Skyler Pancake

April 20

Let's be real. LL will talk about doing something. They'll release some half assed "solution."

Then everything else will be ignored and nothing will actually change.

This is why we need a change in leadership with Linden Lab. They are too content with what exists and aren't actually interested or capable of pushing for progress.

February 27

12 hours ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Lots. There's unfortunately no good replacement. I primarily use it to follow food, fashion, travel, music, art, gaming, and crafting news, blogs, and magazines. I also follow a few good independent journalists and legal analysts for news and super boring things the majority of people have little interest in (live tweets from courtrooms where cams aren't allowed, on-the-ground in-crowd coverage of protests, events, natural disasters, etc.).

Peeve: Definitely not a fan of what Twitter has become, but there's nowhere else I can get access to similar things easily without having a zillion tabs open simultaneously.

Bluesky! Still getting used to it myself, but it's by the original founder of Twitter who suddenly has a lot of money to make sure it's done proper.

February 9

On 1/24/2024 at 4:02 AM, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Good luck with that, there is NO reliable test any mere user can make to tell an AFK avatar from a bot, or from somebody who just doesn't want to talk to some random outsider guy who THINKS he's entitled to a conversation.

None.

AFK bots that just sit on the same region are a bit more difficult to prove.. But it can be proven occasionally by region restarts. If after a restart the account logs back in and immediately returns to it's position, the position that it's always constantly at, there's a very good chance it's a bot. Monitor a few more restarts and I'd say you could 99% conclude if it's a bot or not.

Roaming bots are actually SUPER easy to identify. There's an individual (The whole not being able to link or name people policy on here is utter BS) who has done considerable work setting up monitors all over SL that track behavior patterns and can easily distinguish bots. If you were to Google "roaming bots secondlife" you might be able to find out some more information.

On 1/30/2024 at 12:36 PM, JUSTUS Palianta said:

The owner of bonnie bots is taking the micky out of us.

Just saw NotAnotherBonnieBotMakeItStop pop up at my home sim.

That's not a Bonnie as the name states. There are tens of thousands of bot accounts at this point, with roughly 10,000 active, and a few hundred roaming the grid constantly. There's also hundreds of fake Bonnies at this point. If you're not sure if it's a real Bonnie you can check the group profile for Cult of Bonnie, as we regularly kick out fakes, or just check the website. There's 12 accounts that roam, one that sits at our home region, and one that gets brought on occasionally for testing or requests. If you ask nicely, you might be able to get some Bonnies to visit an event your hosting!

On 1/30/2024 at 6:46 PM, Arielle Popstar said:

Someone should create a script that lets you chain them up in the dungeon.

You jest, but this might already be happening.. Just without the chains or dungeon. I know a few people who like to trap and toy with random bots. They can really make your soccer game much more enjoyable if you've got a big enough hamster ball.

September 23, 2023

13 hours ago, Garnet Psaltery said:

I have two further things to say about bots.

1) I don't particularly like being spied on bots but I'm also concerned about their use of region resources. The number of them visiting is not insignificant, although I haven't the technical knowledge to determine whether that number is significantly detrimental to region performance.

2) I think they're smelly and nasty and should go away.

Although it's possible for a bot to briefly(as in 5-30 seconds) cause region performance loss due to the scripts they initiate it's usually extremely minimal and as mentioned does not last long. The real region resource abuse that happens is with AFK accounts, such as AFK sex places and Tiny Empire, who will leave accounts idling on regions. This limits the availability for other accounts to access those regions as well as degrades the region performance. Most of the time these aren't actually bot accounts though, just alt accounts logged in to regular viewers on a secondary computer.

10 hours ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

The bots largely just seem to be fulfilling a simple purpose of gathering data, the most important task being determining where people actually are on the grid.

This is a feature that is missing from SL, it's hard to find out where is currently populated and the bots largely seem to focus on providing this information. They do other things too but they seem to have primarily appeared so that websites can publish live information on regions.

I've always wondered why LL don't provide this information themselves but they don't, the server is capable of it though and you do get this information for locations featured in the destination guide. A common noobie question is "where is everyone?" and while there are some ways of finding everyone - mainly by looking around the grid map - it's imperfect and I think new people do notice the lack of a simple list of where's hot now.

To this end I'm really not bothered by them.

LL has a longstanding history of relying on users to provide services. After all, why pay to create and maintain a service that you can get someone else to provide for you?

9 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

There was one Forumite - I am not certain if it was Coffee Pancake - who gave examples where they were clearly being "griefed" by Bots (bots continually gathering at their parcel, etc.). Whether they had angered the owner of a Bot operator, etc. I do not recall.

In any case, it was an example where Bots were clearly being used for nefarious reasons.

These weren't bots. They were alt accounts being used to "troll" her. She posted a picture of a "Bonnie" visiting her, which was clearly an imposter and the picture looked incredibly staged. Considering some of the other claims made, I'm skeptical of much Coffee states regarding bots. That said, Coffee does seem to be coming from good intentions and does make some awesome contributions to SL.

2 hours ago, Ceka Cianci said:

Did they ever implement it on any of the linden homes regions?

All registered scripted agents are banned from Bellisseria. This ban does not include the original Linden Home regions. We were unfortunately forced to remove all of our features involving the Linden Homes, despite our partnership with the BBB and the content being extremely helpful for residents looking for a new home. This decision is honestly the one I disagree with and regret the most from the outcomes this last spring.

September 23, 2023

I would like an achievement for having successfully petted Patch's ears.

Also for pick-pocketing Walton Wainwright and successfully "stealing" his pocket watch.

September 23, 2023

5 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Seems to me this could have just as easily been done with a Pop up similar to a ToS update, which wouldn't have required TPV's to make any changes on their end or required a delay while they made the required changes.

The number of scripts ran and the damage that could be done within the even milliseconds of an account logging in, being connected to the grid, and then given a pop up dialog to confirm if they should even be logged in.. Welp, there goes your inventory, your friends list, all your money...

The whole point of MFA is to prevent the completion of a login event until the account ownership is verified via the MFA. That can only be done via viewer update.

September 23, 2023

14 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I suspect they fall into 2 categories:

- Reputable Bot operators for grid surveys, etc.

- Companies like BB who most likely feel pressure to comply due to all the negative publicity.

Anyone else, why bother?

All of the BB bots were marked as Scripted Agents at the creation of the accounts. We had one of our accounts fraudulently reported as being unregistered and after much back and forth with LL we were able to get it unbanned, as it had never been registered as anything other than a Scripted Agent.

We've actually experimented with a number of different methods to identify if an account is a bot or not and if they're registered. I've helped a number of bot operators make sure their bots are actually registered and have reported a number of bot operators who clearly had no interest in registering their accounts. We are very much in support of people openly sharing information about their bots and the information the bots gather.. Sharing information about Second Life and how people use it is what we're all about after all.

As to bots being used to maintain the active user count.. Don't forget all the people who AFK. I used to stay logged in 24/7 for months at a time. There are also a LOT of accounts that aren't strictly bots but are left logged in for various reasons, including games such as Tiny Empire. I've talked with a number of people who keep multiple alt accounts logged in as well for various reasons, often times for RP. If your concurrent user count is being scrapped from the map, which is how most groups do it, then I'd suggest figuring at least 10-20k of the users online are not actual unique users.

The individual who I'd say has done the best to track bot accounts in SL is Lou Netizen. https://lounetizen.com Lou uses a number of methods to track and identify bot groups and has done an amazing job at cataloging them. Lou is also amazingly respectful about privacy, so if you do run one of the bot cohorts and want to clarify what your cohort does but doesn't want your name shared please do message Lou and talk with her!

May 22, 2023

I think I figured out why this move by LL upset me so much.

Second Life has been my escape from all the horrible *****ty things going on in this world. It's a place where I've been able to find friends, find a creative medium, find some solace for myself.

There's been some hard moments. There's been some tears.

But overall, Second Life has been a place I can feel welcomed and joyful.

Seeing them create something that is so blatantly exploitive.. Made me realize that we're less separated from the abuses going on in first life than I'd like. That at the end of the day, Second Life remains less about the community and more about the profit.

May 18, 2023

We're at almost 40 pages of posts on this subject, over a week in, and there's still not been a single peep out of Linden Lab.

Someone up high is crossing their fingers and chanting "They'll stop talking about it, they'll stop talking about it..."

May 18, 2023

4 hours ago, Persephone Emerald said:

least people were getting some value for their money. I played gatcha machines a few times. I bought gatcha items on MP. One of my favorite items from the last 6 month is a set of hair and HUDs from a Meipon vendor. My biggest problem with gatchas was that they made it hard to buy exactly what I wanted, not that they were addictive.

This "social casino" thing is so much worse because the only thing it's selling *is* the addiction.

I was definitely one of the people who'd go a bit bonkers on gacha. However, I'd only play those that I knew had resell value or that I would be able to use. The super popular ones I'd just go on the MP and buy what I wanted. My friend though.. She wouldn't care and would drop 5-20k trying to get whatever rare it was she wanted. It was definitely a bit of an addiction for her.

May 17, 2023

26 minutes ago, Istelathis said:

After reading the thread and participating in it as well, often being of the mind that people should be responsible for themselves, it was @Jaylinbridgesshared video that I think I may feel LL should not partake in allowing the whales to beach themselves. I find that frustrating, because I am usually against telling others how they should spend their money, it creates a complete cognitive dissonance from my own ethics.

I shouldn't be telling others how to spend their money, but then I don't want to see the whales beaching themselves.

I'm generally of the same mindset. As long as someone isn't hurting others, I'm not one to involve myself.

If LL had actually taken proper measures to actively address the potential for gambling addiction, I would have rolled my eyes at the casino and moved on. Simple acts of removing the pay to play feature, requiring you to read and acknowledge gambling addiction awareness before you can play, or even limiting the amount of tokens you can buy per day to something extremely minimal would help appease my concerns.

May 17, 2023

3 hours ago, Persephone Emerald said:

@Skyler Pancake

Don't leave over this casino debacle. I believe LL will sort this out and fix their image.

In the meantime, they've also added a very nice Victorian social region & the BelliHuB & BelliDemo island, both of which have non-gambling games to encourage socialization.

Honestly, if it weren't for the ridiculously high stakes games, real money ATMs, & no prizes to spend winnings on, the casino idea could be ok. All my avatars have been able to win a bit at Blackjack. Tasha even played & chatted with another user, so that's socialization. There's just so much that needs to be improved for this RP "casino" for to be acceptable for SL.

Or - How about just redo the old dark fairgrounds with updated rides, games & prizes instead?

I wouldn't be leaving solely for the casino. There's a number of topics I could bring up that have been going on for years without even getting into the most recent issues.

I'm still stubbornly holding on to the hope that they will start resolving some of the issues. This situation is greatly reducing my resolve though.

May 17, 2023

15 hours ago, Innula Zenovka said:

Since social casinos are a popular form of online entertainment, might it not just be that LL's marketing team think that offering a version of a social casino in SL could be a good way of attracting new residents, who may find they prefer the experience of playing these games inworld to on a web page, and who may even, now they've set foot in SL, decide to explore a bit more and start spending more time and money in-world?

That seems to me the simplest explanation, and would explain why the region was launched on Facebook and Twitter.

If this was the core intent, they could have made the entire thing free. A fun, yet free version of a casino would draw in far more interest than one in which you have to pay for. There would ultimately be no profit loss, as new residents will always mean more potential income for them.

9 hours ago, AzureWaves said:

LL could merely be doing data-gathering on SL residents to sell to/or on behalf of a social casino company. They're keeping mum on the whole thing, with no official blog post.

There is a good potential they are doing this. GamGard and GamTalk are owned by the same individual. GamGard does research on social casino games and such. GamTalk is an extremely unknown gambling addiction support website, but for some reason LL decided to use them as one of two mentions for gambling addiction help.

May 17, 2023

10 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Cheapskate!

I believe you, I am just surprised.

I'd offer more, but my wallet is still recovering from Fantasy Faire. I'm looking forward to taking my new bus for a ride soon!

May 17, 2023

10 hours ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

If it turns out you're right on this and we wind up seeing a second or third one of these things pop up and/or a shift in focus to promoting this kind of thing, that'd be me out instantly. I'm absolutely not the target audience for that. I recently dropped one of my favorite games for adopting an extremely predatory premium shop (insane prices, FOMO, you name it they did it) against the community's wishes, and I'm not opposed to doing that again.

Myself and a few friends are talking about leaving SL over this and a few other recent decisions. I wouldn't be making such a large issue of this and gotten myself banned for seven days though if I didn't care about Second Life though. I'm sincerely hoping LL acknowledges this was a horrible idea and refocuses themselves. It'd be a shame to have to leave SL.. But SL only exists because of the residents and if LL doesn't care about the residents anymore, then there's no reason for us to be here.

7 hours ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

From out of left field comes the weirdo with the strange ideas.

What if (lol) this is nothing more than a test for something LL is selling to/developing for Sansar. Or even a separate grid/continent for such things. 🤔

I did say left field, weird and strange.

It's not that strange of an idea. Second Life is a stable profit margin for LL, but Tillia is where the real money is going to be at for them. There's a very, very good chance that they're trying to use this to show they can handle processing payments for "gambling simulation" platforms.

1 hour ago, Rowan Amore said:

Honestly, I'm finding it rather odd, if not somewhat telling, that not one single peep have we heard from any Mole or Linden in either of these threads relating to this topic. Not a slap or a warning or even a gentle poke. It's been a week now and nothing...anywhere...at all. 🤔

I tried to get them to chime in. The only response I got was to be banned for 7 days for "harassment" as apparently being "annoying" is considered harassment now. It's humorous, as they explicitly stated in their reply to my request for further details that there "were more appropriate means of engagement, such as the forums" while also stating my tagging the Lindens and Moles involved on the forums was part of the reason for the ban. 🤷‍♀️

May 17, 2023

10 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Don't you suppose this is against some TOS? At the very least, if the "buyer" complained, there is nothing LL could (or would) do about it.

Find somewhere in the TOS that it even mentions Linden Homes and I'll pay you 5000L$.

I'm one of the strange people who've actually read the TOS in it's entirety. A few times actually. As well as the community guidelines and community standards. I'm sure if people actually started doing this LL would change the policies to ban it, but currently there's nothing preventing someone from doing it. The TOS actually protects the buyer in this situation if they were to rip off the seller, which is why I'd suggest doing half up front.

So, there is a potential profit driver for Linden Homes and the current setup for acquiring a Linden Home could be seen as gambling. It's definitely a stretch and I doubt any courts would humor the case, but it's a legit argument.

May 16, 2023

11 hours ago, Persephone Emerald said:

No one pays to get a Linden Home, nor are they able to resell what they get. Being able to select a Linden Home is a perk of Premium membership. If one chooses to do so, they can keep trying for a new location 5 times each day, so there is no loss in not getting the precise location one wanted to get.

You do pay though. You pay via your monthly subscription fee.

Also, there is the potential to "sell" your Linden Home now. Premium Plus members can actually request which parcel they want directly. So if there was an already owned parcel you really wanted, you could message the owner, offer them a payment to abandon the parcel, and then immediately call up concierges and request it for yourself.

May 13, 2023

5 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

This, and modify the payment structure for chips that is currently designed to encourage really large investments of Lindens to get "good value" for your chip purchases. Or, better still, either limit the amount you can spend per day, or make it entirely free.

The daily limit would be extremely valuable. Currently the high bet slots with max bet is 30k tokens.. And you can buy 30k tokens for 10000L$ or ~$45. They are legit allowing a person to spend $45 for the ability to play one game.

May 13, 2023

7 hours ago, diamond Marchant said:

It is possible that Helios Casino is simply a demonstration of what Linden Lab could offer to casino operators in US states where online casino gambling appears to be legal. The fact that online gambling is legal anywhere in the US is news to me. I discovered this in a NY Post article dated January 9, 2023.

As others have said, Helios Casino, perhaps, does not meet the definition of gambling that most use, as one cannot win anything.

I speculate that Linden Lab might have some legal exposure for false or deceptive advertising, if one considers a Destination Guide entry or a tweet to be advertising. Also, "casino" is defined as "a public room or building where gambling games are played".

Hey @Patch Linden, we think somebody has some 'splaining to do.

It's possible they are planning to roll out actual online casinos, but doubtful. It'd be extremely difficult for them to ensure access is restricted to only the state it's created for. It would be interesting though if they were able to pull it off and offer actual gambling that allowed for payouts.

The issue most of us have with Helios Casino is not that it's gambling, but that it's fake gambling without any reward while still taking peoples money. If it was 100% free to play, it'd be fine. If it had an actual payout, it'd be fine. If they simply took additional steps to inform people you can not payout and to offer resources for gambling addiction, it'd be fine.

Seriously, I'd be happy if they just changed the auto-hud greeting you see when you TP in to start with a gambling addiction awareness and helpline page that you had to acknowledge before you can play. It would also greatly reduce LL's liability in case someone does try to sue them over the casino. I'm amazed their lawyers allowed them to get away with the tiny little sign that they have for gambling addiction.

Also, be careful tagging Lindens. Apparently that in combination with other attempts to talk with Linden employees is considered annoying and a form of harassment, which can result in being banned.

May 13, 2023

14 hours ago, Ardy Lay said:

I think it's a behavioral research experiment, so, all I am going to do there is search for the restroom and attempt to sit on the statuary.

You actually are probably right!

GamTalk, one of two of the only mentions regarding help for gambling addiction is owned and managed by the same person who owns and runs GamGard, a gambling research center.

We were extremely curious why Lindens mentioned GamTalk, as there's so many other more significant gambling addiction services and came across the connection but weren't able to until today.

Quote

In 2007, he introduced Gamgard, his first significant contribution to responsible gambling innovation.

Gamgard is a responsible game design tool that assesses whether a game will be risky to vulnerable players.

Once a game reveals itself as a potential problem, Gamgard advises on ways to tweak play and reduce the risk before it becomes real one. The tool is used by close to 60 gambling companies in 27 countries.

Next, in 2008, Dr. Wood launched GamTalk, a free online support service for gambling-related issues.

Linden Lab Research is not only selling us out as lab rats.. But profiting off us and gambling addicts in the process.

May 12, 2023

2 hours ago, Kimmi Zehetbauer said:

Earlier in the thread or the other one I bought this up with a patron at my bar who's an employee of the provincial gaming board SLGA aka Saskatchewan Liquor and Gaming Authority and he came back and said the casino is OK as it doesn't pay out but they would have an issue with the RNG (Random Number Generator) in the machines still as they don't allow loot boxes in MMOs played within the province. He said they will reach out to the Lab. I have a feeling they'll get the ok.

The amount of money they'll end up spending on labor to be approved by all the different gambling regulation groups around the world will never match the amount they earn from this scam.

May 11, 2023

5 hours ago, belindacarson said:

Could you make those signs into a wearable avatar?

Just wondering, then if someone visits the casino, it's freedom of choice and not protesting.

3 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Or a T-Shirt!

I'm planning on making some t-shirts and such as well, as soon as my account is accessible again. My graphic skills aren't exactly skilled and I've purposely kept away from that side of things in SL to not find myself going down the rabbit hole. Guess it's time to learn though!

May 11, 2023

37 minutes ago, Gwin LeShelle said:

So I don't know am I the only one that finds it a little unsettling that Anubis, god of the underworld and graves and stuff is SocialCasino Linden's Outfit of choice? XD it's surely nice and well made but also ...an interesting choice 😆

*Didn't wanted to derail the Mole thread 💜

Nope! I made a post on Twitter about that. God of funerary rituals and guide to the underworld is our Casino host. Seems fitting for how this Casino is going.

May 11, 2023

So, I might be banned from in world, but my gambling addiction hotline awareness signs are still available.

Just don't talk to the cops, err Lindens, and don't directly give anything out without being requested for it.

But you can totally chill in the casino and promote healthy gambling practices!

May 10, 2023

4 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Idea: For extra tokens, make users watch videos about the benefits of Premium membership, Land ownership, etc. Like a timeshare does, when you go to get the prize they mailed you about.

Regular users only get 120 tokens each day. Premium users get 250! Premium Plus get 500! Sign up today and get your free tokens!

I can 100% see Linden Labs doing this.

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