTS : Memory : DDR3 Quad Channel memory   16GB (4x4GB) PC14900 DDR3 1866 Quad Channel  (high performance memory)   PARTS : Video & TV Cards : PCI-Express Video cards   GeForce GTX 660 2GB PCI EXpress 16X  Quad head, HDMI   PARTS : Video & TV Cards : PCI-Express Video cards   NONE SELECTED   PARTS : Video & TV Cards : TV Tuner & Capture cards   NONE SELECTED   PARTS : Hard Drives   500.0 GB Western Digital Blue 7200RPM SATA3 6GB/s 16m cache   PARTS : Cooling Fans : Hard Drive Fans   NONE SELECTED   PARTS : Hard Drives   NONE SELECTED   PARTS : Cooling Fans : Hard Drive Fans   2nd Hard drive Fan NONE SELECTED   PARTS : CD/DVD/R/RW Drives : DVD Recorders   LG 22x DVD Recorder Dual Layer +R/RW -R/RW   PARTS : CD/DVD/R/RW Drives : DVD Recorders   NONE SELECTED   PARTS : Media Card Readers   All-in-One Memory Card Reader Internal Black   PARTS : Sound Cards   Realtek HD digital audio (onboard)   PARTS : Modems   NONE SELECTED   PARTS : Networking : Network Cards   Ethernet network adapter (onboard)   PARTS : Controller Cards   NONE SELECTED   PARTS : Cases / Power Supplies : Cases   Cooler Master Elite 350 black , front USB   PARTS : Cooling Fans : Case Fans   Dual Case Fans 120 mm Extra Quiet DC fan (two fans)   PARTS : Cooling Fans : Power Supply   Thermaltake TR2 600W ultra quiet ATX Power Supply, SLI & X-fire ready   PARTS : Keyboards   Microsoft Wired Desktop 400 Keyboard & Optical mouse combo   PARTS : Mice   NONE SELECTED   PARTS : Speakers   Black Multimedia amplified stereo speakers   SOFTWARE : Operating Systems   Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit DVD w/SP1   SOFTWARE : Office Software   NONE SELECTED   PARTS : Monitors   NONE SELECTED   PARTS : Assembly and Test   Standard assembly and test 3-5 business days

[Sasuiko]

Hi Peggy, thank you so much for all the info I had a budget in mind of around 1K ++, I'm not very tech savvy so I didn't want to just go buy something that was pretty average and pay a ridiculous amount for it. So when I said cream of the crop, that was just me being idealistic, hoping that something awesome could fit in my budget. LOL I also wanted to do a comparison, between the specs of a decent machine that could run SL well... and an awesome kick ass machine that would give me no lag, no crashes, good image resolutions for photography and machinima. 

Unfortunately I don't live in the US, so I had to go looking around for a desktop. I saw a few on promotion around 1.5K here, but I didn't know if it was good or bad. Then I found a place that could do a custom build for me, but then I also didn't know what I would require. So it is helpful to just get some specs together to give to them and they can send me a quote.

Here are the specs of what i saw in stores and what was recommended to me:

Option 1:

HP Pavillion Slimline s5-1430d PC

3rd Gen Intel Core i5-3480 Processor (3.2 GHz)

Windows 8

4GB DDR3, 500 GB HDD

NVidia GeForce GT620, 1 GB

 

Option 2:

HP Pavilion Slimline s5-1450d PC

3rd Gen Intel Core i5-3470 Processor (3.2 GHz)

Windows 8

4GB DDR3, 1 TB HDD

Nvidia GeForce GT 630, 2 GB

 

Option 3:

HP Envy h8 - 1480d PC

3rd Gen Intel Core i5 -3570 processor (3.4GHz)

Windows 8

4GB DDR3, 1 TB HDD

Nvidia GeForce  GT640, 3GB

 

Option 4:

ACER Predator G3620 (i347MR81T)

3rd gen intel core i5-3470 Processor (3.2GHz, 1333MHz FSB, 6MB L3 cache)

Windows 8

Nvidia GeForce GT 630, 2GB DDR3 RAM

8GB RAM, 1TB HDD

Wireless 802.11b/g/n

Wireless keyboard + Mouse

23" Full HD Monitor & LED technology.

 

Do any of these look good to you? Cos I have no idea what a lot of those terminology means. ^.^  

 

Thanks for your help!

 

[Jean Horten]

None of these mentioned computers will allow you to run SL in high/ultra graphics, as they all come with office graphcs cards. Whenever I buy a new computer, I rather focus on getting high end hardware so I don't have to upgrade hardware again after a year.

My proposal:

Go to a small computer store in or close to your hometown, ask them to set up a machine with at least a nVidia GTX 650 TI or something higher, a nice cpu ( i5 or i7, or maybe an AMD FX 8150/8350), Windows 7 64 bit instead of Win 8 which is much less usable and approx 50% more expensive than Win 7), no office solution ( there are  free office solutions available, no need to burn money on MS Office or, burn more money on renting Office 365 .

If you already own a Win 7 License, you can even buy without operating system/office solution and put your existing OS on it, save even more money and get an even more powerful Graphics card  (nVidia 670/680, avoid AMD/ATI cards).

(Ever considered to switch to Linux?)

Buying at a local smaller shop usually has got the advantage of  getting friendly personal service in your neighborhood instead of having to deal with bored supporters  in anonymous call centers of large distributors in case there's a problem,  plus: You don't have to put your machine into a box and have it shipped to that large distributor's anonymous service center and wait weeks to get it back without really knowing what's going on 'there'.

When it comes to computer brands: A computer is no car,  it's irrelevant who 'made' it , all that counts is inside the shiny HP, Acer or whatever labelled case...)

J.

[Orca Flotta]

100% agree.

We all should copypaste your post as a standard  answer for anyone asking for advice on new computers!

 

Having my rig made by a small local store was the best decision ever. The guy was so nice and walked with me through the part shelves and told me exactly why he chose particular items. Was a  bit like so:

Mobo: Gigabyte!!! All that Asus, Asrock, MSI stuff is just cheapo overpriced riffraff he told me. "You don't need a "gaming" mobo, but a good stable one that won't give you grief."

GPU: Zotac GTX260. The 4xx series was brandnew on the market and just too expensive. The 260 still works fine in SL on ultra settings. I could have gotten a much newer and more powerful ATI card for the same price but the sales guy and  I just looked at each other, shrugged and simultaneously muttered "naaaw". Nvidia is always a safe bet, as long as it says GTX.

RAM: 8 GB of no-name 1333. Still works fine today

PSU: locally produced 750 watt, cheaper and not  a single problem yet

CPU: i5 650 is still super and plenty enough for SL and everything else I throw at it

HD: 1 TB Texas Instruments I guess. Works fine. I keep my important data backupped on external drives anyway

Case: just some giant big ugly box with lots of holes in for better cooling. No additional fans needed. It sits under my desk so it doesn't need to look fancy anyway

OS: Win7 64 bit Home Premium, system builder version

Then he sent me off. "Go shopping, have a coffee and come back in 2 hours."

So, like 3 hours later, and with a cute new top in my shopping bag, I came back and received my machine. We did a short power-up test on the spot and one of the guys even carried it to the car for me.

 

My machine runs SL and a lot of other stuff 24/7/365 since 3 years now. I hardly ever shut it down and it just runs and runs and runs. No crashes, neither on Win7 nor on Linux Mint. Apart from the Win 7 I don't have any commercial software installed ... at all. Every 3 months I pull the power plug, open the case and clean the internals thoroughly. Was it any cool or bragworthy for even a second? No, not even in 2010. Was it exceptionally cheap? No. I could have gotten a similar but more sexy system a few bucks cheaper from mailorder. But I wouldn't have had that freedom to chose exactly the right parts and prolly wasted money on unneeded stuff. My system is a good, stable workhorse with plenty power under the hood. And it's still as fast and uncluttered as on the day I bought it. Some system maintenance is required (friggin' Windows can't take care of itself)  to keep it fresh but I have that quasi automated with a free version of TuneUp Utilities.

[Orca Flotta]

Unfortunately I don't live in the US ...

Unfortunately?

Really? Unfortunately???

Apart from the usual stress US citizens have, they need to go looking around for a desktop same as everyone else. They might have a birthright on super cheap petrol but they still need to look for computer stuff by themself. And, right, it's cheaper there but they usualy have less income/buying power than most EU citizens.

Then I found a place that could do a custom build for me, but then I also didn't know what I would require.

Cool. Problem solved. Just go into that shop, look cute but competent and ask them for a "no bull**bleep**" system, a "stable, ruggged" system, optimized for light gaming on Open GL. Maybe mention SL, there's no reason to be ashamed of it. If they are any good they will recommend a Nvidia GPU anyway. If not ask them to spin on your finger ... and run! :smileysurprised: Nvidia (resp any of their  board partners) are delivering the goods. Just insist on a GTX, don't settle for a GT. Rule of thumb: the higher the number the more sexy is your gpu. 680 is better than 650, savvy?

All other parts aren't as important. Modern CPUs are mostly bored to tears in our PCs anyway, so settle for a i5 and don't let them waste your dough on a i7.

A beefy power supply should be coming automatically as soon  as you mention your need for a dedicated graphics card.

Maybe a SSD would be cool ... but one can live without.

RAM is cheap these days so get at least 8 GB, the more the better.

Most important: don't fall for all those hyped up GAMING products with spectacular specs. SL demands a system with good graphics but not much computing power as such. Don't let them talk you into watercooling, twin GPUs, the advancement of the newest RAM bars and other voodoo stuff. Quality is more important than the bestest specs. Fingers off dramatically overclocked **bleep**. All the gamers stuff has a lifespan of 3 months, you don't want that.

[Peggy Paperdoll]

I didn't know that you were not located in the US which is why to listed a "dream machine" (sort of anyway) customized by an online computer shop.  I find it hard to believe that such shops don't exist in Europe or Australia (I say that because your English is very much "American" and not Asian or Slovak.....you posted very much like an American.  I apologize if any offense was taken on your part.  I also didn't know your budget.  Had I known, I know I could find an equally powerful machine for the $1000 USD or less.  My point was, and remains, that you can get a very good computer for a very good price.........but, that becomes extremely difficult if you start off with an "off the shelf" computer (HP, Acer, Gateway, Sony, Lenovo...........you name it).  An off the shelf computer puts you in a box.  You get what the manufacturer offers (yeah they give you a limited choice of "upgrades" but, again, it's their choice and not yours).  Manufacturers will always put hardware in the computer that is cheapest for them yet charge you as if it's the best available.  They also will put hardware in the computer that barely meets the minimum..........or parse words about specs.  For instance, most higher end graphics cards require 400 to 450 watt power supplies.....they will install the bare minimum to keep the warranty valid.  That puts it on you to also upgrade the power supply if you decide to put something else in the computer at a later date......and they never mention that in their sales pitch to you. 

As has been mentioned, if you can't do an online deal then the next best way is to do the local (probably small) shop thing.  Make sure they are reputable (most are.........I'd argue more so than the major computer shops even).  What you want is a video card at or above mid-range  in performance (above mid-range is better, of course).  I'm an NVidia fan so would say a card with the second number in the model number of 5 or better (the first number is the series and not nearly as important as the second number (a 3 generation, or series, old card is good).  The current newest series for NVidia is 700........a 400 series card is very good and much cheaper.  A GTX 450 is the minimum I would put in a computer for SL........and a480 is excellent (and very reasonable in price).  You want as much system memory (RAM) as you can afford (even up the maximum your motherboard will handle)  I agree that 8 GB  of RAM is about as low as you want for SL (though 4 GB will work........there is no such thing as too much RAM).  The CPU is not all that important if it's a recent series (not older than a Core2 Quad for Intel.........I'm not familiar with AMD so I don't know the equivalent series).  A Core2 Quad is 4 series back for the Intel CPU's and can be had quite cheaply.  However there is a caveat.........the motherboards that work for Core2 Quads probably don't have the later generation PCI express expansion slots that are necessary for the newer video cards that you would want for SL (the PCI express slots will work on those boards but your card will not perform anywhere near it's designed capacity)  I say stick if the "I" series.  Either the i3, i5 or i7......the clock speed is unimportant since even the slowest speed is many times more than SL needs (1.5 MHZ is plenty fast enough and any of the "I" series CPU's are over 2.5 MHZ). 

What I look for on a motherboard is the expansion slots (at least 1 PCI express x16 slot)..........at least 4 total (up to 8).  The motherboard's RAM capacity (some have a capacity of 8 GB, some up to 32 GB).  Look for a capacity of, at least, 16 GB for room to upgrade as necessary.  I look for onboard LAN (Ethernet) and onboard audio........it's nice to have the onboard video too in case something happens to your discrete card and you need video to be able to use your computer while you get the card repaired or replaced.  The only thing I caution about going with an off brand motherboard is support and warranty...........I always stick if the name brands (but which name brand is kind of unimportant.........I like Asus, MCI, Intel, and Gigabyte (but that's merely my personal preference).

Fans.  I'm going to dispute another poster who shrugged off fans by implying they are unimportant.  Any computer generates heat (heat inside the case).  The higher performing computers generate more heat than a low performance machine.  Heat kills computer hardware components.  The price of 2 120 mm fans is under $30 USD.......I would never put a computer together without, at least, 2 case fans (my thinking is that it's just plain stupid to do so).  And speaking for fans.  Your CPU needs a "CPU fan".  It's a fan mounted directly on the CPU to keep it cool......you get one on any computer you buy.  But the CPU fans manufacturers install are the bare minimum necessary for casual use........SL (and many other programs) put more stress on a CPU than just web surfing or emailing.  Get a good one.......more than necessary but, again, it's cheap insurance (they, too are not expensive).  I agree with whoever said stay away from liquid cooled.....it's a total rip off.

Now for the final "must have".  Get a good, high wattage power supply.  I mentioned that most high end graphics cards require about 400 watts.  Don't get a 400 watt PS.  Get, at least, a 600 watt one.  My rule of thumb is to calculate that your computer needs for all the hardware that is installed and add another 50% (that's the minimum).  The video card will be the biggest single consumer of power but all the other stuff uses power too.  You want enough for your power supply to easily supply all the needs and not be maxed out by doing so.  Since the video card is wanting 400 watts (the card manufacturers will recommend a slightly higher PS than what the card really needs to take in account for other hardware in a typical computer), go 50% above that.....which is 600 watts.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with getting more than you need (like RAM, there is no such thing as too much power in a power supply).  Power supplies are relatively inexpensive and, if not running at or near max capacity, they will out last 4 to 6 computers.  Transferring a PS from one computer to another is a very easy thing to do.  The Antec 650 watt PS in the computer I'm using right now (to post this post) has been in 4 other computers........and there is not reason to believe it won't be in another before it finally gets retired. 

I hope this helps you a little more...........and what others have said too.  There has been a wealth of information given by everyone in this thread.  Good luck with your new computer. 

[Orca Flotta]

I didn't shrug fans off as unimportant, Peggy, but after 3 years on my machine without any overheating (even in the hot South African summer) it turned out the included fans that came with CPU, PSU and GPU are enough. They never even turn very fast and loud. When I ordered my machine I told the guy that I'm intending to take it to Africa and thought he'd sell me a family pack of fans. But he shrugged it off and assured me it'll be fine.

And so it was.

[Peggy Paperdoll]

I'm on the other side of that fence.  I've had a computer overheat burning up both a couple of memory modules and a discrete audio card.  It was all because of a lack of adequate case cooling.  I also contribute that heat issue to a very early failure of my hard drive (about a month later).  Call be gun shy but for $30 USD I ain't going that route again.  I'd rather my system sound like a vacuum cleaner than burn up another computer unnecessarily.  I'm recommending to the OP what I would do......not what I could get by with not doing.  Leave your fans out.........that's fine.  But to tell someone else to do that is just not something I would ever do.

Done with my argument on that subject.

[Sasuiko]

Hello Peggy, Orca and Jean,

Thank you all for your advice and tips on what I should be looking for. It makes sense that I ventured away from the main stores because over here they are quite limited in what they have to offer. I am in Asia and absolutely no offence taken at all Peggy I think the whole customisation of PCs here (at least where I am) is not overly popular though not unheard of (maybe I don't know where to look that's why I'm unaware). I'm pretty tech challenged so any advice and suggestions from people who know what they're talking about always helps me out ^.^

 

So I actually did a search and got in touch with 2 small stores. One of them hasn't gotten back to me yet but says it'll cost about $800-900 just for the machine (excl. monitor, keyboard, mouse etc.) The other store got back to me with the following and I jsut wanted to run it past you to see if that is acceptable or if I should ask them to tweak it more:

Processor:                           (LGA1155) Intel Core i5 3570 3.4GHz - $292.00

Mainboard :                       (LGA1155) Gigabyte B75M-HD3 (M-ATX) -  $115.00

Memory:                             Kingston DDR3 1600 CL 11 KVR16N11/8 8GB - $79.00

Hard Drive:                         Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB SATA3 WD10EZEX - $98.00

Graphics Card:                   MSI Geforce GTX650Ti 1GB N650Ti-1GD5/OC - $229.00

Optical Drive:                     LG 24x DVDRW GH24NS90 Black - $30.00

PC Case:                               Coolermaster Elite 341 (MATX) - $59.00

Power Supply:                   Seasonic S12II 520 Bronze 520W - $89.00

Case Fan:                             Coolermaster 12cm Case Fan -$10.00

Operating System:          Microsoft Windows 7 64-Bit Home Premium OEM -$131.00

Security Software:           Microsoft Security Essentials - $0.00

Services and Support:    GooGoo 1 year Next Business Day On-Site Standard warranty - $80.00

Total: $1212.00

 

So what do you reckon? All systems go!? Am I missing anything ^.^

[Jean Horten]

Yes, that looks good and should run Sl quite well....

Cheers from Europe

Jeannie

[Orca Flotta]

All systems go! :smileyhappy:

Okay, I'm a nitpicking OCDer so I'd have chosen a beefier powerbrick and I find the system overall a bit pricey for just the naked box but that's maybe your country's economy. We have rather high prices here in South Africa as well, the market of PC users is just too small here. That's why hubby and me shop for new computer stuff when we go back on vacation to our origin Germany.

Anyhoo, have fun with your new, very cool and individual system.

 

@ Peggy: Yes hun, I know heat is our enemy. I fried my cool Asus gaming specs lappy just last year. :smileysad: But the case of my desktop machine is rather huge and relatively empty for good airflow. Also I have SpeedFan running for heat control. So I'm always in the green zone.

[Peggy Paperdoll]

I'm going with the others to say the computer with that hardware will run SL very well.  I would say you could run with ultra settings with a minimal lag hit (any computer will lag somewhat at ultra over high settings......this computer would one of the better for ultra).  You might find it better to run high settings for everyday SL'ing and ultra for photo taking (that's what I would do anyway).

I looked up the motherboard specifications to see how many expansion slots it has and how much memory it will support.  It has 1 PCIe 3.0 x16 slot, 2 PCIe 2.0 x1 slots, and 1 PCI slot.  That's pretty typical but I'm only a little disappointed that it only has 1 PCI slot (upgrades like and audio card and network interface card are usually PCI).  However, the onboard audio and LAN (network interface) are pretty top notch so maybe only 1 PCI slot is enough....just me being picky icky.   The motherboard supports up to 16 GB DDR3 memory..........that, again, is pretty typical.  I would not count anything against the 16 GB limit.  Just because I might want 32 GB doesn't mean 16 GB is not overkill in itself.  Gigabyte has a reputation of being one of the very best manufacturers of motherboards.......and a well deserved reputation to boot.  In my opinion, and excellent choice.  If the CPU is the heart of a computer, then the motherboard is the soul.

I had not heard of the manufacturer for the power supply so I did a Google search for reviews.  The reviews I read gave the PS excellent grades.  A typical review is found here:

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/954

 

It will be a good, strong, and powerful machine.  It's got room for upgrades.  It will last you for years.  And I don't think you will be disappointed at all.  The price of some of the components seem a few dollars high to me but, then, I believe that is probably due to difference in the US dollar and your country's dollar.  A similar system that I could put together at my favorite online custom computer shop might be a $100 less.  I believe that is pretty darn good.  If the price is something you can deal with then it's a good buy.  If not then about the only thing I can think of to lower the cost would be to step back on the video card to the 500 series (such as a GTX 560 card) to save a few dollars without sacrificing performance significantly.  Also, a terabyte of storage is, in my opinion, way more than you need unless you save a lot of music and video.  Going to 500 GB (half a terabyte) will save a few dollars.......you can always add another drive later if you need it.

 

Good machine.  It will do what you said you wanted it to do.  Good luck and have fun with your new toy. 

[Sasuiko]

You all rock! I totally love the new computer and really enjoying SL very much. YAYYYYYYYY!! and THANK YOUUUUU!! ^.^ for all your help and advice. I really appreciate it . Hugs all around. haha