Multi Sub Object material Id's & UV Mapping (3ds Max 2013)

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

You could be the victim of a weird bug that doubles the faces. I'll have to think about how it worked and look it up.

It might have something to do with how you named your object or materials, make sure there are no spaces in their names. The bug allows some cool tricks btw, but in this case it's not what you want. It could also be the fbx plugin version. Can't see what version of 3ds max you are using, but if it's 2012 or 2013, make sure you have the very latest plugin installed from the Autodesk site. It's all a bit blurry, so if that doesn't help I need to look it up (as I already said:) ).

[Gromlok Landar]

Alright, 

I noticed my second and third material ID in the multi sub object was "Red Carpet" and "Grey Carpet" respectively, I changed it by adding an underscore between the words Red Carpet and Grey Carpet.

My FBX plug-in is: FBX Plug-in version: 2013.1 Release (180734)

I am using 3ds Max 2013

Hope this helps and Kwakkelde, Your getting one helluva Kudo's on this one

Pat

[Gromlok Landar]

I noticed on the Autodesk website that there is a newer version of the fbx, I have downloaded it and installed the newest version and used "web update" to verify I have the latest version.  

Now I'm wondering about dae to see if it's up to date.

Newest FBX version for 32 bit Autodesk 3ds Max is: FBX Plug-in version: 2013.3 Release (197930)

I'm going to test this out again.

Pat

P.S. Forget about exporting .dae, didn't realize it uses the FBX plug-in.

P.S 2 - With the new FBX plug-in, it shows that I still have 8 faces on the 3d model.

SWEET JESUS H, IT BLOODY WELL WORKED,   I exported the design as fbx then exported as dae, imported in world, began applying the textures and it worked perfectly, literally perfectly.  It had nothing to do with what I did, its what I didn't do, I didnt update the fbx plug-in.  Also it turns out that the land impact on my designs are lower with this fbx plug-in than the previous version I was using.  OH MY GAWD.

IT'S LAWL time, LOLOLOL

Pat

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

With the 2013.3 version of the plugin, you should be able to export as dae directly. Anyway, if converting an fbx file does the trick, that's good enough I guess.

Glad everything worked out

[Gromlok Landar]

The only reason why I export as FBX is I can import easier into a scene in fbx format, dae apparently causes some problems and converts the 3d model to trx into the scene.

This has been an ongoing problem for about a year now Kwakkelde, I gave kudo's big time in this thread.

Many Many Many thanks.

Pat

P.S. I'll post pictures of the design in a second.

[Medhue Simoni]

Yeah, which plugin is really a big issue. I have an old 3ds Max, and just getting a plugin that worked took weeks, as there are 4 collada export plugins that I know of. Some of them, you have to completely uninstall to get other 1's to work right too.

Congrats on getting it all to work!

[Gromlok Landar]

Here's 4 pics I took of the interior design to show how much of a difference this made:

Enjoy and Thanks a massive bunch to all who were involved.

Pat

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

Very nice, I hope you have some great times in there:)

[Gromlok Landar]

Im wondering about something Kwakkelde, theres still 8 sides to that 3d model when there should be only 4, is it possible that somehow it doubled the amount of sides when I multi sub objected the 3d model design ?

Reason why I'm inquiring is this:  when I log out and log back in world, the entire carpet is red, the moment I edit the design, the gray appears in the carpet.  Quite odd actually.

Pat

P.S. I found 3 faces that are apparently not in use in the 3d model design, I set them to 100% transparent but I can't seem to find the last face. Perhaps by setting those 4 extra faces to transparency, it could resolve the problem.  Like you said, a glitch or bug.

P.S 2 - Found the 4th face, set it to transparency, doesn't seem to resolve the problem, looks like I will have no choice but to go back into 3ds Max and see where the problem is by divide and conquer.

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

Sorry to hear things still aren't working.

Did you check the number of sides in 3ds Max before exporting (like the picture below)? Make sure you selected all polygons of the model.

 

You could also have some unused ID's, polygons with an ID in 3ds Max, but without a material assigned, they will not show up in the list.

Re-apply the material to the model. Just select the model, open the material editor, then assign the material to selection. Then look at the "Polygon: Material IDs" rollout again, uncheck "Clear Selection" (it's hidden by the "No Names" in the picture above). Click "Walls", then "Red Carpet" etc. If any faces are unselected, that means you have some ID's without a material. Alternatively, you could open the statistics (Just hit 7), right click the little plus in the upper left of the viewport, select "Viewport Configuration", go to the "Statistics" tab and select "Total + Selection". That way you can see if the polygons you selected by selecting by ID matches the total amount of polygons of the object.

Another thing you can check by using the statistics, is if SL uses exactly twice the amount of faces compared to 3ds Max. Make sure you have triangles selected in the statistics instead of polygons. If the number in SL is twice the number in 3ds Max, I suspect it's the exporter causing the issues.

It's still not clear to me what version of 3ds Max and what version of FBX plugin you use. I also don't understand why you export as fbx and more importantly, what you do with that fbx file. If you export as fbx, you could convert that fbx file to dae with a stand alone converter. I think most people use the 2011 version, found in the archives.

[Gromlok Landar]

Hey Kwakkelde,

It's ok, atleast I am seeing the results and its tasting really good right now.

So let's start:

QUOTE:"Did you check the number of sides in 3ds Max before exporting (like the picture below)? Make sure you selected all polygons of the model."

Yes I have, I even took a snapshot of it below:

Now in the Material Editor, When I select from one of the 4 Material ID's within the Multi-Sub Object, it goes to where I can select Diffuse

So I select Diffuse and this is where it goes to

So now in the bottom picture, the Material and Map are now assigned to Material ID 1

Could that be where it's doubling up on the faces ?  The Material and map ?

Instead of using Checker as a material, I used bitmap and used a texture on the picture below:

QUOTE:"Alternatively, you could open the statistics (Just hit 7), right click the little plus in the upper left of the viewport, select "Viewport Configuration", go to the "Statistics" tab and select "Total + Selection". That way you can see if the polygons you selected by selecting by ID matches the total amount of polygons of the object."

Yes the picture below shows that the polygon count matches exactly:

I'm using Autodesk 3ds Max 2013

FBX Plug-in version: 2013.3 Release (197930)  ( this is the one I recently downloaded that resolved issues we had discussed)

That FBX File is imported into my scene, Cant use dae to import, converts the file to TRX.

Pat

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

As far as I can see everything is perfectly fine in 3ds Max, so it' probably the export(er).

I still don't understand what you do with your fbx files. The final result needs to be a dae file or you won't be able to upload it to SL. You say you import the fbx files into your scene, why not keep them as .max files? The least you convert the least chances you have of things going wrong.

Did you try the 2011 converter to make the final dae file?

One other thing that catches my eye, the top of your stack shows the "UVW unwrap", did you try to convert to editable poly before exporting? I don't think it matters, in fact I've exported objects with the modifier stack uncollapsed myself, I'm just running out of ideas at the moment...

I asked it before I think, if you could post the files somewhere, I could have a look.

[Gromlok Landar]

If you want Kwakkelde, I can e-mail the file to you or add you to skype and file transfer it that way.  Whichever you prefer, I know some dont feel comfortable giving out their e-mail addy, atleast with Skype, you add someone, you can remove them off your friends list afterwards as well.

Now the file is saved as a .max file, I'm told by other 3d modellers in the 3ds Max group in SL that its best to convert to collapse the stack, convert to FBX then export as dae file to import in worlds.  If I make 10 3d models for one scene, I save each one as a separate .max file, do what I need to do to each 3d piece in each .max file then re-import them back into the scene as FBX.

Here's a pic of what importer extensions are available for me:

It seems .max isn't one of them.  I found FBX to be close to perfect when importing into a scene minus any glitches I get.

Let me collapse the stack and simply export just as .dae to see if that helps or even solves the problem.

Let me know how you want the file Kwakkelde, thanks.

Pat

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

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Gromlok Landar wrote:

If you want Kwakkelde, I can e-mail the file to you or add you to skype and file transfer it that way.  Whichever you prefer, I know some dont feel comfortable giving out their e-mail addy, atleast with Skype, you add someone, you can remove them off your friends list afterwards as well.

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I sent you a PM about that, can't look at them right now though.

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Now the file is saved as a .max file, I'm told by other 3d modellers in the 3ds Max group in SL that its best to convert to collapse the stack, convert to FBX then export as dae file to import in worlds.

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Are you sure they didn't say: "export as fbx, then convert to dae (with the stand alone tool)" ? That's what plenty of Max and Maya users do.

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Here's a pic of what importer extensions are available for me:

[pic]

It seems .max isn't one of them.  I found FBX to be close to perfect when importing into a scene minus any glitches I get.

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The .max isn't in the import menu, you can use "merge" instead. (or "replace" to update it, or even use "reference" so you can work on that piece separately)

[Gromlok Landar]

Hey Kwakkelde,

I sent you a pm back.

QUOTE: "Are you sure they didn't say: "export as fbx, then convert to dae (with the stand alone tool)" ? That's what plenty of Max and Maya users do."

no..no..they made it perfectly clear, export as fbx, then export as dae file with the 3ds Max application but collapse stack before exporting as fbx.  I didnt notice a different between collapsing stack and not collapsing stack.

QUOTE: "The .max isn't in the import menu, you can use "merge" instead. (or "replace" to update it, or even use "reference" so you can work on that piece separately" 

Well Well Well, merge, can't say I ever used that but now that I think of it, that does sound right to do, I'll try it.

Back to designing I go.

Hope to talk to you soon, lemme know what ya find, I know I'm not perfect but only perfect intentions

Pat

[Gromlok Landar]

OH here's something Kwakkelde,

I took a snapshot of an error I got when I tried to export as dae file after I collapsed the stack

The Texture export incompatibility is the 4 materials, I used checker instead of bitmap when I stitch and weld edges and vertices in the UV Editor.

I'm going to look up that error and see what it is, I have never seen it before

Pat

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

Well I had a look at the dae file and if I import it into 3ds Max it has 8 material ID's, so there's clearly something wrong.

 

Without the .max file I can't see why the dae ended up like this though. Everything that should be blue is quadrupled and has faces for ID 1-5.

(oh I turned off 1-4, so don't get confused by the missing checkmarks)

The material error occurs with any material that's not standard, so any cellular, checker, noise etc will give that. I haven't seen it causing any issues with uploads to SL.

[Medhue Simoni]

I just want to add that when I'm working on a mesh, I always save it out as an OBJ. The OBJ files contain everything you would need, with no problematic extra stuff. It also applies all your modifiers, and embeds the materials and all that. This is actually how I check the model to make sure it has no issues. No matter what changes I make, when I'm done, it gets exported as an OBJ, and then reimported. Of course I save max files, but when it comes to a finished model, it always gets saved as an OBJ in the final step. I then reimport it, check everything, and export to DAE.

I think the last thing I would do is export a model in FBX to use somewhere else, unless that was my only option or it's an avatar with a skeleton.

[Gromlok Landar]

Medhue, can you explain why you export it as an OBJ file and how you can see if something is wrong if your doing multi sub object please ?

Pat

[Gromlok Landar]

Kwakkelde, now you see what I have been fighting... for so long with multi sub object in 3ds Max.

oh crap, that means that the extra 4 faces on the 3d model are coming from the diffuse part, if you go back to my previous long pictured post, it shows default, map and another all in the same one.  That's gotta be what's causing it, its the diffuse.

You said when your turn off 1-4 which are the diffuse ones, everything is fine ?

Pat

[Medhue Simoni]

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Gromlok Landar wrote:

Medhue, can you explain why you export it as an OBJ file and how you can see if something is wrong if your doing multi sub object please ?

Pat

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I use 3ds Max 8, and there was always little bugs between the material IDs and UV unwrap. I totally forget how you have to do it to get it right and have the textures show on the models. I found out right away that if I just saved the model as an OBJ, then I could reimport it and check the materials and UV maps. When you save it as an OBJ, it saves all the UV and material information. When you reimport it, you have a fresh model with no modifiers or anything on it. You can apply a UV unwrap to it and check the UV map, and open the material editior and check that. It should all be embedded in the OBJ file. OBJ is probably the most common format for mesh objects and almost every program can import an OBJ. Collada on the other hand is hit or miss for support, and every 3D program does collada a bit different. Generally, I've never seen too many issues with meshes in collada formats, but again, I do use that format unless I'm uploading to SL. So, OBJ just seems like the best format to store your meshes in, as you can use that format in every program, with no issues at all.

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

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Gromlok Landar wrote:

 

oh crap, that means that the extra 4 faces on the 3d model are coming from the diffuse part, if you go back to my previous long pictured post, it shows default, map and another all in the same one.  That's gotta be what's causing it, its the diffuse.

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That box simply shows the tree, the diffuse is part of the submaterial, which is part of the multimaterial. That's all exactly as it should look.

I think we're finally onto something though. What exactly did you use for the diffuse? Your multi/sub looks fine, then the submaterial looks fine, then it looks like you used a checker for at least one of the the diffuse maps. Unlike the material error I have seen quite often when using Arch & Design" materials, the checker really does give problems in dae files.

If I use a checker and export the model to dae and import it back in, it shows the extra material, just like your model does. The checker map contains two materials, I think that's what's causing your extra polygons and materials. I'm not sure why you'd use the checker, you want a texture applied to your model eventually, so put that texture in the diffuse slot as bitmap in 3ds Max.

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You said when your turn off 1-4 which are the diffuse ones, everything is fine ?

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I was just trying out some things, turning off the 4 submaterials doesn't change the geometry. You have duplicate faces for material 1-5 in the .dae file. This gives the model 5397 triangular polygons. Without that geometry your model has 1821 triangles.

[Gromlok Landar]

So basically go back into the Material Editor, change the sub-material from checker to bitmap in the multi-sub object, export as Dae then import into the metaverse and I'll put the script that you mentioned to see how many faces the model has, it should then say 4 which should solve the problem.

Regarding the diffuse, in one of my long posts above, I took a snapshot of the diffuse section in the Material Editor, I'll put the diffuse picture here to show you exactly what I did:

Notice the Diffuse below Ambient, to the right it has a blue box signifying the mutli-sub object color coding then to the right of that is a letter M, I can only figure that it stands for Map, selecting that box brings up the sub-material, pic below for that:

to the right of Map#4 is the Bitmap box that if clicked, brings up a long menu from bitmap to checker etc.  That is where I select bitmap then it goes to my hard drive as I can browse through my textures and select one to use for that area of the Map, did I do that right atleast ?

Pat

[Gromlok Landar]

So Medhue, when you export as OBJ file, did you collapse the stack of your modifiers on the right side where it was converted to poly or mesh and the UVW Unwrap etc included in the 3d model before exporting ?

Pat

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

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Gromlok Landar wrote:

So basically go back into the Material Editor, change the sub-material from checker to bitmap in the multi-sub object, export as Dae then import into the metaverse

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Change the diffuse map of the submaterial from checker to bitmap, but I take it that's what you mean, so, yes.

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to the right of Map#4 is the Bitmap box that if clicked, brings up a long menu from bitmap to checker etc.  That is where I select bitmap then it goes to my hard drive as I can browse through my textures and select one to use for that area of the Map, did I do that right atleast ?

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Correctomundo, you can also let 3ds Max show it in your viewport. Highlight "Show Shaded Material in Viewport" when you have the multi/sub material open in your material editor, it's the checker board with lightbulb right above the material name.