Kyle Steig

>>In RL, as a club-owner, a gallery-owner which has an exhibition of erotic photos or as the creator of erotic “equipment” I have the option of demanding to see I.D. Sure, it could be fake – but I'd also have the option, if not entirely convinced by the baby-face waving a false document at me, to chuck them out anyway. <<' if you feel a need to be surrogate mommy I applaud your values. Nothing stops you from making your land 'group access only' and demanding your own verification as a condition of entry. I encourage you to do so since it clearly is the surest way for you to know you are keeping to your values. My values are ALSO keeping kids away from porn. I take the approach of insisting they affirm they are of legal age to see it. - Kyle

A lot like that AND for manually verified accounts like mine and many others and repeated discussing the fact that the Aristotle relationship is apparently over and that, therefore, not even a history that an account was verified will be retained.

Say it again. Clearly and unequivocally where it can be quoted later in the event of a legal action. Demonstrate in that statement that it might actually be true because it is so unmistakably quotable in the event of a legal action.

So, now that LL has finally decided to get a clue. What about all of us who spent money and countless hours trying to keep our SL lives and business afloat during the ghetto-ization? What about the lost land quality and value? What about our personal info on file we might want purged? What about how we were treated when we tried then to get them to realize that there was a lot more than 2-4% adult content and that they risked THEIR business too? What about committing, now, from now on to listening to their community? Here's what I'd demand: - Get confirmation for us that our records have been purged from Aristotle. Here's what I would sincerely appreciate: - Review the land transfers we had to make and give those of us forced to move a tier adjustment. - Say "Thank you for staying despite our li'l fuax pas" - Kyle

Blaze, I just want you to know that the thoughtfulness and maturity you're bringing to this is why my concerns have nothing to do with what Teens would do on the grid and all about what could happen to them once there and the risks the uncertainties create for those adults like me who really do strive to do no harm. There are countless 'adults' far less rational, reasonable and thoughtful than you who already quickly earn themselves a ban and a mute. Adults, well perhaps not adults but people over the legal age of adulthood, are occasionally also guilty of copy-bot skeeviness and sim griefing. You're a shap kid and I think you'll do very well in life. Thanks for being you! The real shame in this to me is LL's failure to make The Teen Grid more workable and sustainable for folks like Blaze. - Kyle

Nany, until you listen and don't talk so much, you'll keep thinking the lack of traffic isn't anything but evidence that you're not the first, last or middle stop. As it happens, we've seen on these very boards that other native peoples in SL are playing with us, the rest of the population in ways you seem to find offensive. They've said it here. They've TOLD you. The reason it keeps coming up and why I say this again is that you want to push 'us' out but won't do diddly to find the *you* happily amongst the 'us'. You're the topic of discussion because you work so hard to become the topic. For now, until your next little condemnation of other interests, I'll repeat. Talking about a project is not DOING the project. Go look at how others are succeeding here. Make some effort to understand the economics: social, technical and financial and stop being a one-woman sanitization campaign. Time's running out and you DO have a worthwhile goal. If you blow it, it could be a while before anyone else bothers to even try and that would be a shame.

Nany, I am referring to myself as a pervert, with tongue-in-cheek reverence to Larry Flynt as played by Woody Harrelson in "The People Vs Larry Flynt" after winning his case in the Supreme Court. Perhaps you should see the film. It might give you some insight into the size of the market for 'adult content' and the definition of 'community standards'. I firmly believe we must first be able to laugh at ourselves. I am making the observations I am about the project based on prima facie evidence after two years work. One event 6 months ago on the calendar, one image in gallery, no engagement in the 3d or the 2d web in the 2 years since launch does not a project make. The perverts are here running thriving businesses, communities and active projects. One can *do* a thing or *talk* about a thing. The people you often say you'd rather be rid of are those who are *doing* things and succeeding at them. The people harmed by this change make up LL's oldest and most active customer base. They also happen to be those LL actually markets to. Equating the viability of LL with the viability of virtual worlds is hardly the long view you profess to have. It's also not what I or anyone else speaking in opposition to this change or in opposition to your oft-stated preference that the content that brings in the audience 'just go away' is saying. SL's maturity and viability as a platform and LL's future as a business depends on continued support of the things that generate traffic, innovation and stress-tests to LL's instance of the metaverse. It also depends on not alienating the larger paying customer base. That means the things people do in significant numbers for significant periods of time. Not how many empty sims with pixel dioramas and web and notecard links. The thing that MOST stresses and could and should be used to define the evolution of the platform are actually the combat RP sims which, for me, hold no appeal but I'd hardly want to be rid of them or object to those who enjoy spending their time there. What happened to the post where you told me to "stfu"? It just vanished completely for some reason.

Nany, Devolving a discussion to a flame war is nothing new. You have, on several cases, said you do so deliberately. Calling somebody a 'tool' and worse, while convenient because it makes you AR-bait, is less than productive. It's one thing to be mean-spirited but it's downright impressive to come straight out and ask everyone involved not to like or respect you. Well done! For this and many other reasons, those here like me who do have the professional (as in real world get paid a lot of money for it) experience with media including SL aren't likely to be inclined to want to help. That said, traffic may not be the defining metric of success but *some* traffic is a necessary prerequisite. Your museum analogy is a good one. Empty museums close. Education and outreach, by definition require an audience. There's none, and I do mean *none*, now and if you get what you wish for, all the perverts leaving SL, there will be even less. Talking about a project and actually doing it are two very different things even (sometimes especially) in the academic/non-profit sector. SL is years from being a sufficiently reliable and mature platform for the kind of outreach you hope to do. While I appreciate the kind offer for a personal one on one discussion of your metrics and financials, it's not necessary. A visit, a bit of googling and a conversation or two with colleagues and I know all I need to about the SL project and www.virtualnativelands.org. Good luck with that. Everyone else, As to the general issue. No, of course the Lindens won't listen to this discussion or any in-world office hours. That's not how they function. They will listen to dollars. Hence, again, my recommendation those of us who have an investment in SL we are still willing to leave on the table be sure all of that time, money, creativity and traffic stay only on Adult Verified land. The temporary drop in customer base won't last long when word gets out. The alternative will cost you more and, finally, the new user base is exponentially more expensive to market to and support. The money is in the existing, active, and primarily adult audience. To put it simply, selling somebody their *first* hair is far more expensive and low margin than selling them their 43rd. The customers you want are the ones who buy, tell their friends, come back, buy more and once in a blue moon offer an actually useful product reques by dropping you a notecard they don't expect a 30 minute discussion and a friend request back for. Those are the customers where the margin is. not the ones who you have to do LL's job to teach the platform so they can wear the first, and probably only they'll buy, on their head rather than the box on their hand. When LL treats the informed and able customer base like crap, they lose the free support and evangelism for new customers. Hit them in the wallet and they'll learn or somebody else will step in and make you an offer you can't refuse. Make more money with less stress for yourself in the meantime. SL's future depends on the platform stabilizing, becoming able to scale and reliability improving. The 'adult' activities in SL: Busy RP sims with large groups, *combat* RP sims especially, successful clubs and socializing spots that are in large measure 'hook up' spots (which even SL's own marketing exploits) are all things that stress-test the platform. Sim after sim of uninspired builds comprised of diorama-esque sets and kiosks full of web/notecard links that nobody visits do not. The latter is GREAT if LL wants to run a hosting business but to generate INTEREST in a virtual worlds hosting business, they need to have an active and demanding user base. First you make the platform work and be rich and complex by exploiting the slightly bent creative crazies (most of us) THEN you get rich hosting empty sims for #$%^ incompetently run edu projects. They aren't ready for the transition from 'lab' to mature product. - Kyle

"If you are interested in how the nonprofit is doing, we can talk about it inworld if you like. I won't go into it in this blog. Thanks." Actually, there are legal disclosure requirements and it's easy enough to find out. Anyone who really wants the facts already knows how fully any non-profit is meeting, or not, those requirements but that's not the issue that was mentioned. What was mentioned was traffic and visible engagement in SL which is also easy enough to check.

"I have a big shock for you, those teenagers lying about their age have been among us from the very beginning of SL, so for those in Zindra nothing changes, the teens that are there are iligal and should be ARed already and be continued to be ARed" Precisely correct but, I think off the mark. When SL was 18 plus, those who you encountered had lied in order to gain access to the point of committing legal fraud. One could assume you were either dealing with an adult or dealing with somebody willing to breach a legal agreement and claim to be one. Unless you were a predatory scumbag, you would take them at face value and, when you had *any* indication they were under-aged, you'd end contact and band and/or AR. Then came adult verification. With this, came the ability to (and expectation that you could) further rely on LL and their verification process to protect you from accidentally sharing inappropriate content with a minor. Your threshold, unless you were a jerk, changed. You weren't 'graphic' in Mature and PG sims but you could still reasonably assume those you met were adults or committing fraud to be there. You chose to be graphic (again, unless you were a scumbag) in environments built to support interest in overtly adult themes. You didn't, however, need to worry you flashing nothing-but-tape-strips nudity to a substantial population percentage that could be under 18 and *sanctioned by LL* to be there and under 18 in a mature sim. You didn't have to check every joke gesture you had to make sure some ribald comment didn't misfire. Sure, if you were offensive, you might get banned or shunned but you were risking be *offensive* not threatening. Now, you are in a position to *accidentally* behave inappropriately with somebody who made no legal representation they are an adult. *UNLESS* you refuse to interact in any way with somebody who is not age verified including selling to, supporting, IMing, teaching, etc. This is the basis of my recommendation that anyone doing anything in SL that's not appropriate for a 3rd grader simply boycott the unverified customer/social base. If you go to a bar to watch the football game, yelling along with the boisterous crowd "@#$& you umpire, get glasses!" is 'safe'. If you you are in a hotel bar and meet somebody you are attracted to as they sip a beer, you are 'safe' (std, bunny-boiler, robbery and violence risks aside) going back to their rooms with them if you get along with them. If you're in Reno Nevada and you go to a licensed brothel, you're 'safe'. If you go to an 'Indian Casino' and hook up at the blackjack table, you are 'safe'. All of those contexts give a reasonable person cause to believe those they encounter are adults. Unless they deliberately *seek out* those who snuck in underaged, unless they smuggle the underaged in, unless they have reason to believe there is cause for that concern, they are safe, legally. Nobody has successfully been prosecuted (or should be) for statutory rape for a hookup with a Hooters Girl or Chippendales Dancer unless they KNEW that person was in that position via fraud. The truth is, there an enormous number of 'adult' topics, themes and even imagery that are legally and morally considered appropriate for the underaged that to display in SL anywhere but an Adult sim is now potentially AR bait. You'll hate this list but here's some examples: - The image of Christ crucified. Some of the most graphic and gory images of Christ, those done in reverent support and promotion of the faith, include a mostly nude figure nailed through the hands and feet, stabbed and bleeding from the gut and from thorn wounds on the scalp. No matter what your *faith* may be, the images are, unquestionably, nightmarish and, for somebody not of those faiths, not something many parents would (arguably justifiably) consider appropriate for children. - Discussions of sex practices and lifestyles not part of an individual's frame of reference for 'normal'. For many in the US, 'not normal' means "not in the dark, missionary, under the covers, solely for the purpose of procreation within heterosexual monogamous marriage". An intellectually honest and open discussion of the spectrum of 'norma' in the US will include things many would not consider appropriate for an adult to discuss even in the context of a *purely* intellectual *discussion* with a 1 year old and many MORE (including me) would not consider those themes appropriate for somebody to discuss as an intellectual and utterly clinical topic without the permission and/or supervision of a parent or sanctioning body like a medical or teaching profession. - Images of art, art one can see in a museum, from Renaissance nudes to graphic antique, Incan, Japanese and Indian art depicting various sex acts. Images that are presented and discussed in an educational context as legitimate art. - LEGAL nudity in a locker room at a gym, at a strip club or even illegal but unenforced improper exposure at a concert or festival. In most *civilized* countries, the human body is not something kept covered in public the way it is in the U.S. SL users from Germany, Holland etc. may have wildly different standards for nudity in public than U.S. prudes. SL is a global service, not a US one. By LL opening the can of worms of having to navigate these and other nuances of what is and is not 'Adult' or even 'Mature', by allowing the under 18 on the main grid, we, the majority of the customer base are now at risk of losing our investment and businesses in SL to capricious and inconsistent enforcement or even legal exposure. Again, the problem isn't me offended by seeing the content of the underaged, it's my lack of tools not to ensure they don't see me to a *reasonable* degree of certainty. The solution is to stay in adult regions and only engage with the verified. The solution to SL being dumbed down, evacuated and made bland, boring and resolutely ignorant is for enough adults with anything but the most Disney-level of engagement in world to do likewise to make the nature of the primary revenue sources for LL obvious to LL and any would be buyer/investor. Don't kid yourself, if the 'most adult' thing you like is to dance and listen to Nine Inch Nails dressed up as a nominally topless succubus, you're at risk. If the most adult thing you like is to be able to quote Richard Prior or George Carlin in main chat, you're at risk. If the most adult thing you like is to claim running casinos is an integral component of Native American culture, you're at risk. If your idea of a good time is CCS, WARPS or DCS combat, you're at risk. If the most adult thing you do is to wear a collar around your neck with a particle chain to the hand of your SL (and maybe RL) dominant while you go out looking at art builds fully clothed, you're at risk. Heck, if you like having anything like a complete and meaningful debate about how inappropriate any or all of the above things are in polite society while you appear dressed in a three piece suit, you're at risk. *I* am adult content, - Kyle

Much more useful is a 'mute yourself and your content to all minors' option. The concern, to me anyway, isn't me hearing from them it's vice versa. I have no problem speaking to teenagers on principle, I just want to *know* who I'm speaking to and be able to effectively self censor as I would and do in RL. I come to SL for the freedom not to self censor and that freedom was safe to enjoy when one could assume an offended *adult* could just mute you. Plenty of confirmed adults are immature and unpleasant. I don't think it's fair to assume the #$%^& ratio will actually be worse among 16+ than the 18+. The concern is what *we* do and show to those LL has allowed into the service that's been 18+ since inception. LL's measures are unacceptably inadequate and my workaround is to only interact with those who can be seen in a region with verification in place. Had LL not done verification and, instead, simply left it up to the account creators to affirm they were over 18 then it was the problem of parents not LL or their users. LL took on a burden adopting verification that they never, ever, should have and now the consequences play out. - Kyle

What LL and Nany don't get is that *most* of the commerce and traffic in SL is to and about Adult Themed content. The dwell, the sticky content is adult themed. It's combat sims, it's role play sims, it's 'dance clubs', it's music events that are not consistently 'teen safe' by a long shot. It's clothing I would be horrified to see worn in RL. What it's not is Nany's content or content like it. I defy you to name any 10 'kid friendly' sims whose sustained traffic in AGGREGATE exceeds that of one established Gor RP sim. Tape over naughty bits will get you past LL's definitions but it won't get you past any definition I'd consider acceptable for the kids in *my* life. The 'kid safe content' available in SL is a tiny fraction of LL's revenue stream and all you have to do to see this is look at the green dots. LL's own advertising has always been tinged with the promise of the virtual 'hook up' and is even now. The 'partner' field in profiles has been there since, at least, 2006 and it sure as hell isn't primarily for RL married couples to flag that fact in their SL presence. Nany's constant board trolling and hypocritical positions aside it boils down to these questions: - Where's the traffic. It's not on G-rated sims? - How many 'Teen Regions' were there? 100? It's too small a market to damage the larger market with forced assimilation. - Does LL have any track record for effective security, privacy and content controls? No. So, since the Adults and the far more open-minded than Nany vastly outnumber the kids. Since there was no viable business model to operate a Teen Grid. Since we, adults, are put into jeopardy by LL's *both* implementing a mechanism for the *illusion* of Adult Verification *and* LL's unwillingness to provide Adults the means to detect and 'self censor' around the under-aged. Since by participating in human-evaluated editorial, LL foregoes claims of common carrier and safe harbor and, in so doing, jeopardizes our investments, we need to manage as best we can on our own. Then, the only solution for Adults is to forego the *much* smaller revenue potentials of serving the unverified market in order to avoid the *risks* created by LL in that market. The solution is to avoid interactions, and sales to, unverified users. Yes, verification absolutely sucks, when you make SL 'all ages' *and* you implement even lame verification, you move the liability to the content creators who don't use the available (bad) tools. Only by leaving the G-rated sims awash in Ruth do we make our unwillingness to have all the risk put on us as individuals an economic problem for LL. Our only option is to 'hit LL in the wallet' and not invest in creating or supporting content for unverified users. LL's business has been built on the backs of what customers who signed up for an 18+ service created and LL's business will not be grown showing such utter disregard for their established constituency. Your jobs, our jobs, are to serve *our* market and let LL lose money trying, and failing, to serve a market that doesn't exist.

Since LL have demonstrated they are utterly unwilling to listen to the concerns of their much larger user base of adult paying customers, here is my personal policy for dealing with this. I would urge you all to do likewise but, of course, your decisions are your own to make. - Do not respond to any IM from anyone you can't *see* (or haven't seen) in an Adult Age verfied region. Even if they bought your products don't respond with any thing other than: "I'm sorry, I can't help you until you can confirm you are Age Verified by LL by meeting me in an adult region. If you bought my product and want support, ask a parent or a teacher who is verified to contact me." - Check all your groups and confirm they are flagged as Adult, if not, do not say anything in group chat or notice. with anything but the minimum necessary to do business. - Do not rent or buy land except in Adult regions. - Don't go to any non-Adult regions and do not buy products sold in non-Adult regions. I make my societal contributions to the welfare of children in my first life. I came to the 18+ paid service that was Second Life, in part, to be free of those constraints in my Second Life. Don't be AR bait trying to be 'nice'. You pay for SL, you're entitled to be selective about who you spend your time with. That a side effect of this means I am also not going to be around adults who choose to spend their second lives with children is more than just a bonus, it's a way I can enjoy some freedom from creepy people. Don't want to be around kids here. Want, even less, to be around people who want to be around kids here. It's utterly absurd that LL gave us no means to see on contact who was and was not Adult Verified and their failure to do so will make the liable for the inevitable abuse of children that will follow. I hope they sleep well until the $%^& hits the fan. If you're going to reply to this and say "You like being here with your kids or with other people's kids because you're an educator." then fine, put your money where your mouth is and buy a G rated region and keep them there and out of the general population. If you want kids around the fanged, latexed, horned, winged, tape-nippled, leather-clad even just dancing general population, in my opinion, you're a creep in denial at best and a predator at worst. Don't like that view? Fine, we're all entitled to our own opinions. - Kyle

/me rubs his hands together and speaks conspiratorially in a tone sounding like a perfect cross between Mr. Burns and Peter Cook in Bedazzled: "Licensing arrangements can be made. Contact me in-world."

Welcome Kim, By now, you've probably figured out you have a bit of a mess on your hands. I'll presume to offer two bits of advice: 1) Watch what people *DO*. Don't just read these boards or take surveys. Make an ALT, keep it a secret from EVERYONE maybe even especially from your employer, and try to 'live' in SL a bit. Go where the people congregate. Look for the clumps of green dots not the huge swaths of owned but largely empty land. See it *all* from Combat sims, to vanilla music clubs to clothes malls to perv clubs. Look at the 'education' projects and how often they are basically spatially laid out aggregations of web or web-like content and that NOBODY GOES THERE. see how *well* many groups have found ways to 'educate' in SL for things not traditionally 'education'. (building, RP, marketing etc.) See what people do and ENJOY. *PRETEND*, let your freak flag out a little. Engage meaningfully and anonymously with people from all extremes of SL as if you were a peer. Look at the TRAFFIC as you do it. 2) Consider that, under all the Real Estate business, the clothing making, the thousands of sex products, the power of SL is individual expression. Sometimes it's building. Sometimes it's an AV. Sometimes it's roleplay. Sometimes it's commerce. Sometimes it's a bit of everything. Just watch people. Look how many profiles are rich, detailed and engaging about the person in SL but put up a wall against RL incursion. Realize that people come to SL to live a 'second life'. Sometimes it's as simple as a safe escape from the tedium of daily life. Sometimes it's a full-blown explosion of personality. Ever wonder why you don't typically see brand names from RL brands on people's clothes? It's not because people respect trademarks and IP. It's because, in general, people live something *unreal* about themselves here. I'll give you one example. A friend I won't name spent most of 'her' time here on an ALT. She is a consumer of music, art, socialization and, yes, sexual exploration. In RL? She's a he and a technical person at one of SL's largest corporate customers. SL for 'her' fun? It was a way to be part of himself in a *Second Life*. People are *way* weirder than you think and, in the end, that makes them as or more normal than most could possibly imagine. Don't make SL unsafe for the inner oddities *everyone* has even if the 'odd' is a passion for replicating a Monet in 3D or wearing elf ears or shooting at people NoR or playing out a soap opera in a Gor sim. Look at the ODDNESS of people and their joy in having the freedom to be odd. Oh, here's a bonus.... Emerald. Yeah, they screwed up 20 ways from Sunday. Yeah, they needed to be dealt with. Yeah, if I was in charge of the TPV program I'd have come down on them like a ton of bricks months ago. BUT.... the viewer? People LOVE it. They are all running around (we, I'm on the list) looking for an alternative before LL yanks the plug on Emerald. NONE of them want Viewer 2. Virtually ALL of them have tried it. It's EXTRA work to find, download and install Emerald. It's EXTRA scary not to use the official viewer. It's HARDER to feel you'll get support and yet... what did so many choose? Ask yourself what LL might learn from why SO many people preferred Emerald and why LL has already had to backtrack on the design of Viewer 2. Perhaps it's time to look for a plan to make people *WANT* to choose the official viewer? - Kyle who will give you a tour in world and won't out your ALT.