Exporting Resized Avatar Mesh from Blender

[Seren Sautereau]

Heya. I've been messing with Blender a little trying to resize my avi and export it as a mesh. I use 2.49 as that's the one I'm most comfortable with still. Which doesn't really say much as I'm really not that comfortable with it.

Anyway, I followed a simple tutorial video and successfully exported the default avi from Blender avatar-workbench to SL.

Then I tried doing the same to my own avatar model. Failed, lots.

Steps taken:

1. Used Phoenix to export my shape into another layer of the avatar-workbench file as wavefornt objects.

2. Copied the bone weights from the male model in the file to my own. This model has the missing vertex groups.

3. Parented to armature.

(In some attempts I selected "Make Real" on each body part to apply the modifier. Whether I did or not had no effect on the final outcome.)

4. Selected my model and the armature, scaled them and applied via Object > Apply Scale/Rot

5. Attempted to export using the Collada 1.4 option.

Issues:

On the tutorial it only had "Export selection only" selected. If I try to do this I get errors. The only times it has exported successfully I needed "Export Current Scene" selected too.

When importing to SL Skin Weights were not selectable, meaning I couldn't select joint either. I've seen this issue before when playing with mesh clothing, butthat was a while ago. I think that was down to missing vertices but that's not what's going on here.

I know the issue is with my own model as the default one included on the file works easily exactly how it should, so could anybody please point out what simple thing I'm missing?

Thanks.

 

[Luc Starsider]

Let's see if I can give any useful information...

I haven't used Blender 2.49 for a looooong time, so I might be somewhat off. It shouldn't be too different from the newer version, though.

After you copy the bone weights to your own avatar model and parent it to the armature, does it work as expected? Can you pose it and move the limbs?

I don't think you need to scale the model or the armature unless you want the mesh to be different than what you can manage by changing the shape sliders in the viewer. The mesh will scale with the changes. Well some of them, not all. If you want to make a tiny avatar, you could scale it in Blender.

As far as I remember, you do need to click 'Make real' before exporting to a dae file. If you don't, it may be a reason you can not check to include skin weights in the SL uploader. I'm not sure if this though.

Further, I don't think you have to select the armature as part of the export in 2.49. Just the head, upper and lower body of the mesh. In the export dialog, you should select to apply modifiers, export selection only and any other relevant setting.

Hope this is of some help, but there is a chance I'm wrong about any and all of it...

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

Never tested it, but shouldn't the armature be uploaded with the mesh only when you change the joint positions? That would make sense to me at least. The mesh contains enough data to work with the SL skeleton (bone names and weights), the skeleton just contains the joint positions and hierarchy.

[Seren Sautereau]

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Luc Starsider wrote:

Let's see if I can give any useful information...

I haven't used Blender 2.49 for a looooong time, so I might be somewhat off. It shouldn't be too different from the newer version, though.

After you copy the bone weights to your own avatar model and parent it to the armature, does it work as expected? Can you pose it and move the limbs?

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Yep, had plenty of practice at that part. Limbs work perfectly.

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Luc Starsider wrote:

I don't think you need to scale the model or the armature unless you want the mesh to be different than what you can manage by changing the shape sliders in the viewer. The mesh will scale with the changes. Well some of them, not all. If you want to make a tiny avatar, you could scale it in Blender.

---

Yes the test I'm doing is to scale it down a lot, just messing around to see how it all works. The video I watched says to do this and apply the changes.

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Luc Starsider wrote:

As far as I remember, you do need to click 'Make real' before exporting to a dae file. If you don't, it may be a reason you can not check to include skin weights in the SL uploader. I'm not sure if this though.

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I'm not sure either, that's why I tried both methods. Both failed.

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Luc Starsider wrote:

Further, I don't think you have to select the armature as part of the export in 2.49. Just the head, upper and lower body of the mesh. In the export dialog, you should select to apply modifiers, export selection only and any other relevant setting.

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I get script errors (I don't know the error) when exporting with "Export Selection Only". And sometimes whatever I try to select does the same but that's down to me screwing around with different ways of setting up the model. I don't remember if I've tried without the armature. I'll give it a go in a little bit, taking a break from frustration

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Luc Starsider wrote:

Hope this is of some help, but there is a chance it is wrong about any and all of it...

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Thank you for your help

[Trixie Wyx]

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Kwakkelde Kwak wrote:

Never tested it, but shouldn't the armature be uploaded with the mesh only when you change the joint positions? That would make sense to me at least. The mesh contains enough data to work with the SL skeleton (bone names and weights), the skeleton just contains the joint positions and hierarchy.

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Yeah minimize it to the necessary. The viewer gets in a tizzy and avatars "spasm" if more than one skeleton definition is attached.

[Luc Starsider]

Seren Sautereau wrote:

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Luc Starsider wrote:

I don't think you need to scale the model or the armature unless you want the mesh to be different than what you can manage by changing the shape sliders in the viewer. The mesh will scale with the changes. Well some of them, not all. If you want to make a tiny avatar, you could scale it in Blender.

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Yes the test I'm doing is to scale it down a lot, just messing around to see how it all works. The video I watched says to do this and apply the changes.

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I have scaled done this in v. 2.6x and managed to make it work. If I recall correctly, I scaled the armature down when it was in posemode. This also scales the mesh attached to it down. After importing to SL it worked fine. I don't remember if I applied scale in this case, but I suspect I did. Also, in this case I believe you have to select the armature and export with the mesh.

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Seren Sautereau wrote:

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I'll give it a go in a little bit, taking a break from frustration

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I hear you!

 

 

I hope someone else comes by with more useful information. Good luck!

[Luc Starsider]

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Kwakkelde Kwak wrote:

Never tested it, but shouldn't the armature be uploaded with the mesh only when you change the joint positions? That would make sense to me at least. The mesh contains enough data to work with the SL skeleton (bone names and weights), the skeleton just contains the joint positions and hierarchy.

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You're absolutely right. That's what I thought, and why I said I didn't think the armature had to be selected as part of the export. But I'm not very good at explaining, so that perhaps didn't read the way I meant it?

However... In the version of Blender that is in development - v. 2.64 - you have to include the armature in the export for some reason. Otherwise rigging information is not included and you can't select to include skin weights in the SL uploader.

Until that version is released, you should not have to include the armature.

[Seren Sautereau]

Tried again without exporting armature.

Imported head, upper and lower body; copied bone weights; scaled with armature and applied.

On export selected the 3 parts, export collada 1.4, selected: Triangles; Check weights; selection only; Use relative parts; Apply modifiers.

Won't export. Script error: AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'name' 

[Seren Sautereau]

Ok I think it exported but Blender crashed as I did it lol

Now I know what the error was I found another post from ages ago about it. Checked Use UV Image Maps and it exported (then crashed, but that's rather normal for my system).

Let's see if skin weights is selectable in game now.

[Gaia Clary]

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Luc Starsider wrote:

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However... In the version of Blender that is in development - v. 2.64 - you have to include the armature in the export for some reason. Otherwise rigging information is not included and you can't select to include skin weights in the SL uploader.

Until that version is released, you should not have to include the armature.

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The reason why the armature is included in Blender's collada export is simple: To our best knowledge a Collada file with Weight data but missing skeleton is not compliant to the Collada specifications. That is why we do not add the weight data to the export unless also the armature is also exported.

The reason why it works with Second Life is simple: The SL Importer does not care about the Skeleton data, because the SL skeleton is fixed.... Unless the user enables "with joint positions". In that case only(!) the SL Importer also looks at the Skeleton data.

Long talk, short result:

For rigged meshes we now always have to add the armature(skeleton) to the export (collada specification). In our own product there is even no choice at all. It does always export the armature for an object if it exists.

You have to decide during Import to SL if you want the skeleton to be uploaded or not. And you only want to upload the skeleton if it differs from the default skeleton. Otherwise you get all sorts of inconveniences but no benefits.

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

Sorry to throw you off a bit, I wasn't suggesting you should try to do this, I was just responding to Luc.

I don't use Blender, so I really can't help with any Blender specifics, that includes (probably most of) your issue.

If you want to upload a tiny version of yourself, you most certainly need to include the armature, otherwise your tiny mesh will conform to the normal size SL skeleton. The only way to change that skeleton is to replace it with a new one, in other words, uploading the armature. The meshes just hold the data to determine the distance between each vertex and the joints, they have no data for the joints themselves.

[Gaia Clary]

okey... well, you run into ALL problems you can have with Blender 2.49

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Seren Sautereau wrote:

Tried again without exporting armature.

Imported head, upper and lower body; copied bone weights; scaled with armature and applied.

On export selected the 3 parts, export collada 1.4, selected: Triangles; Check weights; selection only; Use relative parts; Apply modifiers.

Won't export. Script error: AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'name' 

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• go to your material settings
• remove all materials
• add materials back as you need them

export

 

[Seren Sautereau]

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Kwakkelde Kwak wrote:

Sorry to throw you off a bit, I wasn't suggesting you should try to do this, I was just responding to Luc.

I don't use Blender, so I really can't help with any Blender specifics, that includes (probably most of) your issue.

If you want to upload a tiny version of yourself, you most certainly need to include the armature, otherwise your tiny mesh will conform to the normal size SL skeleton. The only way to change that skeleton is to replace it with a new one, in other words, uploading the armature. The meshes just hold the data to determine the distance between each vertex and the joints, they have no data for the joints themselves.

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See this is what I thought. Which is why I've been trying with the armature. I think I can make it work now if it will even upload. Having issues with the SL uploader taking forever lol.

 

 

Why can't they just make things simple for noobs like me

On that note, I'm sure I read somewhere that an idea was brought up that would make it all but impossible for your basic user to create anything worthwhile with mesh. Off topic I know. I'll see how this goes.

[Gaia Clary]

and yes, blender 2.49 loves to crash during export of collada files. All you can do: restart blender, hope you have saved your work, export agin. that works in most cases.

[Seren Sautereau]

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Gaia Clary wrote:

and yes, blender 2.49 loves to crash during export of collada files. All you can do: restart blender, hope you have saved your work, export agin. that works in most cases.

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Oh I thought it was just me.

 

And thank you, it was your tutorial video I watched on resixing the avi which made me think "I can do that!"

So I was close to completely wrong, but soon I'll be able to say it again

 

[Luc Starsider]

Thank you Gaia! I know you've explained this more than once. I seem to be unable to retain the information. Perhaps this time...