Mila Edelman

Rhonda Huntress wrote: Mila Edelman wrote: My main point is that, if an item is copy/mod AND has a resizer, it shouldn't be skipped. On this I agree. I am not against the scripts, I am against no mod parts.

Geh! These are reminding me of these iron-on patterns I remember floating around the house when I was a kid. Ironed 'em on shirts, painted them with tri-chem (which, at the time, was still in its VERY toxic form). Often a cross between Holly Hobbie and the big-eyed children. The big eyes were utterly creepy. *shudder* 'Scuse me, while I find a therapist.

Rhonda Huntress wrote: Mila Edelman wrote: I don't think one should avoid all that has "resizer" in the description. Just because it has "resizer," does not necessarily mean it's bad, and you can be losing out on a lot of cool stuff by ignoring anything with a resizer. Certain copy-only items with resizers can even be fine. It depends on where they're worn. There are two big problems from resizer clothes. First is the problem that the vast majority of resizers have at least one script in every prim. This means a single, simple skirt brings along 25 or more scripts by itself. Second is the inability to do anything other than scale in place. If all it needs is a little tweak, this is fine. If you have a life-sized avatar and need to reduce a long skirt to fit your shape you can forget about doing it with a resizer script. With a modifiable skirt, it is easy to go prim by prim on the skirt panels and with "stretch both sides" turned OFF, slide them up to a reasonable size all without the need to reposition a single piece. I do not buy no mod skirts. Ever. No matter how much I like it or the person that made it. I have thrown away too many in the past that simply can not be made to fit with scripts alone. I am aware of how resizers work. And I am aware of their limitations. Personally, my new resizer, which does the same thing as the old, is one script only, not one script per prim. The old one, save in a few cases (which will change, as soon as I get to those items), still was deletable, and I left a notecard in the package, instructing users on how to delete it. For its day, it was very good, and very useful to most. My main point is that, if an item is copy/mod AND has a resizer, it shouldn't be skipped. For a lot of people (the vast majority), it's useful, and that's why designers like myself include it. The resizer can be removed (whether by the script itself, by hand, or with Phoenix's handy dandy "remove all scripts" tool). Simply because it isn't useful to you (you're welcome to remove it), doesn't mean we shouldn't consider the rest of our customers. Copy-only jewelry, however, is different. Most jewelry doesn't need to be mod, in my experience and opinion. And if it was, all users would do is resize with standard "bigger or smaller" resizing anyway. Very few users want to zero in on their avatar and spend days moving 200 prims just to fit their avatar perfectly.

Evangeline Twist wrote: Where I am from it's often called " that chick needs to eat a sammich!" lol HAHA! I heart you. It's often what I tell visitors who want advice on wearing vintage clothing. Anything pre-Twiggy, you need to have a healthy body that indicates you eat something. I'm thankful every day that, in real life, I got a "womanly figure" of the 30's. It means I can wear the vintage clothing I love, and fit it properly. Even when I've had long-term RL illnesses, and have lost a lot of weight, I still have "birthing hips." I think it's healthy. I see a lot of boyish or otherwise SUPER thin avatars, and the ones that ask me what they can do to their shape to more realistically wear the clothing, I tell them, "eat a sammich!" I think it's just trending. We see Amazonian women in some communities, boyish women in others. Jo and I have always encouraged more realistic shapes in 1920's Berlin. I see a MUCH higher percentage of residents and users willing to actually have a rear, and hips, and a realistic chest, in our community. I'm thankful for that. Some people start off with us in the Twiggy shapes, but after spending just a few days there, they feel comfortable adding some "padding." They see that many people are walking around wearing more human shapes, and don't feel self-conscious about it anymore.

If the items spawned in the inventory, that'd be cool. I could write a script to do that easily. But the items that people attach to themselves often have higher prim counts than a user would get with most low-level land rentals (which I realize is a problem in and of itself). So if they rezzed on the ground right now, it could be problematic. As the creator, though, I can create a script to generate all of the versions a user would want, and include THOSE in the final boxes. Since I'm a programmer, though, I tend to just write those things myself. I don't know if that exists on the market anywhere. I did combat this through one product of mine. You get 9 ribbon colors on the hat's brim. Instead of a color-changer, I just gave them 9 hat/hair sets. Phoenix viewer does have a "remove all scripts" option, which I liked. It was faster than the removal system included in my older resizer (the old one uses a script per prim, while the new one is a single script). I don't know if the standard Viewer 2.0 does. Don't even have it on this machine as of right now.

I don't think one should avoid all that has "resizer" in the description. Just because it has "resizer," does not necessarily mean it's bad, and you can be losing out on a lot of cool stuff by ignoring anything with a resizer. Certain copy-only items with resizers can even be fine. It depends on where they're worn. If it has a resizer AND prims are copy/mod, THEN you should be completely okay. A lot of designers, myself included, moved (or are moving) to a resizer PLUS copy/mod perms on the prims. So, for those that want to just use the script, it's there. And for those who want to edit the prims, they can. Best of both worlds, in my opinion. The majority of my customers do prefer and use the script because, for average avatars (which most newer folks use), it works. But some prefer the copy/mod perms, and modding the prims.

One problem with that will always be prim parts. My "me" avatar (as opposed to my "old time prims model" avatar) is more naturally shaped (not plus-sized, but I actually have a butt), and I find I have to adjust almost everything. It's not a shame on the designers by any means. Just that "clothing" items "glue" to your shape and move with it, and prim parts, as of now, stay their own size until you change them. Meshes should change that, but not an option yet. I do want to note that, while you can check the listed inventory when you're buying something from a standard box sale, be aware that, just because an object says "No modify," doesn't mean the object (the prim part) is actually no-mod. A script in the object might be no-mod, while the rest is copy/mod. So it'll say "no-mod" in the inventory, but you can modify it. I do put some trust in what the advertisement actually says (copy/mod is good). I know, some folks will grouse about shopkeepers not being totally honest about the perms in their adverts, but I've yet to run into that problem, and I've been here since 2006. Read what the adverts say (either in the marketplace, or in-world), and ask the owner if you're really uncertain. The problem with "resize scripts" will usually be that they just make everything bigger by one formula (x, y and z coordinates ALL get bigger, when maybe you only needed X to do so), which is a problem for larger avatars. Have you learned to use the standard SL edit tools yet? In these cases, I usually recommend using the "edit single prim" options, to sort of pull it out how I need.

Well, you're welcome. As much as I do love teaching people, it can be extremely time-consuming. I need sleep, and to create new stuff (btw, my new graphics-beast gaming and 3-D work computer will be done between tomorrow and next Thursday, so I can get back to creating--the Alienware is officially retiring from full service!). Hehe, I still remember when resize scripts were basically never heard of. You were kind of on your own for editing your copy/mod stuff. I can recall asking a friend how to edit stuff, and searching online for tutorials, but I cannot ever recall asking the shopowner to teach me to edit. I think that must be relatively new. Nobody I knew back in the day ever did it. It's not that I mind being asked, per se, just, I think newer users are tending towards not learning to do stuff on their own. Could be a sign of the newer generation coming in. Maybe the new viewer gives more of an impression of "ease" and less of "do it yourself," so folks are less inclined to seek answers on their own. Not sure, but would be curious to know.

Perrie Juran wrote: Mila Edelman wrote: I have taught some n00bs how to edit manually. Sometimes, they listen well. Other times, well, they don't. People get panicky when doing something new in the tech world for some reason I don't understand. So if something isn't 50-feet high and flashing, they don't see it and start clicking the wrong stuff or crying that they don't get it, then start blaming me for making a product that didn't fit their avatar exactly. Ah, life. If there is any one time that I find voice useful it is when teaching people basic editing. I also keep a collection of screen shots of the edit windows with the appropriate info marked. First thing I do when teaching is have them create a basic cube and show them the functions on that. That helps alleviate the fear of messing up their purchase. Or I'll give them a cruddy full perm freebie to experiment on first. Unfortunately, when it's a tech-panicky person, they sometimes freak out over even getting voice to work properly, if they have a mic at all. I've dealt with all levels in this. Some are just more trying on the patience than others. Sadly, as well, with tech-panicky people, screenshots don't always help much. They get so scared that they don't listen to half of what you say, point to or otherwise indicate.

The problem you mentioned, with the prims not moving in the correct direction to fit your shape, that's actually the final reason I made the decision to move to a Copy/Mod model. For a majority of people, the simple bigger/smaller thing works. BUT, even for me, with stuff I've bought from others, it doesn't always. In most cases, while I've been selling as Copy+Resize, I have given a mod version to those that ask. I have taught some n00bs how to edit manually. Sometimes, they listen well. Other times, well, they don't. People get panicky when doing something new in the tech world for some reason I don't understand. So if something isn't 50-feet high and flashing, they don't see it and start clicking the wrong stuff or crying that they don't get it, then start blaming me for making a product that didn't fit their avatar exactly. Ah, life.

As a content creator, it's been a sort of "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. Back when the "script in every prim" was the norm, I was doing that. My script was good (bought it from a private scripter who also does a friend's work), but it is too much to use now. My major problem back then was that people would TRY to edit mod items without making a copy, and they'd break them. I spent WAY more time supporting this, and had a LOT less time for design. It's not that I don't want to help my customers (if I receive your message, you WILL get a response from me--just understand sometimes SL fails to deliver messages...try again if you don't hear back). It's that I was losing out on time making new things for folks to enjoy. I'm now migrating back to copy/mod WITH single-script deletable (with the script, not just select->Delete) resizer. But that takes time. Most items I offer have at least 5 variations (typically between 8-10). I actually prefer copy/mod myself BUT I am also tech-savvy (it's been my livelihood for 14 years now). It's not me saying "Oh, I'm awesome and everyone else is stupid," it's just that, if I notice a large majority of customers having trouble and getting upset because they're only allowed to manually edit, I want to do something about it. Not everyone has my professional background, so I like to take that into consideration.

Thank you both! It worked. The tool I'm writing will likely save me over four hours in the product launch process.

I'm a programmer in Life #1, so LSL is just another language to me. However, I am apparently not using the correct phrasing to look for the particular function to accomplish what I want. I figure SOMEONE here has to know. Say I have a root prim. It's got Photo-A and Photo-B as inventory items, plus a script. What I need the script to do is put copies of Photo-A and Photo-B into each child prim's inventory. I have several business-related scripts that do this, but they're all no-mod, so I can't pick them apart to find the snippet/function I want, and utilize it the way I'd like. These particular final scripts don't do anything related to what I'm currently writing for myself (as many of you know, I often write tools to automate things I don't feel like doing), else I'd just use them. I just need to know what that particular function (or set of functions) is. Can someone point me in the correct direction? On LSLWiki.net, or?

Heheh, had to share. Just got verbally abused by the same customer I was talking about last week. I was very polite to her (though she seems to take EVERY instance of politeness as some weird attack). I did remove her from the list last week, as she asked. But server glitch or whatever, her name didn't come off. So when I blasted out today, she signed on to scream at me about all of this. I explained, I did remove her, but server stuff happens, no big deal. I removed her again. She screamed about how she NEVER bought anything from me. I told her the date of what she purchased, as well as the object. She glossed over the fact that she did, in fact, have prior business with me, and went on ranting. According to her, she's made it her JOB to abuse "spammers." Except she glossed over the fact that we had prior business. Then she told me I was crying because she was being mean to me (heh, really?). And she just continued the verbal abuse. Goodness, people. Not everyone is out to get you. Crackpot.

I think some merchants take it REALLY personally if you complain about a seam. For me, it's usually, one designer to another, if I spot a very obvious seam problem, I want the designer's products to look even better, so I say something! But the designer spent hours and hours and hours on it and, sadly, the other side of that coin is that some designers get really offended if you mention it. THAT may be why a lot of customers are afraid to say something. I try to be as delicate as possible about it, but there's no approaching some people. But seriously, to all of my customers, please say something! I spend days and days on a single release, it's true. I stare at colors, seams and wrinkles for days on end, trying to be perfect. But I'm not. It's possible to miss things! For the first several years of my business, my good friend and I shared a workshop. We have entirely different businesses, but we're good friends. Sometimes we'd be working at the same time, sometimes not. We'd try on each other's stuff, offer advice or criticisms, where appropriate. I appreciate that from all of my customers, when it's necessary.

You know, you made me think on something that should be very important to merchants but, sadly, isn't, to many. I'm sure those of us who care enough to post thoughtfully here actually DO care about this sort of stuff, but I've run into many across the grid who just don't. Complaints! Sometimes, as you've all heard me rant, a customer is complaining, because that is what they do. They start out hostile, and refuse to believe that it's no one's fault, or, worse, when it really is their own fault (I try to lay that blow as gently as possible, and help with resolutions anyway). But seriously, if a customer comes to me and tells me that something they bought has a seam that's off JUST a tad, or whatever, I run right into action. I'm very **bleep** about making sure seams line up, to start with, because I've seen some godawful alignments out there, but really, if a customer brings that to my attention, and it's verified (sometimes, it's also just on certain avatar shape settings, so that's good to know), I am SO grateful that they took the time to let me know. Instead of complaining to high heaven to everyone they know, without bothering to ask me if I'd fix it, they came to me. That helps me grow my products and helps me look out for certain issues in the future. I use a very standard avatar to design with (same as in programming: use a standard system, so you know what the end user will see), quite on purpose, but, unfortunately, if I were to account for every single avatar shape possible, I'd launch only one product a year. I do my best (and my customers tell me, it shows) to perfect alignments, but I LOVE it when someone takes the time to tell me something was off. Or if they are having trouble fitting something to their exact avatar.

Oooh yes, THAT is a definite challenge, and a REALLY big selling hurdle. I have to remind myself a lot, even with clients, that most people don't speak "tech." And many people do become afraid of new systems. It's the same as German-speaking, though. If a person is new to speaking it, or doesn't speak it at all, but wants to learn, I need to take it slow. Though I could be thankful that, at least, the backend of their site would be familiar to many. You wouldn't be able to tell by looking at the frontend that it is (which was the point of my extreme modifications), but most merchants who already have a site are somewhat familiar with the backend. Bigger hurdle, that I've run into in talking to others, is that the "blog" look is commonplace, even for most of the biggest merchants in SL. In my non-SL career, I've always seen that blog layouts are great for content. Not so great if you want people to explore your products on a large scale. Pretty much everything after the lastest two products (in most design cases) falls below the fold (requiring scrolling), which is a product-site design no-no. You want to give people as much as you can (in a pleasing way) without requiring them to click, search or scroll. Once they are required to DO something, follow-through drops off significantly. It's a big, big challenge to pull people away from the blog look, because it's just so common for SL businesses. Two of my very close friends, who happen to run some of the biggest businesses in their target markets, still use the blog look. ON another level, I get it. It's easy to set up and no one has to help you do that. If you don't have my career background (which shouldn't be expected...I've just got more experience in that area), I can see why it's an appealing thing. There's been a common misconception for MANY years now that EVERYONE should know how to design a website, and everyone should know how to program all sorts of stuff. A cousin of mine actually got pretty offended when I offered to help him password-protect a portion of his site. It would have taken me five minutes. But he insisted that everyone should know how to do it, and was reading through a stack of five big tech books. His business had NOTHING to do with tech at all, though. His site was JUST to promote a totally non-tech business. I asked, why spend months learning about the inner-workings of programmed server security? He didn't even ENJOY learning about it. He just thought people were expected to know this stuff. I'd get it if he had any interest in tech, at all, but he didn't. As an afternote, I hacked his "security" in less than 2 minutes, using no fancy methods at all. I think his bigger problem was ego, really. "If I didn't do it ALL MYSELF, I WILL BE SHAMED! SHAAAAMMMED!" He didn't make his own products for what his business did. I don't understand why he felt he had to do so with a website. Honestly, if I didn't have the background I do, the DIY blog look would have been all I could do, BUT, once it got too big, I probably would have hired someone to put together a more product-centric site. Just say to myself, "it's beyond my skillset, gonna bring in a professional." I did use a blog look for the first year, in fact, but then I hired myself again (ha ha) to bring it into a more product-centric layout. ...I talk a LOT about this subject, ha ha. You're making me think, though. Perhaps of setting up an alt. Though make it clear in the alt's profile that it is me, as I do want people to understand I've been around for awhile. But, an alt can more fully market a single business. I wouldn't ever try to market SL business sites AND vintage clothing via the same avatar, haha. Anyway, I yak, yak yak.

I personally have never looked for friends in SL. Not because I'm a fabulous person (believe me, I'm not),but because I don't really need to seek companionship actively. If it comes, it comes. If not, it doesn't. I don't connect with many people RL or SL, so it doesn't bother me. (Which, to my amusement, REALLY upsets people who need everyone to follow them blindly.) Note: I do NOT mean sex or any variation. Purely friends to explore with. I tend to meet people through my work, various business contacts who have become friends. Though one will confirm that we met over 15 years ago in a D&D-like setting, and just tend to gravitate to the same things. But for the most part, I meet folks through my SL work. I keep in touch with those I like. And when we're free, we go do stuff together. If you give off the vibe that you're desperate, people WILL take advantage of the desperation. I really wouldn't go to nightclubs to meet people. Just too much promise of sex I wouldn't ever be wanting or delivering. Hang in the places where people do things you like. Even some of those can be a total Noah's Ark situation, and you're the only one without someone to talk to. But if it's that bad, move on.

Well, I USED to design CMS systems and inventory management systems from absolute scratch, custom, for companies. Then some really awesome tools came out, supported and added to, worldwide. I made the decision to study the new tools' programming and customize that for clients, most of the time. In the programming world, we say, if someone's already perfected it, don't waste your time re-doing it. It'd be purely for ego. However, if nobody's done it, and you're repeating the same tasks over and over again, write a tool and find a better use of that spare time. These days, I VERY heavily customize the existing tools, to the point that you really can't tell that they're used (unlike most installations of it) unless you really know what to look for. I customized it all in a way that allows me to maintain the OTP website (view individual pages for some of the newer products, you can see the set options--it's all done the same for older products, too, just they don't have as many options) AND my product inventory, plus the posts on Marketplace. Just all in one place, so I am never redoing stuff, or flipping windows or, the database admin's nightmare, DUPLICATING DATA. The same entries that control what shows up on the site, I can pull a drop-down (built only so that I can see it) that gives me options for updating or creating Marketplace posts, gives me all the data fields I need in one spot, separated, so I can just grab them. I have often wondered if I should make some tweaks to this for the public to be able to use it on their own accounts (for a monthly fee, I guess?). Or maybe offer to host people's company websites, and offer my custom tool as an add-on. It used to take me HOURS to enter all new products from a set to the Marketplace/XStreet. I really LOATHED those days. It now takes me under an hour (more like 30 mins) for the "entering it all into MP" stage, and that's a 10-product set.

I have to chime in with complete agreement regarding the packaging and documentation. Unlike many things, there's really no extra programming to be done that could save us time in this process. I personally have a set of steps for new products starting with "make it, ya dork," to announcing to my groups and sublists, and everything in-between. It keeps me organized. AFTER the packing process, I have automated quite a lot. As I've been a professional programmer for 14 years now, I did look at my personal launch process and created webware programs to deal with a lot of it. That took some of the sting out of the launch process, to be sure. All of this helps me organize my products in a database, AND makes me not dread finishing a product, because of what comes next, hehe.

Oh, thanks! I don't know what it is about people starting off a situation poorly. SL is run through software and servers. Sometimes those fail. Worse, for me, though, have always been the ones who think that you're being snooty by being polite. Manners are how we show others respect for them. But they somehow find a way to take it as the opposite.

And to add something I despise: hostile customers. They think, from the start, that every shopkeeper is out to get them, steal from them, scam them or spam them, and they start and continue all communication with that sort of tone. I'm an excessively polite person (Emily Post and Mrs Beeton were mentioned daily in my life growing up). I just had one jump down my throat for "wanting the last word" in a conversation that wasn't an argument. I was being polite. I see customers complain on this board about shopkeepers being rude or hostile. We get customers who are rude, threatening and hostile from the get-go. No matter how polite we are, we are still pissing someone off. Apparently, she's offended by my politeness. I can't win.

Jo Yardley wrote: I became a merchant because I wanted stuff nobody was/is selling so I had to make it myself. Hehe, another coincidence in a long line of "Jo/Mila Coincidences," that was originally why I got into the business. I've ALWAYS been a crafter in First Life. If I can see it (or, in several cases, dream about it), I can sew it, knit it, crochet it, spin it or bead it. The womanly arts have been in my blood and cultivated by my grandmothers since birth. Coming to SL, I noticed a distinct lack of things available, that I actually wanted. Plus, I think it was just in me to imagine beyond that which was currently on offer. I want to wear MY vintage underwear in SL. Except nobody's making it. Okay, I'll make it. I want to wear MY dresses in SL. Again, nobody's making them. So I'll do it (a fair number of items in my store are inspired by my own wardrobe). I LOVE the "I love your stuff!" compliment. Also, I adore it when someone comes running into my shop, and tells me that they just saw my new product on the Marketplace, and that their grandmother or grandfather had the same thing, and they're so excited someone finally made it. I admit, I don't love it when someone claims to know everything about an era based on seeing one film. I don't. Those are, unfortunately, more common. It's okay not to know a lot about an era. You don't have to. But being willing to learn is a good thing. I really enjoy the customers who either: a) maybe don't know a lot, but are open to learning about, perhaps, the culture that existed around a certain type of fashion, or b) do know a lot, and are open to a good chat about vintage fashion or history.

Laetizia Coronet wrote: In Photoshop, I use the Liquify mode. I set up a block of stripes halfway over the torso template on the left (or right - but so that half the torso is covered), then gently push those lines falling outside of the template inwards until they are all, or almost all, inside. I take care not to foul up the stripes which lie over the middle of the template. Copy, flip horizontally, match, make one layer. It takes a bit of time to get it really good both front and back (and yes, then there's pants and sleeves) but then you keep the whole thing as a template for further use. btw, loved your shop, I dropped in not too long ago. Going to try this, I think. I don't mind doing a lot of work once, for a good template I can use over. Just, right now, I feel like I'm banging my head against a wall for no good reason. I've also started looking into some slightly more expensive solutions. All posters are correct in that horizontal stripes are very easy. I don't think twice about 'em. And, thank you for the compliment on my shop.

I enjoy texturing. I really do. It's pretty much what I do for a living now. HOWEVER... Vertical stripes, ladies and gentlemen, I despise. Call it loathing if you wish. If someone has already done an avatar clothing template with vertical stripes, there's no need for me to suffer this much. In my first career of 14 years (now work in SL), I was a programmer. And one of the things good programmers learn early on is that, if we find someone's already done a tool that meets our exact specifications, it's a waste of time and money to reinvent the wheel. Naturally, many situations will arise wherein we never find something that perfect, and it's better to write it ourselves. But if perfection exists, don't redo it. It's a silly, ego-driven waste of time. Is there a full-perm template in all of SL universe (whether on the marketplace, buyable in-world, or offered on someone's website) that does STRAIGHT vertical stripes in a beautiful way? It has nothing to do with matching up the torso layer and the pant layer. I can do that in my sleep. It has everything to do with each stripe being angled perfectly going outward so that they continue to be vertical (or mostly so) as they reach the sides of the body, both on torso and pant layers. Naturally, with this much hard work, I want the torso and pant layers to match up. But the main goal is definitely proper, non-mangled vertical stripes. Thinner ones. 3-5 pixels in width, at the most (I realize the actual width in Photoshop will change depending on the location of the stripe, but you know what I mean). More like pinstripes (not what I'm planning to do with it right now, but it's a basis I can work with). Anyone know of anything?