Ubuntu troubles. Would debian work better for me?

[solstyse]

So, the last version of Ubuntu that worked perfectly for me was 11.10. I'm wondering what dropped from the repository that would make it stop working as soon as it hit the number 12. I mean, I could still use anything in 12.04 or 12.10 from the repository, and I probably wouldn't notice a problem if I didn't ty to sideload any apps. (using some android language there.)

The problem I have is that third party apps seem to just not work after that distro for me.

I have done a bit of research,and found that I'mnot the only one who feels that Ubuntu distros later than 11.10 feel "broken" but at the same time, there are plenty of people who have no trouble at all with releases up to their latest 12.10. there also seems to be some disagreement on the net as to what is the cause. Some cite the libfontconfig 2.9 files, saying that replacing them with libfontconfig 2.8 specifically in your sl directory will fix it. Others say it's a video driver issue. It seems that this is unique to Ubuntu, although not all users experience the symptoms.

Now, here's my question. Since I've laid eyes on Linux Mint, I fell in love. but Mint gives me a few options. Mint is based on either Ubuntu (Mint 14 corresponds with Ubuntu 12.10) or on Debian. So, I can try the Debian version, and see if it works better, or I can "regress" to a version of Mint that works because it's based on Ubuntu 11.10.

In either case, would running apt-get update or apt-get upgrade from an older distro put me right back in the same position, or would it only upgrade the packages that are not too modern for my 3 year old machine?

I mean this fo now only as a general question. If specifics are needed, I'll gladly post them. But for now, since it seems that there are others in the same position as I am, I think it's a general linux/distro question, and not a question so much of my specific hardware.

[Ted McGregor]

Ok .. Sorry for the delay, but have got some time now.

Thanks for starting the thread already.

Downloading latest SL client ( Linux beta ) and will get back to this asap.

 

ETA : Working.

Ok .. *scrapes throat* .. I am no guru, speaking to you at user to user level here.

 

My machine : 

 

i386PC:~$ lsb_release -a
Distributor ID: Ubuntu
Description:    Ubuntu 12.10
Release:        12.10
Codename:       quantal

i386PC:~$ uname -a -r
Linux i386PC 3.5.0-23-generic #35-Ubuntu SMP Thu Jan 24 13:05:29 UTC 2013 i686 i686 i686 GNU/Linux

( About distros in general .. perhaps you know this site already ? )

 

ETA 2 : libfontconfig I'm using with this (K)Ubuntu 12.10 is currently 2.10.1 . No issues. Will do some chores RL now, but will return to this thread and answer your OP in depth.

 

[Ted McGregor]

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solstyse wrote:

So, the last version of Ubuntu that worked perfectly for me was 11.10. I'm wondering what dropped from the repository that would make it stop working as soon as it hit the number 12.

TDD123 replies :

Sounds to me like when upgrading you do so by apt-get upgrade only. Are you aware that general upgrading to a newer version number of your distro requires apt-get (-f) dist-upgrade too ? The -f is optional.

Distribution upgrades can be tricky though and can break dependencies.

Muon has a graphical package manager that might assist you better.

 

solstyse wrote :

I mean, I could still use anything in 12.04 or 12.10 from the repository, and I probably wouldn't notice a problem if I didn't ty to sideload any apps. (using some android language there.)

The problem I have is that third party apps seem to just not work after that distro for me.

TDD123 replies :

Heh .. I'm not sure which desktop environment you prefer , but personally I stuck to KDE from earliest use of linux ( about 10 years ago). I started off with Debian ( I think Etch ) first and replaced that installation since december last year.

Somehow always avoided Gnome. What desktop were you using at the time ?

Could you also elaborate on the third party apps ? You mean SL client for linux stopped working altogether ?

 

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[Ted McGregor]

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solstyse wrote:

I have done a bit of research,and found that I'mnot the only one who feels that Ubuntu distros later than 11.10 feel "broken" but at the same time, there are plenty of people who have no trouble at all with releases up to their latest 12.10. there also seems to be some disagreement on the net as to what is the cause. Some cite the libfontconfig 2.9 files, saying that replacing them with libfontconfig 2.8 specifically in your sl directory will fix it. Others say it's a video driver issue. It seems that this is unique to Ubuntu, although not all users experience the symptoms.

TDD123 replies:

What I understood was that there's a lot of discontent about Canonical's choice for the Unity interface as default for Ubuntu installations.

I don't know details but Gnome 3 has a tough time as well. Many, even Torvalds himself, show discontent about Gnome. KDE gained in popularity since.

At least that's what I think that was going on.

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[Ted McGregor]

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solstyse wrote:

Now, here's my question. Since I've laid eyes on Linux Mint, I fell in love. but Mint gives me a few options. Mint is based on either Ubuntu (Mint 14 corresponds with Ubuntu 12.10) or on Debian. So, I can try the Debian version, and see if it works better, or I can "regress" to a version of Mint that works because it's based on Ubuntu 11.10.

In either case, would running apt-get update or apt-get upgrade from an older distro put me right back in the same position, or would it only upgrade the packages that are not too modern for my 3 year old machine?

I mean this fo now only as a general question. If specifics are needed, I'll gladly post them. But for now, since it seems that there are others in the same position as I am, I think it's a general linux/distro question, and not a question so much of my specific hardware.

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From experience I can tell you that Debian is the more stricter and stabler distribution. Eventhough applications might require newer libraries of certain code, Debian goes through a bug tracking procedure that will hardly speed up to needs of programmers of applications. Debian upgrades when Debian approves. You could always try testing instead of stable, but that can break anytime, a specific mention by the release team.

Ubuntu is the more responsive one, but of course Debian based.

Linux Mint comes in both flavours.

I hope  my prior website reference can help you in your final choice of distribution.

You can always install both as well and decide later.

 

Started off myself last december with Ubuntu 12.10 Gnome 3, but replaced it with current ( 12.10 / KDE 4.9.4 ). Running stable.

 

Have fun ..

[Darren Scorpio]

I myself am stuck on 11.10 which will reach end of life in April if I recall correctly. By any chance do you have an ATI graphics card? What kernel version are you using? In my case I have isolated the problem to the kernel, the last working kernel for me is 3.0.0-12 which is the one that comes when you first install Ubuntu 11.10 or Linux Mint 12. If I update the kernel to anything other than that version I start to get random crashes. The crashes can be reproduced with 100% rate by logging into SL and TPing into a region you have never been to and the viewer starts downloading textures etc.

I have done various tests to conclude 100% that at least in my case the problem is the kernel. I know that I can install Linux Mint 13 or a later version and then downgrade the kernel, however I have been able to do it successfully. I can downgrade the kernel but then I am unable to install the drivers. This has been driving me nuts for a year.

[Orca Flotta]

I fell in love with Mint 14 (Cinnnamon) 64-bit and tried to install the Singularity viewer 64-bit on it. Worked flawless on others machines but mine. So a friend hijacked my machine with Teamviewer and after a while managed to install the viewer. I don't really have a clue about all that stuff, just wanted to switch to Linux since it seems to be more politically correct than becoming dependant on the ultra-capitalist MS/Apple stuff.

It's great! And that despite LL's best attempts to tell us that Linux viewers only work on 32-bit. :matte-motes-evil:

 

[solstyse]

It is an ATI card. Radeon mobility 4200, specifically.

when I tried installing the proprietary drivers from ATI it led to a lot of dependency issues that eventually caused the gui to not render. So, I'm going to start fresh nomatter what I do. I don't have enough saved to make it worth further troubleshooting. Especially since while nobody on this thread will directly say it, the hint that I get from all of you is that I'm best off switching to Mint Debian Edition.

I'll try that first with the Cinnamon desktop, since it was actually born from the unhappiness of the Gnome changes. It seems like the developers want to continue what Gnome started before it branched off wildly. If that doesn't work, then well, for everyone here KDE seems to be working. I really should just skip straight to KDE and be done with it, but Cinnamon looks so good!

If neither works for me, then I'll install Mint 12, and apt-get my updates as suggested here. But what makes LMDE so appealing to me is that hopefully, I won't have to continuously reinstall on a 6 month cycle as I would with Ubuntu based versions.

We'll see. I'll try everything that's suggested here and keep you posted on what does or doesn't work for me. Thanks everyone!

[Darren Scorpio]

Your problem might not be similar to mine in that my problem is with the Kernel version. However you and I are on the same boat in that our ATI cards are no longer supported. If I am not mistaken the last legacy driver for these cards was 12.6 which only supports up to kernel 3.4 and note that Ubuntu 12.10/Mint 14 come with kernel 3.5 and there will need to be a tweak you will need to perform to get the drivers installed. I wrote a post here on the forums a while ago on how to do it. Otherwise you will have to stick to Ubuntu 12.04/Mint 13.

 

EDIT: Here is the thread, you might find it useful.

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Second-Life-Viewer/Ubuntu-12-10-with-legacy-AMD-ATI-cards-to-play-SL/m-p/1739541#M16901

 

[Ted McGregor]

You can also save yourself much troubles if you can exchange your GPU from ATI to NVidia. Afaik ATI users experience much more trouble in properly installing and maintaining their driver than the latter. I always stuck to NVidia and hardly have the trouble I notice ATI users have.

Not questioning ATI products, just the(ir) (proprietary) driver support on linux.

[solstyse]

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TDD123 wrote:

You can also save yourself much troubles if you can exchange your GPU from ATI to NVidia. Afaik ATI users experience much more trouble in properly installing and maintaining their driver than the latter. I always stuck to NVidia and hardly have the trouble I notice ATI users have.

 

Not questioning ATI products, just the(ir) (proprietary) driver support on linux.

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Oh, how badly I wish I could! Unfortunately 3 years ago I got "laptop curious" and now I'm stuck with the hardware that came with the machine until I go back to desktops next year. I read all over the place that Nvidea walks all over ATI in Linux. And a new card would be soooo cheap if I had a desktop.

And, to top things off, I don't have ANY free partitions to put LMDE on. So I'll have to either boot into Win8 or figure out why my Mint14 virtual disk is so picky about 3rd party apps. I think I'll reinstall, so that I can start fresh, then go down the list of advice that people gave in this thread. I hope something else works before I re-read about downgrading the kernel

 

[Ted McGregor]

Dang ... :robotindifferent:

 

Still wishing you loads of fun with your distro of choice nonetheless. Keeping my fingers crossed you get it to work somehow.

Good luck !