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Cathy Foil

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Blog Comments posted by Cathy Foil

    Nelson Linden

    Posted

    Rene Erlanger  says

    its comparing apples with orange regarding the type of platforms they all are.....but why IMVU was brought up? ....and you can also add WoW, Habbo Hotel & Everquest too.They all managed to grow their user bases during the recession (i.e since 2008)....and Second Life didn't.

    They all spent money on various forms of marketing (WoW -TV & Internet ads, IMVU Internet banner adverts, Habbo Hotel internet banner adverts, Everquest has Sony WW marketing).....Linden Labs by contrast spent very little on direct advertising & marketing

    You (LL) reap what you sow

    Rene you are a very interesting person.  On one hand you criticize other people who compare SL business practices with other platforms like IMVU.  Then in the very next paragraph you compare SL to other platforms inferring that LL should have done what those other platform have done.

    By the way I thoroughly  enjoyed the YouTube video link you provided.  Thanks!

    Nelson Linden

    Posted

    Rene Erlanger  says

    Nope, we're SECOND LIFE, not IMVU...nor do we want to be a copy of it. Despite LL's inability to make the right decisions & strategies over the last few years.....Second Life is still a superior and better product than IMVU.

    Rene not being willing to look at how and why another very similar virtual community, which is thriving and growing, is being as closed minded as LL has been to your ideas.

    Nelson Linden

    Posted

    Vivienne Schell  says in response to Cathy Foil:

    Why should Ferrari copy a bcyicle? Only cause more people ride a bicycle than a ferrari right now, at 1:15?

    An don´t oversestimate Mesh imports. IMVU has it, right? The result is ... trash.

    Well Vivienne when twice as many people chose a bicycle over a Ferrari when they are both free.  It be stupid for the management of Ferrari not to find out why and see if they could adopt some of the same business practices.  Especially when the dealerships sales are down and can't pay their rents because there is not enough customers.

    Nelson Linden

    Posted

    Actingill Igaly  says:

    I've watched the comments on this blog with interest over the last few days, and although tempted, have so far refrained from passng comment.  That was until Cathy's post. I'm sorry Cathy, but I fail to see any reason why SL should aspire to be like IMVU.

    Actingill I only want SL to be consider emulating IMVU finer points.  Because I believe it is those finer points that are why IMVU has over twice as many people logging in each day.  Right now at 1:15 AM SL Time SL has 39,005 people logged in.  IMVU has 80,068.  That is why SL should aspire to be more like IMVU.

    I don't want to dumb down SL.  I agree with you that in almost every way SL is superior technically.  Where I think IMUV is superior to SL is one better management, two ease of use for the casual user, encouragement of new members to buy goods, encouraging the creation of fun places for those members so they keep coming back and keep buying products.

    I think your idea of having two viewers, one especially geared for new and casual users that is easy to use and a second viewer or content creators is a great idea.  Though I wouldn't restrict the content creators viewer to only premium accounts.

    You will have to forgive me but I don't think the idea of banning all in world sales is ridiculous, radical yes, potentially hazardous yes, flies in the face of everything SL stands for no, SL doesn't stand for anything.  It is just a virtual world where LL can make any rules it wants and can change them at anytime.  Like I said it would take radical changes to the way money flows in SL.  It could have some great advantages but it could also kill SL in the transition.  The same way your suggestion of getting rid of the Marketplace could also kill SL and is a radical suggestion.  Perhaps less risky than banning in world shopping but it could also have its benefits.

    Vivienne Schell  says in response to Cathy Foil:

    IMVU is pure crap. The content there is about ten times worse than anything of quality you can see in SL. It´s not a Virtual Reality, it´s a more or less ugly, restricted 3D chat room.

    There are only three major advantages:

    1.- It is bloody cheap (yes, cheap)

    2. It is rock solid reliable

    3. It is extremely simple

    And that´s it. SL is the by far superior environment by almost all means. And, you know, if you give people a choice, two thirds of them will go pulp, and only one third will go Shakespeare

    I agree with you for the most part Vivienne.  SL is superior to IMVU in almost every technically way.  I agree with you also that the majority of items for sale there are inferior to most of what is produced here in SL but with a few exceptions.  I saw a few amazing creations for sale that equal or maybe even surpass the best things I seen in SL.  This is mainly do to IMVU having mesh imports and SL not.  I have no doubt that on the first day mesh import is available in SL that nothing in IMVU will come close.

    Nelson Linden

    Posted

    After reading a number of posts mentioning IMVU, I decided to check it out for myself.  As I am writing this is it is Saturday 2:30 pm SL time.  SL has 70,341 people logged in.  IMVU has 141,773 people logged in.

    So after my exploration of IMVU here are some suggestions of what I would do if I were LL.  This post is not an advertisement for IMVU just what they are doing right and I think LL should emulate from their example.

    I must say IMVU is doing so many things right especially when it comes to new users almost all of which could be implemented here in SL by LL.  For example as you sign up for your free account if you pick the options that benefit IMVU you receive more Credits.  Credits are the main currency of IMVU.   While I didn’t take all the options to get the maximum amount of credits I still got 2,000 credits which is the equivalent of L$200.  Something I had been suggesting LL give new freebie accounts for years.

    While L$200 does not sound like a lot in IMVU for example shoes on average cost around 600 credits or L$60 in SL money.  Same quality of shoes in SL I seen for L$500 and more.  So 2,000 credits goes a lot farther than L$200.

    Another thing IMVU is doing is give all new freebie accounts their own “Room”.  The room is basically the same as a skybox here in SL with basic furnishings.  It comes with a kitchen, living room, open space for a bedroom and dinning table. What this does is encourage new accounts to use their credits to customize their rooms.

    Now this “Room” or in SL terms Skybox is not rezzed in world like we think of it.  Rather than it is rezzed in its own universe just hanging there in black empty space though the light in the room is always bright day light.  This means no lag from other surrounding skyboxes.  No one can just pop in on you.    The outside of the walls are transparent so if you move your camera to the outside of it you can still see the interior.  The maximum number of avatars in one room is 10 avatars and they can not walk or fly just move from pose ball to pose ball.  Well, the equivalent of pose balls here in SL.

    As far as I can tell there is no in world selling the only place to buy things is on their Marketplace called the Catalog.   What this does is instead of having mall after mall or shop after shop it encourages everyone to build interesting and exciting places for people to come and visit and hangout.  If you see something you like you just right mouse click on the ground and click on “View products in this scene” and a webpage will open up where you can buy the items in that location no matter who created them.  This means no need for in world shops.

    Doing this puts the in world experience emphasis on creating fun and entertaining places for the vast majority to hang out and socialize.  I mean really in SL how many malls and shops can one walk around in before the majority of users get bored and log off and perhaps never log on again.  Remember here in SL the vast majority of residents don’t create anything to sell they are customers for the minority who are the content creators.  If the majority doesn’t have fun in world that means fewer perhaps eventually no customers no income to pay our tiers and rents.

    The last really great thing IMVU has that SL doesn’t is a preview or demo widow that lets you try just about everything before you buy it.  The window is small and your avatar is the only one allowed in it but you can try one clothes, hair, shoes, furniture, buildings just about everything before you buy.  This really encourages people to buy things.  They know exactly what they are going to get.

    Finally everything, except for textures, is brought in through a mesh import.  This gives the creators the freedom we here in SL are looking forward to when we get mesh import.

    So after my experience as a new user in IMVU here is what I think LL should consider doing.

    1.     Give all new accounts even freebies a few hundred Lindens to start with.  Make it so they can only use them on the Market Place website.

    2.     Give everyone a free skybox or “Room” just like on IMVU.  You can’t walk or fly just move from pose ball or chair or bed by clicking on them.  Make these skyboxes off by themselves so no neighbors, no sky, no night, no ground just black empty space around the room.  Limit the number of avatars that can be invited into the owners room say like 4 or 5 at a time.  No LMs to the rooms the person who owns the room has to invite others in.  No streaming music or video unless you have two or more avatars in the room.  Allow a reasonable number of prims for the rooms but also let the skybox space be 100% modifiable so if someone wants to put up a different skybox or scene they can.  With the limitations of not being able to walk or fly or have music and video, until they have more than one avatar in the room, many will opt to buying land or renting in world to have those things.

    3.     Consider banning all in world shopping.  But if this happens land tiers and fees must be dropped to a few dollars a month for a sim.  This will encourage land owners to create fun places for people to come have fun in SL and buy things.

    4.     Get a preview system for the Market Place website like IMVU’s Catalog website has.

    I know these idea seem radical especially number three but if you really think about it creating a world where the emphasis is on the enjoyment of the consumer will benefit the content creators which will them benefit LL.

    Jack.Linden

    Posted

    I doubt if LL will disable mega prims over 64 meters on the main SL grid.  I rezzed a few mega prims on the test mesh grid and I was able to resize them up to 64 meters if they were smaller than 64 meters.  If you try to resize anything larger than 64 meters it snaps down to 10 meters.  You can then stretch it back up to 64 meters.  This is true for mega prims and regular prims and also sculpties.

    In the edit build window you can type in the size for X Y and Z but only up to 10 meters.  Between 10 and 64 meters you have to drag the scale handles.  I hope they change that.

    There are quite a few giant meshes floating up in the air.  What I suspect happened was someone rezzed a mesh on the ground and it was so big that since it rezzed several hundred meters up in the air.  If their draw distance was set to only 128 meters they would not even be able to see it and not realized they had rezzed such a large mesh.

    I myself rezzed a 765 meter long dolphin I have been working on.  I hadn't realized the scale at which I had created it.  I rezzed it three times then happen to look up and saw them.  Luckily I had my draw distance set to 512 or I would not have seen them.  I thought perhaps there was a glitch.

    I hope that there will be some way in the upload program to tell people how big something is that they are about to upload.

    Biggest thing I seen was a 3500 meter tall gorilla.  Actually best I could do was to see his face and fly around to see different parts of his body and that was with my draw distance set at 512 meters.  If someone rezzes something that big and you are inside it you don't even know it even if the mesh is solid.  Once inside a mesh it is hollow.

    Hope that helps.

    Jack.Linden

    Posted

    Hi Storyof,

    I can answer a few of your questions.

    The viewer used for the Mesh Import testing on the Beta Grid will not overwrite any other viewers you may have installed on your computer.  Here is the link to it http://secondlife.com/support/downloads/

    You want to load the one from the "Second Life Project Viewers" section:

    MESH (ADITI) NOTE: Aditi is the name of the test grid.

    Mesh is an upcoming feature that will allow creators to model objects using external tools and then import them into Second Life.

    When you log on with this viewer it will automatically log you onto the Beta Grid named Aditi.  You then have to look up using your Map any sim with the name "Mesh" in it.  There are like 40 mesh sandboxes.  Only the sims with Mesh in the name can mesh objects be seen and uploaded.

    For a FREE good easy to learn 3D Graphics program to make your meshes with I suggest starting with the FREE Google Sketchup program.  You don't want the Pro version because that costs money.  I find Sketchup much easier to make things than it is build with normal regular prims in SL. 

    Here is the link to where you can get it.  It is Sketchup 8 which just came out:

    http://sketchup.google.com/intl/en/download/index.html

    Great thing about Sketchup 8 is it can export as a Collada DAE file format which is the type of file you use to upload your mesh to SL.

    As far as texturing in Sketchup it is a lot like texturing a regular prim in SL.  You can also do a projected texture.  A projected texture is like making a white clay model and then taking a slide projector and projecting the image onto the clay model.  You have more controls than just that but that gives you an idea.

    There are plenty of how to videos up on YouTube for Sketchup.  Sketchup is the first 3D Graphics program I learned.  I am actually learning it again because many things are easier to make in Sketchup than in Maya.  I figure those things I can do in Sketchup and then export them into Maya to do the things Maya does the best there.

    Lastly yes things on the test grid can be stretched bigger than 10 meters.  The limit is 64 meters I believe but if a mesh was made bigger than 64 meters it will come in bigger than 64 meters.

    Sketchup has a figure of a woman standing in the middle.  She is like 5 feet tall so if you were to bring her into the test grid she be 5 feet tall.  There is also a tape measure in Sketchup to you can see exactly how big your mesh will be before you export it as a Collada DAE file.

    You are going to be blown away when you see what mesh looks like.  Just don't right mouse click on any mesh that is not yours.  Half the time I crash when I do.  You can right mouse click on your own mesh object to edit them.

    Anyway I hope that helps.

    Jack.Linden

    Posted

    Hi Vivienne.  I use an older version of Maya which all the new Collada plugins don't work with.  My work around is to export out of Maya as an FBX then I use the Autodesk FBX Converter which is FREE. http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/item?siteID=123112&id=10775855#section7

    There are versions there for Windows, Mac and Linux.  If your program can not save in FBX format the converter can take OBJs and convert it to FBX then convert it a second time to Collada DAE using the same program.  You will lose your normals and have to generate them in the upload window.

    If you are able to export out of your own program as an FBX, as I do with my older Maya, you will not lose your normals when you use the Autodesk FBX Converter to make your Collada DAE files.

    The Autodesk FBX Converter can also convert other formats to FBX as well.  3DS, DAE, DXF and of course OBJs.  I have only tried it with OBJs.  The FBX files and DAE files end up being bigger than when I export out of Maya as a FBX and then use the Autodesk FBX Converter but after I upload them to the open beta test grid and rez them they end up with the same prim costs and shape.

    I haven't tried textures yet.

    I hope this helps.

    Jack.Linden

    Posted

    Darien brings up a good point about not having a standard UV set new mesh human avatar bodies.

    What will make a good selling point for those who do make human avatar meshes is to make sure the custom UVs for the mesh are compatible with the standard avatar UVs.  Yes this is possible just more work.

    I am guessing that one would have to attache several meshes layered on top of each other to simulate the different clothing layers.

    The biggest draw back would be that clothing and skin designers would have to sell the clothes and skins with the textures included so that the individual mesh owners could apply them to their meshes.

    Another posibility is that the creator of mesh jackets, pants and tops would be smart to make available Photoshop file templates of the UVs for those things they make so that other clothing designers could design new looks for those mesh.

    Why let another designer make textures for a mesh you create?  As long as the person who bought your mesh to wear continutes to wear that mesh and not get tired of it because they can update the look by buying a new texture for it they will continute to be a walking advertisement for your mesh.

    People who like the mesh they see on another avatar will right mouse click on the mesh and see who created it.  The longer some one wears the mesh the more likely it will generate a new sale.

    Jack.Linden

    Posted

    I am so super excited about mesh import.

    Yes mesh will probably shake things up in the economy to the detriment of some but mostly to the benefit of all.

    SL has to grow and evolve or it will die.

    Those worried about their businesses I ask would you rather not have mesh and have that business for just a few more years at best or would you rather add mesh and see SL thrive and be around for another ten years?

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