Wacom Bamboo/Intuos 5--Need Advice

[Morgaine Christensen]

I have been tossing around the idea of purchasing a tablet for computer drawing, but need have some questions and need advice from those that use them, either professionally or as hobbyist, before investing.

I tried using a small Bamboo a few years back (borrowed) and did not care for the pen that came with it plus I found it difficult and terribly small.  Could not get things to coodrinate ....this was when the Bamboo first came out...can't recall how long ago that has been.  But, I tound it rather awkward to use and didn't invest.

I currently run an iMac with a 27 inch screen and use CS5 Extended.  What I would like to do, is be able to use one of the Intuos or, Bamboos  for making SL clothing (have some other drawing needs outside SL as well..this is merely current example) for curvy lines...some that I can have more control over and a bit more natural input device..  While CS5 allows me to make straight perfect lines, everything else looks horrible. It looks like some child drawing with crayons.  The  Pen Tool has it's limits.   Using a regular mouse, Mac Track Mouse, and/or a trackball are difficult for control in my opinion.  But, I am older and use to paper and pen to be creative for many years...it is natural to me.   Computer art fascinates me and allows me to be creative in ways I never could before so I want to explore more.

I don't know if this is possible or even how to go about doing this with one of the above devices.  What I want to do is be able to print out say Chip Midnight & Robin Woods templates on paper, put it on the Intuos/Bamboo...do my art work on the paper so to speak and have it show up on the template in CS5 accurately. 

I am looking for more hand control than what mice allows me to do.  I am older and a pen is much more natual in my hand than a mouse.  Is what I am whanting to do possible?  Is it easy to do? Are there size issues between paper & the on screen templates (I generally work on 1024 x 1024)?  What would you recommend.  I am looking at possibly the medium to large Intuos 5...leaning towards the medium one due to size.  Do most run with USB or Wireless?

Thanks!

 

 

 

 

 

[Vegro Solari]

Good thinking with printing out a template on paper and drawing on it- a lot of pro artists working with Intuos do that, so you'll be just fine too once you get used to the special technique of tablet-ing. (it's like anything) The intuos pen is much nicer than Bamboo and you have options with it.

The Bamboo is a fun toy and basically a waste of money that would be better put towards a proper Intuous. You do not need the super large sized one either (those are more for drafting etc., and less convenient for art .the standard one or medium are both perfect. I'd get the standard.).

The intuos brings a touch into your workflow that is difficult to accomplish with digital drawing, your personality and "hand" will come through much more. The draw space on the tablet maps to the screen, so the corner of the tablet is the corner of the screen - regardless of the resolution you're working on. So to use the printout template, you'd just make sure that you scale the printout to the proportions of the tablet (since it's not square) or scale it smaller and utilize part of the tablet if you prefer working 1:1.

 

There's also an expensive product called Cintique that is a tablet that actually displays what you see on the screen, letting someone draw right on the pixels. Very good, but pricey.

[Chosen Few]

Hi, Morgaine.  I've been using Wacom tablets for many years. I've stated many times on this forum, that I'd sell my first born before I'd give up my Intuos.

The main weapon in my arsenal is a 13x19" Intuos3.  I also have a 6x8" one, which I carry with my laptop.  They are both indispensible, and abslutely vital to my work.  Really, I'd be lost without them.

I'm drooling over the Intuos5, by the way.  The Multi-Touch features look amazing.  The abilty to rotate and zoom with one hand, while drawing with the other is pure genius.  If and when they come out with a 13x19" version, I'm gonna be mighty tempted.

I've never used a Bamboo, but I did start out with its predecessor, the Graphire, back in the day.  The key difference then, as now, between the Intuos and the Graphire/Bamboo, is that the Intuos senses both the pressure and the tilt angle of the pen, while the Graphire/Bamboo only senses pressure.   Also, the Intuos has double the pressure sensitivity, and double the resolution, of the Bamboo. 

The tilt really makes an incredible difference in the feel of your work..  Without it, there's a slightly sterile, slightly disconnected feel to what you're doing.  With it, the work feels completely natural.  Really, using an Intuos feels just like drawing on paper.  

The differences don't stop with just the tablets themselves.  The pens are also different.  The Grip Pen that comes with the Intuos is heavier, thicker, and far more comfortable to hold than the 'plain Jane' plastic pen that comes with the Bambo.  It's also highly customizable, with a variety of different nibs and rubber grips available for it.   Also, there's a full line of specialty pens (and mice) available for the Intuos, in addition to the Grip Pen.

Bottom line, if you're serious about your art (which I know you are), the Intuos is for you.  The Bamboo, while a great device in its own right (it''s still a Wacom, after all), just doesn't hold a candle to the Intuos.

As far as size goes, I tell everyone the same thing.  Bigger is better.  Get the biggest one you can afford.  The logic is simple.  If a large tablet feels too big, you can always set its active area to be smaller, but if a small tablet feels too cramped, there's no way you can magically make it grow.  Plus, from what you've written here, I think you'll find, just as I do, that the closer the tablet is to the physical size of the monitor, the more natural it feels to use.

By the way, if the tablet size you want won't fit on your desk, get a bigger desk.  Don't let your work space cramp your art.  When you've got room to move properly, your artwork will thank you for it, and so will your health.

 

Now, as for printing out the templates to draw on, the technical answer is yes, you CAN do that.  However, practically speaking, you'll find that it's not such a great idea as you might have thought.  There are three main problems:

 

1.  Focus

If you're looking down at the tablet, you can't see what's happening on the screen. Unless you plan on rubber-banding your gaze back and forth every split second, I just don't see how it can work for anything more complex than simple tracing operations.

I never look down at my tablet while I'm working.  That's one of the primary benefits of using it in the first place, as far as I'm concerned.  You never have to look.  Your eyes can remain firmly glued to the screen, as your drawing hand just naturally does its thing.   There's simply no reason to take your focus off the screen, ever.

People often talk about using tablets for tracing artwork.  Wacom even uses that example as part of their sales pitch.  It's important to remember, however, that texturing and drawing are different tasks.  Texturing requires absolute per-pixel precision.  Tracing lineart, generally speaking, does not.   Texturing also involves the use of a great many tools in Photoshop that one would never use for tracing in a million years.  For texturing, I really can't imagine doing anything other than working entirely on-screen the whole time.

 

2.  Real World Imprecision

The real world doesn't work quite the way the digital world does.  In the real world, everything has actual physical thickness to it, while in the digital world, many things have no size at all.  When you print the templates out, the lines will have real-world thickness to them., but the UV edges in the digital world have no thickness whatsoever.  This disparity is a recipe for frustration, waiting to happen.

When you touch the pen to the paper where a line appears to be, you might not hit it dead center.  If you're a little off center, the cursor on-screen may be several pixels away from where the UV edge actually is.  Move the pen over a little to compensate, and now it could be a few pixels off in the other direction, even though on the paper, the pen has been touching the line the whole time.  There's just no way in the real world to produce a line that has no thickness, so there's no way to make it appropriately correspond with a UV edge.  As if that weren't enough, now consider how the real-world thickness of the pen tip, the inherent imprecision of human eyesight, etc., also factor in.

The only real solution to this ties back to the previous point about focus.  If you're looking at the screen the whole time, you'll never have to worry about these kinds of mismatches between the digital and the physical.  Keep focused on the just the screen, and your hand will naturally guide the cursor to wherever your eye tells it to go.  It's only when you look away from the screen that any of this becomes an issue.

 

2.  Zoom, Rotation, etc.

Let's imagine for a moment that you somehow do overcome the previous two problems, and you are able to assign an absolutely precise 1:1 ratio between your printout and the on-screen image.  Well, what happens when you need to zoom in or out, or rotate the canvas, or even just move the Photoshop window a little?  As soon as you make the slightest change to any element of the screen layout , all of your careful alignment will go right out the window.  After all, the paper can't magically resize itself when you zoom in or out, and it's not about to move all by itself when you move or rotate the on-screen canvas. There's just no way to keep the physical precisely coordinated with the digital at all times.

 

If you simply must be able to work directly on the canvas, then you want a Cintiq. The 24HD is a pretty amazing device, if you've got the cash. 

Me, I'm good with my hands on the desk, and my eyes looking forward.  I'm sure you will be, too. The problems you mentioned that are inherent to working with a mouse all disappear very quickly when you start using a tablet.  It may just be a little awkward for the first few hours, if the mouse is what you're used to, but after that, you never look back.

[Abu Nasu]

I bought a medium Bamboo sometime ago. I'm not super serious and it suites me fine (so far). My only real gripe is the pen. Way too light and it feels like a plastic straw. Very annoying and makes for feeling the buttons near the knib a real pain as I have a tendency to rotate between my fingers as I draw. My fingers then feel for the knib buttons and they are in the way wrong spot.

I do know one guy that was very super serious about his digital art. He took on a second job during the summer doing landscaping just so he could get the biggest and baddest Intuos (we barely saw him at all during that summer - blood, sweat, and tears to get it). He did, in fact, get a much bigger desk to accommodate. I think he went with an L-shaped desk, but I don't remember for sure.

 

[Morgaine Christensen]

Thanks to everyone that responded.  I sincerely appreciate the feedback. 

After doing more research and listening to valuable advice given, I have taken the plunge and just ordered the large Intuos with the wireless setup and the case. I think I will wait on the pens for a bit till I see how the one that comes with it reacts.  Not sure how I am going to arrange my desk for this (is no more room anywhere LOL) to be effective, but with the tilt I may be okay.

Again, my thanks to everyone.

 

[Chosen Few]

Glad to hear it, Morgaine.  I'm sure you'll love it. 

Just keep in mind, as I mentioned earlier, that any tablet does take a little getting used to.  After years of built up muscle memory associated with the relative positioning of a mouse, the absoute positioning of the pen can throw your body for a little bit of a loop.  You end up trying to lift the pen at intervals, and reposition it, to push the cursor along, just like you've always done with the mouse.  Until your body accepts that one of the pen's main purposes is specifically to relive you of having to do that in the first place, it becomes an exercise in, "Dammit, why do I keep doing that?"  You'll find that the old habit goes away after the first few hours, so it's no big deal.  It's just somewhat awkward until then.

Let us know how it goes for you.

[Morgaine Christensen]

LOL...I think you are terribly optimistic about  "old habit goes away after the first few hours"!  Took me years to get the way I am now.  Being older and set in my ways, may take me more than a few  hours to change.  Honestly, I am not sure how much I will use it, but am anxious to see what I can do with the clothing templates.  While it is still new to SL, I really hate mesh clothing, maybe I have limited imagination, but it all looks alike to me.  I think there is still room in SL for layered clothing and of a conservative bent.  So,  I want to see what I can do with something that is alot more natural than a mouse.   

I will never be a graphic artist really...my drawing skills are abominable,  but I do what I do for enjoyment and creativity, sort of like Grandma Moses did when she created her art work.  I like digital art, and strive to add to it, whether via prim creations, textures, modeling, etc.  I find it fascinating and actually incorporate some of the ideas and applications where I work, which has nothing in common with various creative endeavors in SL, in a non-traditional manner.  Drives my bosses at work crazy but ends up being quite useful.

Also, I am curious to see what is possible with Sketchbook Express for iPad and the desktop verison.  Wondering if the files will interface with Photoshop at all.  I wish Adobe would put a little more effort into making Photoshop portable for iPad.

I ordered the items direct from Wacom and wish now I had went another route.  Will probably be the end of next week or the middle of the following week before the order is received.  My experience with them has been rather odd from them not being able to ship to a different address than a billing address, to having to reverify my information by phone after the order was placed, and now,  I  have received an email me asking how I came up with my email  ID I have been using since 1985 or '86 AOL days.  I don't know if they are trying to provide excellent and secure service or what...I find it odd, very odd.

Anyway, I am anxious to get started and will let everyone know what I thinking in the near future.

[Vegro Solari]

I'm pretty certain there lots and lots of room for the texture based clothing designs without any mesh. Just think of it as another tool/possibility,  it can't really take out every other form, especially not the art of design outta the equation.

Did I read that right? Wacom wants to know how you came up with your email ID, Morgaine?

[Morgaine Christensen]

Yep, they sent me an email asking how I came up with my email ID...not the one I use with SL or my AV name but one I have had for years and years.  This was AFTER  they called me back, after placing my order and it approved by my CC.  They called and re-verified ALL my information. This whole experience has been so odd and disconcerting.

When I questioned  via return email why they wanted to know about mey email ID, I was told that it was a method of fraud detection and my  ID was not a "catchy phrase" nor have part of my name, so I suppose it flagged their fraud detection software.  My odd ID was set up for security reasons for just this type of thing.....sssseeesssshhhh! 

Granted, I understand the need for security, but to be honest, I felt like some criminal rather than a new customer placing an order.  You would think I was adopting a child or applying for government security clearance rather than ordering a product.  I do hope the product is worth all this hassle because I am not feeling really good about Wacom at this time and not sure I want to spend more money with them to support a company that paints customers as criminals until proven not guilty.  

I honestly have never had an experience such as this before. I hope this is not the norm or, becomes the norm with other companies.

[Vegro Solari]

Wow!  That's beyond strange.

 

I wonder how many snarky customers they get who tell them it's none of their damn business, or ask how they'd come up with "Wacom"!

[Chosen Few]

Sorry to hear you had that strange experience, Morgaine.  Sounds like they're just being overly cautious.  Such things can be frustrating, and I get as annoyed by them as anyone else, but at the same time, I do try to remind myself it's ultimately for my own protection.  If I have to make the choice, I'd rather be annoyed than robbed.

My guess is they probably have a security firm monitoring their transactions for certain red flags, and probably doing random spot checks as well.  If your E-mail address seems like it might be just randomly generated characters or something, I can understand how it might trigger an alert.  

Live human anti-fraud methods are becoming more and more common these days, across all industries.  The badguys have been using social engineering tactics for years to steal people's vital information.  It's not that surprising that at least some of the 'goodguys' are looking to catch them the same way.   Some do happen to be better at not making you feel like they think you're a criminal than others, though.  It sounds like whoever you dealt with might not be so great at that, which is unfortunate.

 

As for Wacom itself, I've only had positive dealings with their customer service people.  Now, I do have to qualify that statement with the reality that since their products tend to last forever (knock on wood), I haven't had any reason to contact them in years.  So, the possibility that their level of service may have gone down hill since I last spoke with them is not zero.  I do think it's very unlikely, though.  I've never heard any complaints.

In any case, you're getting a sweet tablet.  I'm looking forward to hearing how you make out with it.

[Morgaine Christensen]

Yes, I would say they are being overly cautious.  I thought the phone call verifying should of been enough.  Not really sure why they honed in on the email address, it.not nonsense letters, characters, symbols etc.   Oh well, I suppose it is over and done with at this point.  Just struck me wrong since I have been involved with Customer Service for decades; it is not the working model we operate off to entice customers, especially new ones when economic times are tough.

I must have pasted their strengent guidelines...LOL...they have shipped my order and it should be delivered this coming Monday. After all this hoo ha, I am even more anxious to try it out.    Will keep you posted.

[Morgaine Christensen]

WOW...received my Intuos when I got home after work last night....huge...I need a bigger desk...maybe should have gotten the medium sized one.  This thing is rather complicated with all the settings you can do...just WOW. This is going to take some getting use to!  But, I do like that it can function as a touch pad, which is not dissimilar to my iPad. And, I see where...I think this is right...I can set the pen so I can do my clicks with it instead of a mouse or that weird rocker on the pen.  I think tap clicking will be more natural than using that rocker once I get the sensitivity down.

Played with it a bit but had to stop cause it was driving me bonkers after a long day at the office.  It is rather annoying not to be able to put you hand down in the drawing/writing area without it causing some weirdness.  And, somehow it has messed with my wireless trackball so going have to figure out that issue...just little annoyances for sure at this point. I also have to say that Mac's tablet touch interface  options need a lot of  improvement in my book.

Will keep folks updated and probably have questions of you old pros...this is complicated from looking at the manual..LOL

Be well and enjoy

[Chosen Few]

Sounds like you've got some fun setup tweaking ahead of you, lots and lots of preferences to customize.  I can offer a few sugestions, if you like.

 

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Morgaine Christensen wrote:

And, I see where...I think this is right...I can set the pen so I can do my clicks with it instead of a mouse or that weird rocker on the pen.  I think tap clicking will be more natural than using that rocker once I get the sensitivity down.

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Quite right.  The option is called "Click & Tap" (unless by chance they've renamed it for the newer devices).   I keep Click & Tap enabled on mine at all times.  I'm not a fan of the other option, called "Hover Click", which allows for clicking just by pressing the rocker buttons, without actually having to tap.  That just feel unnatural to me.  The way my brain works, tap = click, and that's that.  It sounds like you're the same way, from what you wrote.

That doesn't mean I don't use the rocker buttons, though.  They're hugely important.  Here's how I keep my pen set, for most appiications:

• Tap = left click
• Rocker forward + tap = middle click
• Rocker back + tap = right click

For Photoshop, I make a slight change:

• Tap = left click
• Rocker forward + tap = pressure hold.
• Rocker back + tap = right click

The pressure hold is useful if I need to draw a line with uniform thickness, and since the middle mouse button has no function in Photoshop, it's an easy trade.  If pressure hold isn't particularly important to you, I might suggest mapping it to the spacebar instead, which will make it functuion as the hand tool, for easy panning.

There are lots and lots of other functions you can assign to the rocker buttons, as well, and from what I've read about the Intuos5 software, it sounds like they've made it easier than ever to swap between configurations on the fly.  Have fun exploring the options.  Making the pen your own is half the beauty of owning a tablet.

 

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Morgaine Christensen wrote:

It is rather annoying not to be able to put you hand down in the drawing/writing area without it causing some weirdness.

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I can't comment on that directly, since my tablet doesn't have that feature.  However, I've heard some people say they prefer to disable the touch features when in Photoshop, for that reason. I tend to reset my hands on my tablet, though, so I doubt it would be an issue for me. 

Without having actually had the opportunity to try it, I optimistically assume that if I could do multitouch with my left hand, while drawing with my right hand, it would add a whole new dimension to my work flow.  I hope you discover that that's true for you.

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Morgaine Christensen wrote:

I also have to say that Mac's tablet touch interface  options need a lot of  improvement in my book.

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I don't own a Mac, so again I can't comment directly. I have read, however, that Apple believes there should be little if any crossover between computers and touchscreen tablets, so the lack of functionality may well be quite deliberate.  If so, that's a shame.

For what it's worth, as a Windows user I can tell you that Microsoft's built-in tablet interface features blow chunks, too, even though MS did put a lot of development into them (back when the though TabletPC laptops were going to be the future).  I find them annoying, not useful.  I keep them all turned off.  Every once in a blue moon, a Windows update will switch them back on, which makes me want to drive to Redmond and stab someone to death with my pen.

Windows 8 supposedly gets it right, though.  We'll find out soon enough, I guess.  If it turns out to be a winner, maybe Apple will improve theirs, as well.  Both companies routinely steal each other's ideas, after all, even as they put their own spin on them.

 

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Morgaine Christensen wrote:

And, somehow it has messed with my wireless trackball so going have to figure out that issue

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Trackball?!!!  Sounds like you and my mom would get along great.  She's a professional photographer, who's been doing all her Photoshop work on a trackball for years.  I don't know how she manages it. Personally, I can't stand trackballs.  To me, it's such a struggle for any degree of control with that thing.  Whenever she needs me to come over and do something on her computer, it makes me want to tear my hair out.  I guess it's all in what you're used to.

I did buy Mom a Wacom for her birthday a few years back.  She was super excited.  I'd done good.  But unfortunately, her dog was equally excited about it.  He was so happy that I'd brought him this great new pen-shaped chew toy.  As soon as no one was looking, he snatched it off the desk, and promptly shredded it into a million little pieces.  When I told Mom what it would cost to replace the pen, the tablet never saw the light of day again.  So disappointing.  Oh, the joys of pet ownership.

Anyway, I'm sure it won't be difficult to resolve the wireless device conflicts, but I do have to say I'm curious why a trackball needs to be wireless in the first place.  It just sits there, right?  Some people (not me) like to put the tablet in their lap when they draw, or store it off the desk when they're not drawing, so I can see the merit in the wireless option for that (even though I would never get use out of it myself).  But are there really situations in which you need to move your trackball off the desk?  Just wondering.

[Morgaine Christensen]

Is sad...has her new toy hooked up but no time to mess with it due to RL...all that complexity of settings hurts my brains, so I will be printing your post, Chosen.  I am sooo much better having that piece of papers in my hand, so I am sure I would get along with your mom must fine *winks*

LOL...Yep, love my trackball...helps my carpal tunnel plus easier to navigate quickly between to monitors...and hoping, the tablet will assist in that endeavor as well..  Actually, I use a couple of different mice for different programs.

Thanks for the great tips...will be useful...and will probably have more questions when I get time to start delving into the tablet!

 

Have a great Day!