Skinned mesh export in 3ds max

[PixelPerfection]

Hi I am using SVAL to create my avatar with skeleton.  When i bring it into to secondlife the 3 different pieces (head, upper and lower) parts have unmatching shading/lighting or something in certain lights.  With other windlight settings it looks fine.  Im using max 2014 with the recommended fbx plugin and correct license version of the slav.  Any help would be so greatly appreciated.  Its driving me crazy.

[arton Rotaru]

Select all objects, apply an Edit Normals Modifier to all of them at once, select the vertex normals along the seams, and unify them.

Edit Normals Modifier

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

That should work, but it's not the way I'd smooth out the SL avatar. There are a couple of reasons for that.

First of all, SLAV doesn't split vertex normals just between head, upper body and lower body, it also splits between UV seams (and a couple of random places all across the model). You could use the same technique for those areas, but it takes a really long time to do so, not to mention it's a royal pain to select only the normals you want to average each time.

Secondly, not just the normals, but also the vertices are split by SLAV, leaving you with a lot of overlapping vertices. This means extra geometry you do not need, with an extra load on the network and rendering process, for no reason at all.

Third reason is I like to keep an object like the avatar as a single object. SLAV splits the model into three pieces, according to their material.

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So here is what I'd do:

Import/create the avatar with SLAV.

Select the three objects, not the skeleton.

Make a copy of them, convert to editable poly and attach them to eachother, so you end up with a single object.

Select all vertices and weld them together, make sure you have a very small threshold so you don't weld vertices that aren't in the same location.

Make sure the individual polygons have three different material IDs, so you can texture the head, upper body and lower body separately.

Select all polygons and put them in one smoothing group.

You now have a single object, without overlapping vertices, completely smooth and with all the UV data unchanged. It's no longer rigged though, so that needs to be redone.

Select the new single object.

Apply a skin wrap modifier to it.

Add the three original objects and convert to skin, make sure the distance is at an absolute minimum, the vertices of the new and old are still in exactly the same position, so that's not an issue.

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It looks like a lot of work, but in my experience it's a lot faster than editing all the normals, not to mention you end up with a slightly more efficient object.

Editing the normals can be very effective in other cases, for example interchangable body parts that need to blend in with the avatar. If you (for some reason I can't think of right away) want to keep three separate objects, it's also the way to go.

 

EDIT @arton: I see you wrote "Unify", I assumed you wrote "Average Selected". That will get rid of the smoothing group issues in one click, but I don't see how it solves the issue with the seams created by duplicate verts. Am I missing something? The only way I see to match the normals in those areas is by "averaging" them, that means selecting and "averaging" vert by vert.

[Kitsune Shan]

So far, the way that PixelPerfection mentioned is the best, easiest and faster way of doing it.
Editing normals is pretty easy and fast. You dont need edit them one by one, just select all around the edge and use the Unify button. It takes 2 clicks really...

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

As I said, I could be missing something, but I can't figure out how to unify two normals from different vertices.

[Kitsune Shan]

Select both meshes, add the "Edit normals" modifyer, select the normals from the edges that need to be "fused" and hit the Unify button.

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

That doesn't work for me. Only the "Average Selected" works in that case. For me the "Unify" only works on normals that share a vertex.

[Kitsune Shan]

mmm Sorry, may be that

[arton Rotaru]

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Kwakkelde Kwak wrote:

 

EDIT @arton: I see you wrote "Unify", I assumed you wrote "Average Selected". That will get rid of the smoothing group issues in one click, but I don't see how it solves the issue with the seams created by duplicate verts. Am I missing something? The only way I see to match the normals in those areas is by "averaging" them, that means selecting and "averaging" vert by vert.

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Well, first of all I assume a clean mesh to begin with. Selecting the Normals across the objects seam isn't really that much of a pain. It's done in 5 minutes for the waist and neck of the SL avatar. Making it all one piece, is the easiest way to get rid of shading seams between objects, of course. But he/she asked for 3 pieces to match. And that's where the Edit Normals Modifier comes into play.

Which buttons should be used is described in Autodesks documentation of the Edit Normals Modifier. That's why I linked it.

 

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

I really want this to work:)

I just can't figure it out, not with the help page either. Are you sure you can select all normals on a seam between objects and unify them? Given the 5 minute estimate, I have the feeling you use the "average selected" command, otherwise it would take more like 5 seconds.

Even though it looks like a lot of work, the workflow I posted takes a whole lot less than 5 minutes.

As I said (and you as well), if you want to keep the 3 objects separate, you're absolutely right, the "Edit Normals" modifier works really well for that.

One other thing, the avatar created by SLAV is far from clean. UV seams turn into split edges (= duplicate verts), different materials turn into separate objects. On top of that there are the small glitches I mentioned. At least this is how I get my SLAV avatars presented.

[Kitsune Shan]

The splitted edges are really in the mesh. The avatar is old and they way used to be made it is as well plus each different part represents the morphs so technically they are separated even in world. This is really a common technique for 3D models using morphs that doesnt use bones for shape customization.

And for the rest, yes, MaxSLAV really sucks and is NOT well made. It doesnt even import the lenght of the bones and if you look at the neck, you will find a lot of wrong rigged vertex lol. But well, I guess that this is the only thing that we have at time to import our own avatar

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

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Kitsune Shan wrote:

The splitted edges are really in the mesh.

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I'm not so sure about that, but it's possible. As far as I can remember, the available obj files of the SL avatar don't have these split edges on UV seams. Inworld the splits aren't visible either, so either there are no splits or the vertex normals are edited.

The big question however is: How do we fix it in 3ds Max as fast as possible. Again, I really wish the "Unify" option works, as it would be the fastest by far. I just don't see how.

[Kitsune Shan]

They are in the original avatar files provided by LL.

I guess TPV may have use another way of exporting them, who knows. But I have been using the original files for long before all mesh stuff comes around and they were there all the time. Then I realized that are right in the areas that you can shape diferently. I remember also on Phoenix you could export the morphs separatedly and even import new ones to customize your head or any other part lol. But of course, this only worked in a local way till you log off Still was funny yo play with.

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

As I said, it's possible and there are many avatar meshes around. I really don't know when and how and from what they were exported. I do know in SL you don't see the edges as split.

It's not that big a deal anyway if you ask me, I only use a handful of avatars from SL: my own and the "standard sizes". They're easy enough to clean up if you want to, but they won't be imported back into SL, so even that is not really important. All that matters is the shape. SLAV imports the shape just fine.