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Ezbeharra

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Posts posted by Ezbeharra

    Why don't clothing makers develop a priority system for attachments?

    in Fashion

    Posted · Edited by Ezbeharra
    removed some snark

    I think clothing makers have every incentive not to do this, and instead make their clothing all rigged to fit together, and then it's very easy to get dressed provided you're only buying mega-packs from Bumbleberry or whatever.

    Anyway, you're absolutely right that it should be better than this and in layer clothes days, it actually was, but there's probably no solution that anyone will actually take the time to implement. For modesty, I find c-strings or panties that let you turn off the waistband to be sufficient (there are some good cheap ones on MP and available as group gifts at a few places). The much more vexing problem is outerwear. Imagine having a jacket you don't have to wear with one specific shirt!

    • Like 2

    Dynamic Bones for Clothing.

    in General Discussion Forum

    Posted

    2 hours ago, Lindal Kidd said:

    I gather the OP is trying to restore something like we used to have with flexi skirts and hair. It's an understandable suggestion, but bones are probably not the way to do it. What we need is some sort of system of real time cloth physics with gravity, wind, and collisions. Sadly, I don't think we're likely to get it.

    Honestly that sounds like it would rule. I hadn't even thought of it before, and now I'm sad we don't have it.

    Banning bots from the grid?

    in General Discussion Forum

    Posted

    2 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

    Do they actually do this?  I doubt it.  Do they check to see if all those avatars on the sky platform are registered as scripted agents?   There are several.places.that have for years been at the top of search.  I pop in now and then to check.  Still no actual people there but that platform is still full.

    Exactly! I'm aware of plenty of such places, too. And all they would have to do, though, if anyone said anything, is throw some sex beds and tip jars up on that platform and say it's an AFK brothel. I genuinely don't think enforcement is possible, but I would love to be proven wrong because that would mean such a huge improvement.

    Banning bots from the grid?

    in General Discussion Forum

    Posted · Edited by Ezbeharra

    5 minutes ago, xDancingStarx said:

    Right, wow bots are paid accounts, and they exist because they can make enough money before Blizzard bans them.

     

    Maybe that would even make sense, but this goes back to the problem that Linden would need to be able to determine who is a bot and who is not, which would be a tremendous effort. And even if they were able to spend all that money on this issue, there would still be the problem that an SL account is free and once they ban bot 9473, bot 9474 would be instantly created. Or would have been created a month ago in advance.

    Exactly, 100% this.

    Full disclosure of my extremely bad gaming choices, I did pay Eve Online for a while and it was truly astonishing just how resourceful botters were there, how much money they made from it all, and how hard it was for CCP (then the owner of the game) to even take out some of them. What we're seeing in SL is only the barest sliver of what botters are very easily capable of, if they want to evade detection.

    LL can't even find traffic bots, which are already technically not allowed. I see them all the time. I could name and shame certain locations but I won't. This time. But suppose LL aggressively went after traffic bots. How hard would it be to put them on sex furniture and say they were AFK sex workers? Now what?

    • Like 1

    Banning bots from the grid?

    in General Discussion Forum

    Posted

    2 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

    WoW bots are a little different, they typically perform tasks .. say collecting special rocks or plants. These materials are used in crafting and blizzard to balance the markets and recipes on the assumption that there will be automated farming.

    It's also important to note that wow bots are buying the game and playing the monthly sub.

    Bots that participate in other actives or are socially disruptive are banned, and big ban waves are common.

     

    At the very least bot accounts in SL should be required to purchase a premium plus level of subscription and agree to terms and conditions for bot usage.

    Things like forbidding bottling from VPN connections would also help keep those doing things with them honest.

    All of these things require the ability to detect bots, which is extremely hard to do. MMO companies hate bots, even if they pay subscriptions, and they still have a hard time removing them, even when they have total control of the game client itself (not like SL where you can use Firestorm or some text viewer or anything at all). They cause a lot of income loss in other ways through supporting RMT (real money transactions) for in-world items that make the game less appealing to regular players. So they actively go after botters and it's very hard for them to find them all. LL would face the same thing, under worse circumstances. You cannot identify a bot that does not want to be identified unless you are willing to put a lot of effort into it, which, ehhh, we're talking about LL here.

    Banning bots from the grid?

    in General Discussion Forum

    Posted

    Just now, xDancingStarx said:

    I share the same concerns regarding bots and I would be all in for banning them if I thought that it would be technically possible in a *reasonable* way.

    But when we look at games like World of Warcraft, there are "stop the bots" threads popping up even after so many years and so much money spent by Blizzard on this issue. WoW shows that there is no way to ban bots once and for all, or to stop threads like these.

    https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/stop-the-bots/233054

    This is my position as well, and while I understand Paul's objection that it's off topic for the thread, I think it makes more sense to ban the bot behavior that we don't want to see, rather than banning bots entirely. I also want to be clear I'm not talking about any actual service or website or anything out there that exists, but hypothetical cases of data gathering that seem technically very feasible and concerning from a privacy and safety standpoint.

    I've looked through the ToS and I will be the first to tell you I am terrible at reading legal documents and understanding them, but from what I can see there's nothing banning data export aside from cases where intellectual property and DMCA concerns crop up. If I am wrong, I will be very glad (sincerely) for someone to point out where it says in the ToS that you may not, for example, compile lists of all the avatars present in a region and put that in a searchable database on an external website.

    But as for bot bans, I absolutely agree with you here, and I very briefly played MMOs (not much of a gamer, really) where botting was such a huge problem that companies had significant resources dedicated to the problem and the botters always seemed to be a step ahead.

    • Like 1

    Banning bots from the grid?

    in General Discussion Forum

    Posted

    1 minute ago, Rednight Hand said:

    And who's to say if the BB's are the only ones doing it, there's tons of bots out there, tons of listening scripts out there that can do more and yet no one complains about them or whatever places they're holding whatever data. I agreed to enjoy myself on SL without a care what comes with it, if people know whatever info from me then ask. if I decide to say it that's my own fault for exposing it.

    This is basically an argument against having any sort of rules about anything, anywhere, so uh good luck with that.

    • Like 2
    • Thanks 2
    • Haha 1

    Banning bots from the grid?

    in General Discussion Forum

    Posted · Edited by Ezbeharra

    3 minutes ago, Rednight Hand said:

    Na, Neither man nor woman, I am just me. Do I care if they got data where I'm going who whom I'm hanging with? Nope Agreed to this the day I joined and agreed to the TOS. otherwise why would I be still be on SL all these years.

    You agreed to Linden Lab having that data. You did not agree to your stalker who is using alts to harass you having that data. At least, I did not agree to it. And yes, this sort of thing happens in SL.

    • Like 3

    Banning bots from the grid?

    in General Discussion Forum

    Posted

    2 minutes ago, Dorientje Woller said:

    There is a solution, one that some may find irritating, but I see sim/landowners use it. The moment you as user land, you get a pop up to answer within a period of time. If you fail, bang, you're ejected.

    Great I'm gonna have to identify traffic lights everywhere I go now

    Banning bots from the grid?

    in General Discussion Forum

    Posted

    1 minute ago, Rednight Hand said:

    How am I exaggerating? that's all the posts that have been rounding to just complaining about bots then going to jobs being taken  over by bots in SL.  I've been around long enough to see tons of crap in SL and in the forums that its not even worth my time to complain other than just enjoy myself. Yeah I've seen the BBs here and there when visiting places, hanging with friends or whatever. Do I care, no. Do I care what they see me on with or with whom,  No. I'm enough of an adult to know I agreed to whatever SL experience I get since the day I joined it and to this day I'll continue enjoying being an adult on there without a care who's spying or whatever.

    Do you care if they provide updated in-world location data for your avatar to anyone who looks at their website? Oh wait, you're probably a man so you probably don't know why that might be a problem for some people.

    • Like 5

    Banning bots from the grid?

    in General Discussion Forum

    Posted · Edited by Ezbeharra
    expand

    Well I keep saying it so I guess I'll stop after this but it really doesn't matter whether bots are good or bad or a bit of both, there is no way for LL to be able to detect them easily so banning them from the grid or imposing special rules on them isn't going to happen.

    • Haha 1

    Banning bots from the grid?

    in General Discussion Forum

    Posted

    2 minutes ago, EliseAnne85 said:

    I think they should have bots that look different like droids that is recognizable to all as a droid bot, but cannot look like an avatar.

    You're describing a fair number of avatars that have human players.

    Anyway it doesn't matter. Restrictions on bots require ways to easily distinguish bots from human players (lol good luck!), otherwise you're just restricting the bots whose owners willingly identify them, who probably aren't doing anything annoying or bad anyway.

    • Like 1

    Banning bots from the grid?

    in General Discussion Forum

    Posted

    1 minute ago, Paul Hexem said:

    This particular discussion is less about what they do and more about the idea that they should be banned.

    Someone that usually posts intelligent things thinks they should be banned, and I can't decide if they've gone insane or not. 

    Well you don't have to worry because if you look at any MMO that has active bot policing (probably most of them), it's way more effort than LL is likely to ever put into anything. And that's not even counting the use of third party clients in SL, which throws quite a wrench into the works.

    • Like 1
    • Confused 1

    Banning bots from the grid?

    in General Discussion Forum

    Posted

    Bot banning is a major undertaking, it's not just a matter of posting a NO BOTS sign. Look at any MMO that has had to deal with resource farming bots, which actually do cause harm to their in-game economies and are frequently involved in banned real-world currency transactions. Such cases require that resources be put into bot detection (resources that could otherwise go into features, fixes, and improvements) and are never completely successful.

    Personally, I would prefer to see something in the TOS addressing data export and aggregation, or at least some clarification that would make it clear harvesting data (whether by bots or humans) and placing it in an external location is not permissible.

    • Like 3

    Slink is closing.

    in General Discussion Forum

    Posted

    I wouldn't write Belleza off just yet. Blueberry seems pretty steadfast in providing sizes for both Gen X bodies in new releases and sale items as far as I can tell and I'm seeing other creators rigging for them, too. A body becomes more attractive if you already have things for it, so I could see a comeback in the future, and apparently the latest update ticked a few of boxes (mod, PG option). Definitely not a very good launch, though, there's no denying that, but I'm keeping an eye on it in case I finally get too annoyed with my Legacy's issues and glitches.

    If any body maker is on deathwatch I'd say it's Prima (nee Tonic). As a Tonic owner I had the option of getting it cheap, and... I just didn't, even though I definitely wanted to replace my Tonic body. Jumped ship to Legacy in the Halloween sale and let the Prima deal expire. It's a shame, too, it is a nice body, but there's almost nothing for it. I did see that Arti's rigged a recent release for it, so maybe it will pick up but I seriously doubt it.

    • Like 2

    Sorry. This is not OK. B bots profile scraping.

    in General Discussion Forum

    Posted

    1 minute ago, Orwar said:

       Ah, I see. I should imagine I'm being stalked. We're all being stalked. I mean, the information isn't in the data they've published or anything, but I should imagine it could be. 

       How about we focus on worrying about reality rather than imagined possibly-maybes. I mean the president could be a lizard from Mars puppeteered by a secret global shadow government - I have no physical proof of the contrary, after all! 

    Do you seriously believe that stalking does not happen in Second Life?

    • Like 3

    Sorry. This is not OK. B bots profile scraping.

    in General Discussion Forum

    Posted

    10 minutes ago, Orwar said:

       Here, have mine: secondlife:///app/agent/14a1a1eb-ab84-48ca-aacd-3048bb27c8d7/about - oh noes, all that information I published about myself online, visible to strangers who may disagree with my life choices or preferences. How scary! 

    Now imagine there's a website that keeps track of the recent regions that URI was spotted in by some bot. Imagine you have a stalker.

    • Like 1

    Sorry. This is not OK. B bots profile scraping.

    in General Discussion Forum

    Posted

    Okay, I am asking sincerely here because I think it is relevant:

    1. Can someone explain what rationale this site could possibly have for collecting profile data and making it searchable, when its purpose, according to the New World Notes article, is to track region activity in order to determine which high traffic regions are filled with actual users at their keyboards?
    2. Has anyone noticed that it doesn't even really do that very well, and certainly doesn't use user identification in its tracking? It just gets the raw number of users in a region and compares it to the previous visit. For example, I was in a region with heavy traffic, lots of coming and going, for several hours, but it's very low ranked on their list because the overall number hadn't changed much. So clearly they aren't actually identifying individual users as part of this, to track whether the same people are just sitting in a region for a long time. You don't even need a traveling bot do to that, the information is available anywhere.
    • Like 2
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