Add extra bones to the skeleton

[Voodoo Schnyder]

So I finished a furry creature avatar, and now, to rig it! Is it possible to add extra bones to the skeleton, for SL use? I've heard that it is possible for some games, does it apply here?

 

thanks!

[Nalates Urriah]

AFAIK, no it isn't.

In SL the skeleton/armature is programmed into the viewer. When you upload your rigged mesh, only the mesh and its related information upload. Your custom armature is not uploaded. Nor is there any way for it to be downloaded to others in SL.

While you can rig to the the bones you add, there will be no corresponding bone in the skeleton included in the viewer. So, those parts of the mesh you upload will not animate. I'm not sure whether the SL uploader will allow the inclusion of extra bones.

There are bones in the viewer's skeleton that are not included in the typical avatar files currently available. Some of them can be used in rigging and the mesh parts using them will animate.

[Gaia Clary]

Here is the draft version of an article about the Second Life Skeleton. that may give you some more insight into what can be done and what not:

http://blog.machinimatrix.org/avastar/the-second-life-skeleton/

[Hp Xenobuilder]

Hint.....avatar_skeleton.xml, replace the viewers skeletal definition xml file with your modified version, requires some knowledge of animation to get your scale ,offset, and rotations correct, I have only  tested this in open sim with an open source viewer, but we are getting our custo avatars with wings and tails in accordingly.

[Gaia Clary]

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Hp Xenobuilder wrote:

Hint.....avatar_skeleton.xml, replace the viewers skeletal definition xml file with your modified version, requires some knowledge of animation to get your scale ,offset, and rotations correct, I have only  tested this in open sim with an open source viewer, but we are getting our custo avatars with wings and tails in accordingly.

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Doesn't everybody then need to have the same modified version of avatar_skeleton.xml in order to be able to see your custom character correctly ?

[Hp Xenobuilder]

I would have to reconfigure our servers to allow alternate viewers to investigate this, as we only allow one viewer to connect to our simulators. During the low volume time this weekend I will test this and get back with you. However it would be a very small update for viewers to accomodate a new skeletal xml file as it is only 12 lines of code in the file which is changed in the modification.

[freston]

I know that this can be done with attachment points in avatar_lad.xml, though there might be some issue with available id's. I wouldn't be supprised if you could modify the skeleton in avatar_skeleton too, but every viewer would have to have the modified xml files to see it so it's not very useful except for machinima.

 

[Hp Xenobuilder]

123,000 people using a modified file which grants the ability for more joints and bones seems like a rather pleasant environment and desireable attribute. As far as platform dependencies and restrictions goes, I would say it would be determined to be a favorable move on any entities behalf in reducion of scripted objects and attachements. Looking at my dx and opengl debugging it is far less lagg in the environment and reduces load on common graphics cards. ....copy paste and replace...the best of both worlds.....fyi the .._lad.xml did have to be modded as well to make accomodations for viewers which have multiple attachement points. I would say unless you had  region which received +-20 unique visitors per day , your returning visitors would have no issue with reaping the benefits of the extra jonts and bones in order to accomodate a faster, more efficient, and unique avatar.

Happy SecondLife Adventuring !!!

[freston]

Do you know if changes to avatar_skeleton are actually honoured in any viewer in SL too?

The only testing I've done is with adding new attachment points in avatar_lad.xml and using Firestorm. As you pointed out, this has been hacked in the past to provide multiple attachment points and I guess Firestorm inherited that part of the code. I found you had to choose the right id's for it to work (looked up the id's for those duplicate attachment points) but I didn't test it particularly deeply.

I can certaily imagine having a region that recomends downloading and installing a custom avatar_skeleton.xml file in order to have cool new avatars

 

[Hp Xenobuilder]

Our changes were made to accomodate Daz and Poser originally ,with the extra morphs, then adopted double sided faces and miroring, in mesh conversion on the u-l of the .dae, in order to view,test, and animate our characters in a real time environment before u-l to any third party servers for distribution.

A more appropriate direction to get an accurate answer on the honouring of changes to the rig composition for usage on Second Life servers , would be to direct your questions to the viewer dev team or Scott-Oscar directly.

[Hp Xenobuilder]

BTW..feel free to redirect or copy our convo to a more appropriate forum thread if you feel the need to do so , in order to receive a greater exposure.

 Happy Second Life Adventuring !!!

[powerdance]

Yes ,Extra Bones.This is nice suggestion !

Especially Face bones - we can create face mocap animation for mesh avatars

It will be awesome