bunboxmomo

Unfortunately as an Estate level function, this does as it is currently implemented apply to ALL regions in an estate or NO regions in an estate. Hence the gap in implementation.

They would be renting yes, but they would also have RO rights. The point is these can not be safely asumed as being the same thing, and there can be gaps in implementation if this assumption is made. Logistically speaking they are arenter, but in terms of the actual permissions systems and user experience they have the same experience as an RO as someone who is a RO/EO.

I getcha, just explaining the edge case (well hardly an edge case given how large these providers are these days)

No, if purchasing it from LL it would always be part of your own estate. There are region providers who give RO rights while retaining EO rights (and the region in an estate with it). These estates can be tens to hundreds of regions large, and can be made up of all private islands, all owned by different people and diffierent communities. Some of which may want to enable deny_bots and are unable to do so, as this is an estate function and doing so would affect other ROs who may be using bots in their region.

In that scenario, the RO would also be the EO, asuming they are not renting the region (with RO rights) from a region provider.

It is very often, but not always the case, that the RO is also the EO. This is not however set in stone and while it is not the experience of many people, it is the experience of some. The reason for this common assumptions is historically there are many land barons who do not give RO, and people who bought land from LL directly, are both RO and EO. Today however, it is a thing, especially with the size WRE is, but WRE is not the only provider who does this, and while it's historically been safe to asume Region and Estate can be equated as the same thing, its not really the case today, even if for many it is.

It's been over a decade, cut me some slack, we scanned for something. Probably teeth or something.

Yep and as mentioned, this should be changed. As it stands, it leaves ROs who don't also own the Estate itself but want to block all scripted agents, unable to use the option due to the massive widespread impact it would have on other regions within that estate, some of which would be communities that make use of scripted agents for their own functions on their own private islands. Estate level is good, but there should also be a region level.

Mam with all due respect, this is standard practice in many places, so it is reality. You're welcome to say you feel LL would be unable as a company to do that and I would do disagree and we can leave it at that.

Not actually accurate M. I myself have owned regions, that are part of larger estates, despite being a private island. There are rental services that provide full region rental with Region Owner rights. These sims are affected. WRE is one example, and is one of the largest providers of land in SL, there are others this affects too.

Yep! Estate level function, not region. So this only works for private islands that are part of their *own* estate as well. Hence why this should *also* be a region level function too.

Clearly I am not a human and am actually a bot being run by GPT-4, and my algorithm incorrectly identified my response as code internally and compelled me to add a ;

Not really an option for people who own regions, but not the estate. Take for example WRE, which offers rental *and region ownership* of entire regions. Even though such a region is not physically connected to other regions in WRE's estate, enabling the option would enable it in over 600 regions, regardless of the views of other region owners. (This would result in problems for communities who use bots as part of their own systems in their region or communities!) As a result, this really should be a region level function as well.

It's an estate function, not a region function. (It really should be a region function too honestly, even if not entirely datatight.)

DID I SERIOUSLY JUST END MY POST IN A SEMI-COLON OUT OF HABIT BECAUSE I WROTE PSUEDOCODE AND TRIGGERED THAT HABITUAL ENDING OF LINES WITH ;??? God I need to go out and touch some grass. I could edit that mistake out of the original post, but it's funny enough that I'm going to leave that in.

I think they point they are trying to make is that being aware a bot is near by doesn't actually do anything to prevent LSL from collecting data, or bots that collect data from collecting data, and would only serve to heighten "AAAAAAAAAAAA" while having no real actually benefit other than producing anxiety, so it is better to target actual solutions. I would say though that if someone wants to know if a user is a bot and we have llGetObjectDetails(...[SCRIPTED_AGENT_STATUS...]) then more power to them if they want a watch that does that imo?;

The short answer is no they cannot due to how SL data structures and sim data works for a viable outcome. The long answer is no they cannot due to how SL data structures and sim data works for a viable outcome, but the limitations that exist that prevent this are because private parcels are not "truly" private, and in the interest of better resident choice over their own land it would be worth a project working on how this data is handled so that "private" parcels are *actually* private on the data level, not just "what is rendered" level. This is would take some work, but it would be worth, not because of bots, but because a user who clicks "private parcel" pprobably has the mistaken assumption that they can't be seen, and this should be fixed in how data is presetned to viewers and LSL so that the actual result of that tick, reflects what is actually expected when it's clicked. This would have the side effect of then making parcel level bot restrictions viable. In the interm, scripted agent visibility via LSL for LSL solutions to this would be good. So I would like to see an internal team at LL established to produce an internal brief on the viability of the idea of bringing into line that disconnect between UX and actuality, and what challenges would be involved, what limitations, what impact and if this is viable or not, and then if so perhaps implement this. A team dedicated to evaluating modernisation of parts of code that by their nature present challenges to larger operation if changed, that aims to evaluate potential changes and explore the options of that, would be nice to see at LL, as there are many points of SL's structure and codebase that could benefit from this that are generally left alone because of how deep the code is or how much depends on it and how much would potentially break with changes done without proper planning and these parts of the codebase often present additional obstacles to feature implementation, such as in this case parcel level controls I know coffee protested quite hard about this, but this is a thing that many production standard projects do and old heavily depended on spaghetti code is often reivewed and changed bit by bit over time to effect change, where changing parts of codebase can be potentially project breaking, such as is the case here. The concept is not that wild and it'd be nice to see a team exist at LL for this like at other developer teams, and if one already exists, it would be nice to see one address this topic.

I suddenly realise I could modify this script and sell a "Surface to Bot Missile Based Ban System" if we got scripted agent flag access in LSL and probably make a lot of L$. 🤔

Lol I remember this. In the MLP community we had to outright ban bloodlines, because we had vampires coming to our sims to prey on users who had signed up for SL *exclusively* for our community who didn't know better and would go "Hey do you want some cool free vampire teeth? :D" I remember scripting a "Surface to Vampire Missile System" that would scan for bloodlines HUD attachments and then fire a novelty missile at the user, executing a ban from estate command after the calculated time to impact had elapsed to make something more comical and fun out of the situation for our sim visitors.

Have been following. Just burned out of SL over the experience of this thread. I'm glad voices like Scyllia's exist in this thread which raise the same things being said, and I've been also glad to see Quartz Mole bring some rationality to the discussion, but I feel there were a few individuals who I wont name who's attitudes towards other people I feel does not foster healthy discussion and I'm concerned about the prevelance of those views or attitudes towards fellow residents. On a personal note, While I am glad to see deny_bots, I am concerend about how a stealth data collection "bot" would be easy to make from a pure LSL approach and used as an attachment and people thinking this needs a bot to work, has resulted in disprotionate targeting of legitimate uses on a speculative nature that "stop the bots and secure my privacy" or as scyllia put it well before a non-human based solution, that ultimately in the context of unauthorised data collection goes missed without changes to LSL and the way data is handled in SL to allow resident more granular control over data exposure from their persons and land, and a hyper-fixation on scripted agents is contributing to a "missing of targets" when it comes the issue of user privacy in my opinion. I still remain unchanged in my views that residents should be allowed to to choose to deny (or perhaps allow bots onto their land), but should also be able to control "data leakage" via a *true" private parcel settings, with requried changes to LSL and data structures even if a long term project to allow for human solutions rather than a top down approach. I do also still remain concerned and disheartened about the amount of assumptions of malintent upon fellow residents via justification of speculation as fact that I saw in this thread. I'm in support of the changes in scripted agent access, but it has been disheartening to see rampant assumptions of bad faith in each other.

Thank you, it's been happening a lot in this thread.

Well then congratulations, you've successfully convinced me. I've been in SL for 14 years, I've always advocated as a great way to learn how to code to non-coders, I've brought people into SL, I've run communities, I've built regions and I've always wanted to see ways SL could be made better for the platform and it's residents. I was someone hopeful about where SL is going and enthusiastic and excited to see where the platform would go. I was happy to see the deny_bots flag, and I was hopeful to see more efforts like that. But in the space of 2-3 days in this thread, I have become increasingly horrified with what I can only describe as a cult of hate towards anyone who holds any opinion other than total derision and contempt towards bot developers. I've seen that then spill out as it intensified over a series of days into developers in general. Even those who agree with you, but just not in the way you are 100% happy with. I know this is only a slither of the actual population in SL and their views, but just seeing how much of it is here, is makign it very difficult to feel I want to do anything in SL. Churn is a thing, but to celebrate and see it as a reason to justify egregiously unfair and spiteful attitudes towards other fellow residents, that just a creates a pit in my stomach, that I think I need to take a while to let pass if at all. So I'm going to bounce out following this, maybe I'll get back into SL at some point or I'll keep my focus on other things. But I have to say, these kinds of attitudes towards other people, it's horrible. Please in your future interactions with people, try be mindful that everyone is in SL because they love the platform, and while we all have different views and opinions on what's best for it, very few people other than those who are intentionally malicious, are good-intentioned and actually willing to talk about things if there is actual respect given back and forth. I have some obligations I'll stick around for, but only really as much as I need to. Other than that, I'm taking a break.

Surprisingly, we actually agree on this, but this has to be a smooth transition with redundant functionality for a period of time. If you hard break everything, people aren't going to be inspired to make new things to replace it, they'll just go "oh sod this then". Some will pick up that mantle, as triggered as I am right now by your attitude in how you've been towards me, I have to admit I would probably be one of them who would, but that kind of stance towards developers would not endear many and push even more away over time. No one wants to feel like a persecuted class within a platform they love, and the way you're speaking right now, is really doing that. (I'll be honest, I've been working VRC stuff for the first time in ages after being active in this thread. That's not a direct result, but I've found myself less drawn to SL by some of the things I've seen said about people here and I'm noticing it having an effect on where I spend my time. It's all unconcious processes, but I'm aware enough to notice it, and I'm sure this would be something other developers would feel too)

Absolutley and you've been following my posts long enough on this thread, you know I'm in support of that.