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Member
GothGirl Demonia
Posts: 487

New TOS Question.

[ Edited ]

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Featured-News/Updated-Second-Life-Terms-of-Service/ba-p/1996185 

https://secondlife.com/corporate/tos.php?lang=en-US#tos5

I read this article posted by Linden Lab, does this mean that I can no longer use any third party sites like AnsheX, or any of the third party sellers on google also know is gold sellers?

Also reading 5.3 of the Second Life Terms OF Service it doesnt matter because if someones account like when my entire inventory was deleted by a malicious hacker which could have been prevented had LL had IP Verification someone could have spent up to $3000 on my account commited frauid and laundered out the money fast enough through third party sells, or by spend it through merchants in world, or other means of cashing out which means such as cashing it out through alternate accounts not linked directly to anyone elses account aka different IP/MAC addresses and can't be traced by FDIC/Government couldn't this mean that a person could still cash out and or doesnt 5.3 mean that if this happend and someone was paid for a service with illegal money they would loose they money they were paid.

Linden Lab, seriously there needs to be better security added to consumers accounts in this case and fraud protection, I understand we are dealing with virtual content, and virtual assets, but its still real money and this could possibly lead to serious legal issues.


So yeah anyways can someone who knows possibly answer the question about if money is allowed to be purchased through third party sites still I am confused
.

 

And on a bit off topic.


The TOS is Long, Read it but its not like Everyone is going to follow the TOS anyways especially when it comes to Merchants, CopyBot, License Rights, and generally following User Created Agreements which are not legally binding which people will debate me over it I would say they should be honored as being a supporter of such but legally in SL We need better content as merchants to protect our agreements such as textures, sounds, and such which can only be used and sold inside objects created by the merchant, new permissions systems and so on.

And most of all we need something done about the Griefer website which is offering Goods of all the best merchants in SL illegally for free download, and also the person behind hacking a bunch of players SL accounts in various ways and phishing attempts on merchants.

TDD123
Posts: 452
Registered: ‎12-21-2012

Re: New TOS Question.

[ Edited ]

Reply to GothGirl Demonia - view message


GothGirl Demonia wrote:

So yeah anyways can someone who knows possibly answer the question about if money is allowed to be purchased through third party sites still I am confused.



From the website of one exchange office I regularly use to acquire Linden.

 

"To all of our customers,

Because of the new ToS of Linden lab, we have received many questions of customers. At the moment we have not directly recieved a message from Linden Lab concerning activities of DXexchange. We are however consulting other formerly by LL acknowledged exchanges to evaluate the situation.

We will continue our activities as an exchange office as usual. We always have, since 2006, had a good relationship with Linden Lab and it's always been obvious to our customers that buying Linden dollars with DXexchange always has been the responsibility and risk of DXexchange and not the responsibility and risk of LL. So that has not changed.

Because we are liable ourselves for unauthorised credit card transactions we have implemented 1 change : Swift sales of Linden (to other currency) have been made impossible ( cancelled ).


Therefore there's more time for LL to check on transaction orders and we can still block an order, before we do payments.

 

Sjoerd van Essen CEO DXexchange "

 

 ETA : So , yes .. one can still buy Linden with a 3rd party. At least I can. To be honest though .. I won't ... for now. I think I'm going to wait how the dust settles.

 


Look, dwarf : Get off your mountain and do not look down on humans. Even when named Hercules amongst your own. :robotindifferent:
Honored Resident
Maurycy Arado
Posts: 4

Re: New TOS Question.

Reply to GothGirl Demonia - view message

The new ToS does not say precisely that avatars are not allowed to buy LS from other exchanges as well as from other avatars. What is more 5.3  states that "There are other exchanges that are operated by third parties on which Linden dollars are exchanged" but there are not authorised by Linden Lab. In fact they have never been so there is no big change in ToS. 

If  you look at 

1. CHANGES TO THIS AGREEMENT
This Agreement may be changed by Linden Lab effective immediately by notifying you as provided in Section 13.4 below; provided that Material Changes will become effective thirty (30) days after such notification.

you will notcie that even if LL interprets 'not authorised' as 'not allowed' ( what makes the whole paragraph absurd) you still have one month when you can use other exchanges.

Some of them still operate like Anshex, Podex Exchange etc. I do not think that Anshe would work illegally. 

Member
GothGirl Demonia
Posts: 487

Re: New TOS Question.

[ Edited ]

Reply to Maurycy Arado - view message


Maurycy Arado wrote:

The new ToS does not say precisely that avatars are not allowed to buy LS from other exchanges as well as from other avatars. What is more 5.3  states that "There are other exchanges that are operated by third parties on which Linden dollars are exchanged" but there are not authorised by Linden Lab. In fact they have never been so there is no big change in ToS. 

If  you look at 

1. CHANGES TO THIS AGREEMENT
This Agreement may be changed by Linden Lab effective immediately by notifying you as provided in Section 13.4 below; provided that Material Changes will become effective thirty (30) days after such notification.

you will notcie that even if LL interprets 'not authorised' as 'not allowed' ( what makes the whole paragraph absurd) you still have one month when you can use other exchanges.

Some of them still operate like Anshex, Podex Exchange etc. I do not think that Anshe would work illegally. 


I dont think ACS would work illegally however the problem is based on the first link I posted they said they were not allowing any third party exchange outside of Linden Lab Buy & Sell from LindenX?

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Featured-News/Updated-Second-Life-Terms-of-Service/ba-p/1996185

Member
Deja Letov
Posts: 891

Re: New TOS Question.

Reply to Maurycy Arado - view message


Maurycy Arado wrote:

The new ToS does not say precisely that avatars are not allowed to buy LS from other exchanges as well as from other avatars. What is more 5.3  states that "There are other exchanges that are operated by third parties on which Linden dollars are exchanged" but there are not authorised by Linden Lab. In fact they have never been so there is no big change in ToS. 

If  you look at 

1. CHANGES TO THIS AGREEMENT
This Agreement may be changed by Linden Lab effective immediately by notifying you as provided in Section 13.4 below; provided that Material Changes will become effective thirty (30) days after such notification.

you will notcie that even if LL interprets 'not authorised' as 'not allowed' ( what makes the whole paragraph absurd) you still have one month when you can use other exchanges.

Some of them still operate like Anshex, Podex Exchange etc. I do not think that Anshe would work illegally. 


I do believe it is "not allowed". This is part of an email I received from a supprt ticket I sent in yesterday asking for clarification...this comes after she tells me they won't interpret the TOS for me.

"The updated Terms of Service make it clear that trading of Linden dollars (L$) on exchanges other than the LindeX, Second Life’s official L$ exchange, is not authorized. We will enforce our Terms of Service as we always have. Failure to comply with the ToS may result in loss of your Second Life account(s)."

The Elegant Goth - In World Store - Marketplace

Almost Wonderland - In World Store - Marketplace
Member
GothGirl Demonia
Posts: 487

Re: New TOS Question.

[ Edited ]

Reply to Deja Letov - view message


Deja Letov wrote:

Maurycy Arado wrote:

The new ToS does not say precisely that avatars are not allowed to buy LS from other exchanges as well as from other avatars. What is more 5.3  states that "There are other exchanges that are operated by third parties on which Linden dollars are exchanged" but there are not authorised by Linden Lab. In fact they have never been so there is no big change in ToS. 

If  you look at 

1. CHANGES TO THIS AGREEMENT
This Agreement may be changed by Linden Lab effective immediately by notifying you as provided in Section 13.4 below; provided that Material Changes will become effective thirty (30) days after such notification.

you will notcie that even if LL interprets 'not authorised' as 'not allowed' ( what makes the whole paragraph absurd) you still have one month when you can use other exchanges.

Some of them still operate like Anshex, Podex Exchange etc. I do not think that Anshe would work illegally. 


I do believe it is "not allowed". This is part of an email I received from a supprt ticket I sent in yesterday asking for clarification...this comes after she tells me they won't interpret the TOS for me.

"The updated Terms of Service make it clear that trading of Linden dollars (L$) on exchanges other than the LindeX, Second Life’s official L$ exchange, is not authorized. We will enforce our Terms of Service as we always have. Failure to comply with the ToS may result in loss of your Second Life account(s)."


Damn well this could cost LL some money right there I mean I understand why LL wants it done this way due to fraud, but still you are going to have Real Money Trading no matter what from outside sources.

 

In General I bet that because of this.

1. There will be simulators closing down because of loss of profit.

I mean I know that outside sources charge a bit more for their currency, and sell at either a couple of cents lower or higher simply because they can and because they make more profit than cashing out in Second Life you cash out you have to pay a fee for it.

2. Prices will go up a bit more in tier possibly.
3. More Money Laundry will occur because of it people will just make third party trades anyways because of the ability to send L$ in Second Life and they will just use alternate accounts not tied to their MAC/IP Addresses aka illegal trades not linked to their businesses, not saying any company in SL will do this but its likely someone will there are lots of Gold Sellers on the internet.

Also yes Many Land companies in SL will not get into the TOS dispute I have had three land owner companies in Second Life tell me when they had CopyBots using stolen content on their simulator that they would not do anything just to contact Linden Lab for issues reguarding TOS they just rent the land, and I wish Linden Lab would make changes to that policy that if the person absoltuely is informed or aware of the issue they must file an abuse report at least or risk getting banned as well because they are too many who don't care.