Ryuu Radek

Second Life is an immersive, pluralistic, international, New World virtual country. As such, it is 10 years ahead of the market. Think Windows 3.0 or Netscape Navigator or even cellphones. All were considered niche products when they first came out. Because Linden Lab cannot grasp this concept, the company has been trying to convert Second Life into a 3D Facebook, a virtual Disneyland, a corporate conferencing system, a virtual schoolroom and now a teen chatroom. All attempts to turn an apple into an orange have failed. The apple is now starting to rot. Rod this is the core problem that SL has suffered from as far back as I have been around. LL never understood that they were already successful, that they already won and beat out all competition. If you can understand this, if you can talk to early residents about the SL they joined, even as recently as Aug '07 when I created my first avi, you will find that SL was the future and over the years that future has been whittled away until most of us are leaving. It's sad; I found a place that was the embodiment of all the wonderful possibilities I wished the RL could be. Everywhere I went, people were being who and what they wanted and no one gave each other a hard time about it. I often commented how I wished the RL was more like SL. But now I see the RL is encroaching on SL, the "moral majority" (vocal minority more like it) has threatened LL, the corporate clients have expressed their fear of a wild west environment not understanding the vast potential of representing themselves in it. Not to sell product or host virtual conferences (yet another losing idea from the brain trust that is LL) but in simply getting to know the customer, being more accessible. I am more likely to buy products form a company I can gain a personal connection to. And that is what SL is all about. Personal connections in a way that is not facebook, not chat, not the Sims. SL is a vital, real community of people interacting through avatars in a virtual world of their own creation. I will miss SL when it goes through its final sanitization and becomes just another MMORPG to be sold to the highest bidder. But by then I’ll have moved to another GRID and the money I would have been paying to LL will go elsewhere. Rod, I hope you will shake up LL, teach them that customer service is important and restore SL to its glory days. Sure you will hear some who will say that SL is finally a wonderful place for the family, but the reality is, 99% of the people who came here don’t want a place for the family. We want our adult world and we are leaving because that is what LL is taking away. We want what was, not what is. Oh and for crying out loud, I don’t want to have to buy a $5,000 gaming PC just to be in SL, let’s kill the over the top reflective water and dial the graphics back to say 2008. I remember the days of TPing to a sim and seeing it all appear on my screen in one or two seconds, not bloody minutes. Shoppers don’t want to have to stand in the landing zone waiting for the building and venders to rez, they want to get in, shop, and move on. May I suggest you get a 4 year old PC running Windows XP pro and log into SL. If you can move about without lagging every 5 seconds, if you can see all the sim as far as the draw distance can be set within seconds of landing, then SL is fine, if not, then you will know what half the world is experiencing on their older PC’s which they can’t afford to update yet. Remember your customers are not just here in the US, but also in the favelas of Brazil, the small towns of the Czech Republic, and the islands of the Philippians. I really don’t want to lose those people, they enrich my life in both ‘verses. All my best to you and with that my hopes for the future of SL. Honestly I don't want to leave, please don't push me out the door.

bowfluv yeah sounds like you have stuck presence issue (ghost of your AV stuck inworld) make an ALT account you should be able to login on it find your main AV and contact LL to reset the sim and let your spirit free. or simply just contact them first and tell them you are stuck inworld (stuck Precence) is the term and need unsticking as you carnt logg in. hope this helps Wow that still happens. That is why I have this avi, Spend my first New Year deep in SL withdrawal because of the Stuck Presence of my first avi. Of course it happened at the start of a long holiday weekend with no senior tech support to clear the problem. Imagine going form 20+ hours a week to nothing, losing cable would not have been as painful.

Yes it's sad this convo is still going on and the same people are simply repeating over and over again the same arguments, I see even that idiot Nany is back; thought we were rid of her finally, guess not. I honestly wish people would stop referring to sex as bad, There is nothing wrong with sex, I don't care if it's intimate love making with a committed SO or wild fetish sex with someone you just met. If everyone on the planet were getting enough sex there would be a lot less conflict in the world. I know that if one particular person who posts here got laid even once she would either shut up or start singing a dif tune. My guess is no one irl or sl would touch her with a 10' pole. So let me go on record, I have participated and provided services in the SL "sex trade" and no, there is very little money to be made doing it but it does allow me to have a very comfortable SL without having to put RL money into it. What's more, I truly enjoy every second of it. irl and isl I am a swinger and have multiple partners. I probably have more sex with more women in a week RL them many have isl in a month. So when I say there is nothing "dirty" about sex, it's spoken from lots of experience. Also I'm really tired of people putting down us "perverts" who enjoy sex. You don't know me, you don't know the people I associate with. you just want to feel big and important and thumb your nose at people who enjoy life more than you do because you can't get what we have no matter how hard you try. And yes this convo is directed to you Nany, you pent up frustrated niny. Get a life! If the one you find isl is no better than the one you have irl then maybe it's because your personality is flawed and no one wants anything to do with you. Get help, professional help. You're just selfish, it's all about you. Well guess what, no one cares about you at all. You don't count, not even here. Spew your crap, someone may listen and maybe get mad enough to respond. Too bad that is the only way you can get noticed, by angering people, not by saying anything truly worthy of friendly discussion. Jami you are correct about many things you mention here, I even agree with the comment about the penis wearing avi repeating "wanna f--k? wanna f--k?" would drive any potential business out before giving SL a real look, but the truth be told, SL or any virtual world is no place for RL business to prosper. I've worked with people who have tried, it just doesn't work. And though I can tell you why, that really would be a discussion for another blog and take days to explain, hell an entire college course can be designed around "Why business doesn't prosper in the Virtual World." I know books have been written to explain how it can, and the only money those people ever truly made from SL was selling those books irl. Ranma, I'm with you 100%. Make war not love does seem to be the message of today’s society. Such a contrast of my youth when it was the other way around and people were making love everywhere and with everyone. People laugh at the hippie movement of the late 60's early 70's but at least it was peaceful and caring of everyone. Blaze, I wanted to say there is a lot of what you write I also agree with. Your conclusions about the effects of advertising are very good. Cabbage, at times I want to shout "YES someone gets it" and sometimes I scratch my head. You seem to straddle the fence a lot. But that is one way of working out your own conclusions and I applaud you for it. Keep at it, you have a brain that works hard on finding truth and I know you will finally reach conclusions that are based on your exploration and not some propaganda riddled crap someone just expects you to parrot. So at this point we seem to be beating a dead horse. I’m getting off this merry-go-round if I can figure how to stop the notices form coming to me every time someone posts to this blog. I wish you all the best, well almost all.

couple things Ryuu. 1) napster got bought out by best buy and is not really profitable nor has it been since they tried to go legit. Just thought you should know... 2) according to the DMCA which SL claims to cherish like a bible. If their service is ever shut down THEY HAVE TO give us the ability to back up OUR intellectual property. The point about Napster has nothing to do with Best Buy or anything else related to that. However to set the record straight, Napster's brand and logos were acquired at bankruptcy auction by Roxio, Inc. which used them to rebrand the Pressplay music service as Napster 2.0. It was after this that, 9/2008 that Best Buy bought it for US $121 million. The point was, they claimed to be nothing more then the provider of a service. That service was to provide a secure peer to peer connection between members. They claimed they held no responsibility for the actual content transferred between members. However in March 2001 an injunction was issued against them to halt the trading of all copyrighted material. They chose to shut down completely to ensure compliance with this injunction. The lawsuit which established that Napster was civilly liable implies criminal liability as well. All was dropped in the $26 million settlement and additional $10 million advance for any future possible copyright infringment. All told, the company who claimed no liability in their Terms of Service had to caugh up $36 million to walk away from all the trouble. As for LL's liability for IP the TOS says this: 10.3 Linden Lab's liability to you is expressly limited, to the extent allowable under applicable law. IN NO EVENT SHALL LINDEN LAB OR ANY OF ITS DIRECTORS, OFFICERS, EMPLOYEES, SHAREHOLDERS, SUBSIDIARIES, AGENTS OR LICENSORS BE LIABLE TO YOU OR TO ANY THIRD PARTY FOR ANY SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL, INDIRECT, CONSEQUENTIAL, RELIANCE, PUNITIVE OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES OR DISGORGEMENT OR COMPARABLE EQUITABLE REMEDY, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION ANY DAMAGES FOR LOST DATA OR LOST PROFITS, ARISING (WHETHER IN CONTRACT, TORT, STRICT LIABILITY OR OTHERWISE) OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE SERVICE (INCLUDING ITS MODIFICATION OR TERMINATION), THE LINDEN SOFTWARE, THE WEBSITES, THE SERVERS, YOUR ACCOUNT (INCLUDING ITS TERMINATION OR SUSPENSION) OR THIS AGREEMENT, WHETHER OR NOT LINDEN LAB MAY HAVE BEEN ADVISED THAT ANY SUCH DAMAGES MIGHT OR COULD OCCUR AND NOTWITHSTANDING THE FAILURE OF ESSENTIAL PURPOSE OF ANY REMEDY. While the TOS doesn't not provide adequate protection to LL regarding IP violations and more to the point criminal activity by members, it does provide limitations to liability of loss of IP or any profits that may come from its presence on the service regardless of any intentional or unintentional interruption of service, temporary or permanent.

2. And this is probably the largest reason.......LIABILITY, LIABILITY, LIABILITY say it as many times as you want, I only need on word to refute that, NAPSTER As far as how it benefits anyone.....that is a subjective answer. My conjecture is the following: Benefits LL - decreases resources and staff needed for upkeep of teen grid ( they used staff to verify each account. -- a time consuming effort. Agreed. - Considerably lessens LL's liability Again, NAPSTER - if they move all the teens to MG they avoid complications , legal actions, refunds etc. to the teens for their lost inventory, lost sims etc. This is where the TOS does have legal teeth; they feel you up front that they are not responsible or obligated to refund any fees or expenses paid for and during use of SL. They lose nothing if they close the TG service. By using the SL service you agree to the terms of service which courts have upheld on this point with other services that have shut down. At this point no lawyer would ever take on such a case unless they were getting paid a guaranteed fee and not doing it on a contingency basis. Any such action would win dismissal at the preliminary hearing. All of your points about the benefits to the teens I totally agree with. And as someone pointed out, they represent a tiny fraction of the SL general population. The problem is, it only takes one instance of impropriety to cause trouble. One inattentive parent suddenly putting on the mantel of "righteous indignation" to start a legal and PR ruckus, one pedophile making a connection with a teen through SL, and it could throw positive benefits out the window. SL will regain its reputation as a haven for porn and perverts and this time, there will be children knowingly thrown into that mix. I do get that many of you teens are not likely to be a problem, but I honestly miss the SL I signed up for. Do you honestly believe it’s fair I should have to give up my SL experience so you can have yours when I was promised for years that this would NEVER happen? I'm sorry TG is being closed and that when it was running it was so poorly administered as I am hearing. This only goes to show that LL not only doesn't give a sh-t about its adult customers, but they didn't care about the teens either. If I was an educational or corporate customer I'd look at this very carefully before choosing to do business with LL. If they abuse their small individual customers with such uncaring poor service, how can you trust the big ticket customers will receive better?

Owning a sim is near impossible here without support from your parents and/or a part time job in real life. I hate to break it to you Blaze, but owning a region (you don't get to own an actual sim as that's really just the physical server) is very expensive at $1,000 set up fee and the $295/month LL tier. It's definitely out of my reach and more then I want to invest in anything virtual.

Responding the the first two words I wrote does not respond to my post There would be a thriving teen community if they werent restricted to only US teens limited to 40 sims where land prices and L values are the same as MG despite the economy being entirely diffrent. Where do you get the number 40 for the sims TG ran? The only info I get on this is that TG ran 100 regions. LL couldn't even fill those up, I'm sure had there been more demand in TG LL would have opened more regions.

The implication that someone who indulges in a little SL romance from time to time runs around with a strap on and propositions every single person that they meet is so off base as to be laughable. Either these people aren't on the MG much or they are so woefully undeveloped socially as to be worthy of pity. The vast majority of tier paying folk here aren't sexed up perverts. Since there are a lot fewer consequences to their actions in SL, they may be more likely to have a "hook up" than in RL but they aren't running around inappropriate areas with their stuff hanging out. If you think that is the norm then I suggest leaving the welcome areas and taking a walk through the real grid. There are a lot of people who have a sex bed in the residence that they pay rent or tier for but only use it with people that they are in a relationship with. As to why they do that in SL instead of RL, well you will just have to ask them. But you need to remember that they are the majority here and they built this world and they keep it running. Take away the reasons they have to pay all that tier and any illusions that the teens and the puritans can keep this place going on their own will be bitterly dashed. Cabbage, I'm confused, in the same paragraph you say that "The vast majority of tier paying folk here aren't sexed up perverts." and "But you need to remember that they are the majority here and they built this world and they keep it running." Which is it? For the purpose of this reply, I'm going to assume you are saying that SL is not the province of sex addicts and pervs. I beg to differ with you on that. You say you don't see them running around propositioning everyone. I tell you I see it every day to a level that even disgusts me, and I'm one of those "pervs". I can't spend 2 hours isl and not witness someone jackass pestering some woman for sex. And not just in the adult themed clubs and nude beaches, but everywhere. And the sex beds, let me tell you there is far more casual sex with strangers then you think there is. I admitted to being one of the "pervs", what I should mention is I'm one with extremely highly developed social skills and because of it, I get to have SL sex with pretty much every woman I meet and desire isl. I can stand in the middle of a PG sim doing absolutely nothing and within an hour I'll have some woman coming to my place for some hot SL sex. I am really unhappy that now I have to severely restrict my hunting grounds because I'll have no way of knowing if that hot avi belongs to an adult or a teen. (And let's not start the discussion about "is it really a woman". If you know anything about women and pay attention, you'll generally be able to tell.) Is SL only about sex, no, of course not and to be honest I have cut back form 4 or 5 encounters a day to maybe that many a week. But that is my choice andI resent LL taking my fantasy land and turning it into some kiddy park. Take this comment from Terrence Linden's post "We strongly believe that teens have as much to contribute to the Second Life community as their adult counterparts, and we do not want to restrict the flow of ideas and information between the two groups." WTF is SL supposed to be a bloody educational experience now? The "flow of ideas and information"? Please, there is no flow of anything I want with the children. "Our 16- and 17-year-old account holders will also be able to communicate fully with all other users on the Main Grid (unless they have been muted or otherwise restricted). This was an important decision for us, and one we think will make Second Life richer for all Residents." Really? They just assume that I will feel I have a "richer SecondLife" because I get to talk with children? They must because I am part of "all Residents". Let me assure you and Linden Labs, NO! I will not have a "richer SecondLife" from having teens on MG or the ability to even chat with them. I want NOTHING to do with them. All of you people who like to make the "Why don't they just get rid of SL sex?" or "the teens coming means that LL has decided to get rid of adult content" and all of the variations on this rather repressed sad little theme had better hope that it does not come down to an ultamatum style choice between will LL keep the teens or will they keep adult content. Well, not if you actually want the teens to stay around that is. Well, I do want them to get rid of the teens. I don't want them to stay around. By your own logic they are a financial liability to SL since they were not able to support Teen Grid and keep it going. So this means that you and I have to supplement the expense of having them in SL. Expect rate increases on tiers and premium memberships if this is the case. There are plenty of other worlds for the kids to go that are making some profit or breaking even. Why do they have to come ruin MY SecondLife experience? Where is the concern for MY SecondLife experience? I am a paying premium member, I pay tiers, I spend REAL money isl. I am the financial bread and butter of SecondLife. So how about a little concern for MY feelings and desires. Because I'm telling you now, ignore my needs and I will fulfill them somewhere else. And so will the majority of paying adult members in SL.

From the Maturity Ratings WIKI: General There are some landowners and Residents who desire a Second Life experience distinct from the activity that occurs in Moderate and Adult Regions. Region owners who wish to host this sort of Second Life experience can (but need not) designate their Regions as General. A Region may be designated General if it does not advertise or make available content or activity that's sexually explicit, violent or depicts nudity. Likewise, sexually-oriented objects such as "sex beds" or poseballs may not be located or sold in General regions. === There is something that truly bothers me about these kinds of "rules" in SL. They try not to sound like rules but discussions and always in favor of the minority. Let’s look at this. These always start with "There are some landowners and Residents who desire a Second Life experience distinct from..." Well what about the landowners and Residents who DO want to enjoy activities that include any or all of these things? LL simply dismisses their rights to enjoy "a Second Life experience" as they would like and put restrictions on their activity. If I am on a sim and someone moves next door to me and decides they don't like my activities, just like in the RL, they should get the hell out and go somewhere else. Similarly if I move in and start doing something the neighbors already there don't like, I should move. There are plenty of paces for people to find the kind of environments they desire without forcing anyone to give up anything for others. This is what SL is supposed to be, a place where EVERYONE can do ANYTHING they desire regardless of others and RL community standards. In my own personal opinion SL should go back to how it was 3 years ago. But accepting that they are trying to make it a place that appeals to a wider audience I'll accept some compromise. But that compromise should have been the creation of a G, not PG, but true G rated continent rather than an Adult continent. Then people who want to avoid all nudity, sexual content, and violence could spend their time on that continent and leave the rest of SL to everyone else to do as we chose to do. Of course to do that would make it imposable to eventually remove all Adult content and activity form SL and sell it to Disney. So what am I thinking?

Not sure what you are saying, but you spell bad. Why am I not surprised you would say that. And what's more, you didn't provide the quote to show just what you are referring to. So once again you make an unsubstantiated claim. I'll start my reply by assuring you that all of my spelling is correct. Just because you do not recognize a word doesn't make it misspelled, it makes you ignorant. But the real ignorance is, you don't do anything to learn what you don't know. An adult would look up the meanings of words they do not understand. A child would just complain and accuse the person of using those words as stupid. I am again coming to the conclusion that you are indeed a child and not an adult. So let me ask you, how do you know my spelling is bad? I'll tell you why I know my spelling is correct. I use spell check on everything I write. I double check for grammar as well. That is what an adult does. It seems that Kyle Steig may be correct, you may be simply uneducated. If you do indeed come from the region he identifies as being "one of the least educated populations in North America" I suppose that would explain it. I don't know. But I do know you have failed to impress me with any intelligence what-so-ever. It's sad really. I pity you. I almost wish it were true that you are actually a child lashing out when frustrated because you can’t come up with a better response. At least there would be hope you would gain wisdom and maturity as you grow older. If you are indeed an adult, well, clearly you are intellectually challenged. I said I would play this game with you all day if you wanted. I see now that I have an unfair advantage and my continuing to do so would only make me look like a bully for exerting my intellectual strength over someone weaker then myself. I will not do that. So this is the last time I will reply to anything you post going forward. In fact, I am going to ignore everything you write as the superfluous drivel of a weak minded loser. You quite honestly are no longer worth my time. As a parting gift, for your education I will do your homework for you. So "penchant for ignis fatuus" means a habit for creating deception or illusion. You make a habit of making comments about other people’s comments that are intended to appear like you know what you are talking about while trying to make the other person look like the "bad guy" by taking their comments out of context. What's worse, you don't even use quotes. A good spin doctor can take an actual quote, use only what they feel backs up the message they want to present and in so doing twist (spin) the persons words out of context to hint at another meaning then actually presented. You have a penchant for ignis fatuus! But you're not very good at it. So that's it Nany, we're done. Post all you want, it doesn’t matter to me anymore. I'm not even going to read it.

You don't know what will happen with Second Life let alone the 3D internet. You are just blowing stink. That's it? No rebuttal. No counter points. No real material to support your wild claims and vague predictions? That's because you don't really have anything do you? I may not be completely accurate in my predictions, but let's take a look in six months or a year and see which of us is closer to the mark. Say I am just blowing stink if you want, but you have done little to prove that. But proof isn't really your department is it? Damn Nany, you are one popular pus aren't you? A real equal opportunity offender. But Cabbage, though I think it's clear I have nothing but distain for miss prissy up there, her comment that you don't know what will happen is valid, you don't. Like the rest of us you are making an informed prediction that may or may not hold up. As for her comment about you blowing stink, well that's our Nany, never one to let a comment go by without attacking. I think I mentioned in an earlier reply but I think Nany is 12 or 13. Or did I say 13 or 14? Can't recall and can't be bothered to look. But clearly Nany demonstrates the demeanor of a prepubescent ignorant little prude who is parroting mommy without any understanding behind what mommy is complaining about. But then again, maybe mommy doesn't know what the hell she is talking about either.

It is important to hedge your allegations with words like "may" and "might be", or speak in general inference rather than directly attack someone's character the way you are attacking mine Attacking ones character is slander. Defamation of character, which it what you basically accused me of, is one definition of slander. But I wouldn't expect you to understand general law, you have shown to only be good at attacking others, even with you pretend to be logically making a statement, you do so with venom and assault on character as you do here. It annoys me when people who are so invested in sissyfight drama can't do it right. It takes careful reading to sissyfight. You have to quote your opponent's exact words. You can't make up quotes. You can intentionally distort their intended meaning to score your hit, but you have to use their exact words. Otherwise, you are an idiot. Though you don't specify me by name, because you are making a direct reply to my words you are inn fact implying you are talking about me. In that statement you accuse me of "sissyfight", and being an idiot. That my petty little player, that is attacking my character. You can deny it all you want, but you are. And btw, you don't have to use exact quotes, it is the harm caused to the individuals character that counts for slander, but since you want exact quotes here. In a direct reply to Jabali Valiant you wrote: I understand you may not believe selling or using pictures of a child's genitals as erotic entertainment is "bad." I understand you may believe prostitution is welcome in every venue and business as long as there are no children present. I disagree that most adults agree with those views. For the record you chose to attack Jabali without even offering his words for reference. That was pretty cowardly of you. I guess if people could read his words in context you they would see you have no argument and was in fact slandering him by twisting his words to mean something that would defame his character. So for the sake of equal time, what Jabali said was: Everybody does not see porn as bad. People in this thread are talking about lawsuits regarding the underaged being exposed to adult content, not because it is BAD but because they are not of legal age to view it. Again, you are required by law to keep it away from children because it is for adults, not because it is bad. You are required by law to keep a handgun (if you decide to register to bear one) locked up in a safe away from children too, does that fall under your BAD label as well since its kept away from children?? If you want to continue your sissyfight, by all means go ahead. I'll be happy to play this game with you all day and all night if you chose to continue it. I've got nothing but time on my hands and a vast resource of knowledge from which to draw. Just do me one favor, have the balls to quote the full text of what you are replying to. Stop hiding behind penchant for ignis fatuus.

Read the TOS......Land owners are responsible for the content on their land. Again under this situation LL will take the position that LL is not liable as they are only selling a service to the land owners who are ultimately responsible or liable for any content that may not be age appropriate. Actually, because LL owns the actual hardware on which the content is electronically stored, they are libel. And even if they did not have the content on their servers, they would still be libel because they provide and control the mechanism by which the content is delivered. Napster claimed that because they did not have servers and did not actually share copyrighted content they were not libel for copyright violation. However as we all know they lost that battle. It was determined that because they provided the service by which copyright may be violated, they were responsible for the traffic on their service. Likewise, if adult content is delivered to a minor through their use of the SL platform, LL who owns SL will be held liable for that exposure. And they do not even have the argument that they do not hold the content on their own equipment, because they do hold it. Their servers store all content. Their servers deliver all content. Even IM's are stored and then forwarded. So forget the TOS in this case, LL is trying to pass blame when in the end, legally, it is they who will be held accountable.

Sighs...Slander indeed...I can just see the real life court case... "Mr Ryuu Radek Versus Miss Nany Kayo"...Really??? Grow up, I am sure they don't call you "Ryuu Radek" at the office or anywhere except in SL...sheesh, are we here to fight each other or to fight Linden Labs to regain our rights as adults(even though some adults seem to conduct themselves as though they were kids)! I"m not sure what you are talking about. First off, Slander IS a violation of the TOS and secondly you haven't read the thread or you would see that I was telling Nany that she slandered another yet she turned around and accused me of slander. I really think before you comment you should read the entire history of the matter you are speaking about. As for fighting LL, you have to be joking. First off, they are not even looking at any of what is writen here, they honestly don't care. The only reason we are here is to fight amongst ours selves to determin how we will deel with the upcoming situation in light that LL doesn't care about us. There is no fight to regain our rights because we have no rights to begin with. SL is a service offered by a private company. They have all the rights and they may creat any rules they want and may equally revise those rules at will and all they have to do is post the changes. By continuing to access the service (SL) we implicitly agree to the new terms of service.

You need to watch the personal attacks, too. It is important to hedge your allegations with words like "may" and "might be", or speak in general inference rather than directly attack someone's character the way you are attacking mine. You are violating the forum guidelines. Excuse me! But you are the one who attacked anothers character, not me. BTW I reported you, You committed slander and that is a crime. And don't you even presume to be qualified to tell me how to speak, you need the lessons. So piss off!

The population of Second Life is changing to reflect more of the general public. If it is going to be too difficult for you to conduct yourself in a manner that is acceptable to the general public, you may need to find someplace that has a different kind of population. That's life. We did, it's called SecondLife.

I understand you may not believe selling or using pictures of a child's genitals as erotic entertainment is "bad." I understand you may believe prostitution is welcome in every venue and business as long as there are no children present. I disagree that most adults agree with those views. OMFG!!!!! Nany! Are you friggen serious? Where the HELL did you get that from because it's not from this thread! You are not ignorant; you are a sick sick individual. You twist and manipulate peoples words like a Right Wing spin doctor. Only YOU would turn a valid argument into an accusation of vial criminal intent. You disgust me in a way that makes me think maybe I should report you. There is no place for such a venomous attack on someone’s character. If you disagree with someone then make a valid logical argument, not this fallacy ridden nonsense you spit out your ass like some 5 year old whining about having to go to bed. In fact, I am beginning to question your age, you have been making such ludicrous comments this entire discussion. Clearly you are not mature enough to hold an adult conversation. So tell me, how old are you, 13? 14? I encourage everyone to comment on this. I honestly feel that she has exceeded the bounds of decency here and needs to be clearly told this by all sensible people regardless of which side of this discussion you are on.

Oh and you might want to go back to dialup. The Porn Industry funded most of the R and D that went into developing these technologies for computers. (Yes its true) . Umm Dark Zebendein. No, this is not true. I worked with the people who invented and perfected the cable modem, I worked in the engineering department testing these designs and I can assure you, we were not funded by pornographers. It was developed in a joint effort between Digital Equipment Corp and Applitek, both of Massachusetts. I deeply resent this false accusation and hope you will be responsible enough to retract this statement and apologize. While I have no problems with the porn industry and do agree they have lead the way in implementing advanced features of the web; it cannot be said they directly funded this development. I request you please refrain from making such accusations again.

Actually in some areas a 16 year old is not a kiddie. Even in some US states the age of consent is 16. In my state it's 17. 16 year olds aren't so bad, and anyone younger than that are restricted to special sims. Age of consent does not apply here. Age of consent only applies to the actual act of physical sexual contact. This is a graphical environment, not a physical one. The exchange of sexual content to a minor (under 18) is a criminal offense. Sending sexually graphic text through an IM is included. Pixel sex is included. Hand drawn sex is included. Get the idea? Earlier someone asked the question "How does one adjudicate unwitting sex with a minor who looks like a balrog and an adult who looks like a bunny?" Well let me tell you, a prosecutor who is under the gun of reelection and motivated to prosecute to conviction will indeed find a way to bring this to trial and possibly win. To them there is no innocence. You did it, you're guilty, end of story. Hell if they will send people to death row to protect their record and image rather then admit they were wrong, what makes you think they will not push to send your butt to jail when you are in deed truly guilty. So don't go playing with some 16 year old in Alabama on SL because the age of consent in her state is 16, you will still go to jail for child pornography.

I'm glad you posted. I totally relate to what you said. As for the guy who was with the 15 year old, at least he found out before he camed with her. Even my shit turned white when I learned the truth just over 2 years after our last encounter. It's like when the porn industry learned Tracy Lords was underage and were obliged by law to remove hundreds of thousands of her videotapes, films and magazines from store shelves to avoid the risk of prosecution for trafficking in child pornography at a cost to them of hundreds of thousands of dollars. I started a new policy after that; no one that I can't feel comfortable is over 25. And the only way to do this in a virtual world is to engage in conversation and look for understanding of, and mature opinions about, things that a minor just wouldn't have been around for or wouldn't have shown interest in. It's not sure fire, but if someone is laughing with me about a random TV commercial or music video from the early 80"s, I'm pretty confident they were old enough to have seen and form an opinion about it. I guess I can move that bar to the early 90's now though huh. I'm just worried that because it will be even easier for teens to do this going forward LL will have to ban all adult content and activity. It's been determined in courts that even a graphic representation of a child having sex is child pornography. If an avi is a graphic representation of ourselves, would not the act of pixel sex with someone who turns out to be underage also be considered kiddy porn? That's an area I want to stay clear the hell away form and I'm sure so does LL. So the only way to be sure to do that, no more sl sex. mmmm I'm thinking it wouldn't be too hard to write code that makes it impossible for two avis to be within 1 meter of each other. Add a requirement that all skins have underwear and you remove all visual components of porn. Shhh let's not tell LL about this.

I want to start by saying that I 100% agree with YummE Merlin's comments. This is no place for children, we didn't come to SL to live among children we came here to live a "SECOND LIFE". One of our choosing and free of the constraints of the rl (First Life). I can't sit on my RL deck naked because there are children who run and play in the area and might become exposed to me, and since the laws of the RL say that such exposure, even though unintentional is a crime punishable by prosecution and will result in having to register as a "sex offender" for the rest of your life, SL is the only place I can walk around naked if I so choose. SL is a fantasy world and to bring children into it removes the fantasy I chose to have. I am a paying customer, but I assure you, I will NOT renew my paid membership come January 27, 2011. I see no reason to pay for a vertual Real Life. Boaz Sands is correct on many of the things he says too. And the rest is opinion and he is entitled to them. When he says children have been sneaking in he is very dead on, they have, and posing as adults working hard to maintain that disguise very hard. I encountered several, 2 that had me fooled, one completely and one that after hitting her with a lot of questions that were raised after something I learned while on a RL phone call with her. She managed to convince me and several others that she was indeed 19. And she even looked 19, I've seen her on cam and when she confessed the charade the day after her real 18th birthday I was blown away. So yes, there is a problem that no one with anything short to actually holding State or Federal issued picture ID in hand can do to completely and confidently ensure that people are indeed the age they say they are. But that is not my fear, it is the people who will approach the kids in this new SL. And more so what the kids will manage to encounter on their own. Now more kids will have a taste of what is here and those who were not likely to sneak into the main GRID before will not see it as so big a leap to lie about their age once they are already on the GRID. As for Nany Kayo/s comment, no, LL will not be OK. Not if LL was planning on living from SL profits. However they are not planning this. As I've said many times SL was nothing more then a testing environment for LL to develop their commercial virtual world software for corporate and educational clients. They would develop new features and see how it holds up in the fully operational environment of SL. Now they are marketing this software and many of the founders and principal players of LL are moving on to other ventures and SL is no longer needed. So what do you do? Shut it down? It's bigger than they expected and there is over US$26.2 BILLION in lindens let alone all the commerce that takes place. Though the TOS says they have the right to terminate any account for any reason and are not responsible for any assets lost to the account holder as a consequence, let’s see how well that holds up in a class action suit they would face costing them hundreds of thousands of dollars to defend. So the only option is to sell it. But who wants a "porn infested" property regardless how much revenue it generates. It would be a PR disaster to any who would even think of buying it. So what to do? Can't close it, can't sell it as it is. Oh I know, lets clean it up. We'll herd all the adult content into specific areas first to salvage as much of the "world" as we can. Then we can cut expenses by eliminating the second GRID (teen GRID) and migrate the children into this now sanitized environment. Once the kids are in, we well be in a better position to proclaim that available safeguards just aren't enough to protect the children from the adult content that remains and so the only option is to ban it completely. Ratings will be done away with and anyone who doesn't conform to a PG/G environment will be booted, their sims terminated and content purged from the system. There now SL is a clean kid safe environment, not the sleazy place so many had heard about before. With tens of thousands of subscribers it is now an attractive asset to buy. Microsoft or Google can openly look at it as a way to expand their empires and it will not hurt their image. Problem solved. Too bad whoever buys it will see 50% of their customers exodus SL in the first year of operation taking as much of their money out of it as possible making it no longer a profit center but a loss leader. Already people are scaling back as LL reported a 3.7% decrease from Q2 to Q3 and 11% over the year. And this is not the average users who are pulling out; they report that it is the biggest users, those who average over 300 hours a month that are leaving. But hell, maybe that's all they are interested in anyway, pull new people in, sell them other goods and services, then let them leave. Sure, we can do nothing to stop this now. The decision has indeed been made and no one at LL gives a rats ass what we, the paying customers want. So what's the point of posting anything more here? The point is, we feel like we've done something to be heard regardless how futile. We refuse to go quietly into that good night. And when we are on the OpenLife or BlueMoon GRIDS in a year and SL is on the fast track to obscurity, we will look back and choose to only remember the good times we had there. Adieu SL, I knew you well, but your time has passed and you will be remembered fondly.

Why would LL tattoo underwear on default avatars if they expected and intended Second Life to be a porn site? Ug, you so don't get it. LL only STARTED doing that with the "clean up" of SL. this is new. And NO, LL does NOT want porn on SL at all! But it's here and they know if they kill it immeadately, hald of everyone will just go. SL without sex is boring and totally not worth it for the majority of people who came here.Get it?!

I am both intrigued yet disappointed how the adults here are handling the conversion here on SL. Why? When have you ever seen any conversation in any setting that did not have extremist end of the world comments that border on the harsh condemning side? Let people vent, it's not like they are going to act on anything that is said here, it's just a place to release tension and anxiety. On many similar social-client chats teens, young adults, and adults alike are able to converse in a G-rated setting. Adult materials is reserved for adults who can verify their age, and seperated from the main-areas. Very true, but those sites were specifically set up form the beginning for a mixed range of users and people all understood that going in. SL was not established with any such expectation and the users who have been in it for years all had certain expectations. Perhaps many of you, old and new, have forgotten that SL can change their TOS at any time.I would suggest SL actually put clothes, yes, pixelated garment underneath the user's current outfit. No more nudie. Nude-skins would have to be sold seperately in a Adult-rated stores. That kicks the "indecent" exposure to any intentional or unintentional user. This has been done already, actually since early in the year if not before that. I had a friend join SL last May and her avi had underwear as part of the skin. First thing we did was get her new skin. My question remains, why did adults join SL in the first place? Was it simply for the pixel-porno part? Was that how SL started off in the begining? You're kidding me right? You have to ask this? YES of course that is EXACTLY why most adults joined SL. They heard about the sex and wanted to check it out. Do you know how many bored lonely housewives find release in SL, how many frustrated lonely men find the chance to life the dreams they never realize irl? I'm pretty lucky, I have a very active life in both worlds, but for many, SL is all they have. And I do know what I'm talking about, as I said, I have a pretty active life isl. I would suggest that developer material is passed through a screening in these sand-box areas before being submitted/built on SL. This screener can be done by the users on SL who can judge what is appropriate and non-appropriate material for the general public by a percentage. Unappropriate material can be marked/flaged for LL to check upon. X amount of false flagging/marking can earn consequences such as being unable to vote for X amount of days. 2-3 offense of fake voting=voting rights taken away. It's one way that another social client chat uses to keep R-rated material out of the general public. And has worked wonderfully on there. Development here is done by people who want to create; they do so at their own pleasure and for their own reasons. Many do it to make L's, some just for fun. Regardless, no one should judge the "appropriateness" of someone’s work. If the aim is to sell that work, then the market place will decide if it's worthy of being available isl. And if something is made available to a general population that should be reserved for an adult only population, then there is a way to flag it. On the SLMarket place there is a button, and isl, you can file an abuse report. If this is not enough, then they should just shut the whole bloody thing down and let the children play on Disney’s virtual world Club Penguin.

My point is, that we still do have that. On the myriad of mature and adult sims available as well as our own homes if we are fortunate enough to have them. There is nothing in this shift that changes the "expected bahaviors" found in a certain sim. The only thing that does change is that if you are the type that will accept random friendings from people you haven't even seen or engage in mature or adult behaviors in IM with people whome you are not at least moderately aquainted with, you may wish to re-think those particular actions. I think you are missing something very important to this discussion. At least a simple majority of people isl are drawn here by the potential to do something that they can never do irl, meet a total stranger and have sex with them without having to know anything about them. I know from my travels over the 3+ years I've been isl that with only a modest amount of pleasantry, a guy can l ways manage to find someone to have SL sex with. For the women, they get to live out fantasy they may not even dare even speak aloud irl. And let's face it, virtual sex is the safest sex there is so why not?

Seems as always the lindens want it all (money) that is and will bury thier heads in the sand about the problems and user complaints. This is going to happen and there is nothing we can do about it, get over it. now thats not to say you cant protect your self from legal ramifications, ie. making sure you dont do stupid stuff near general sims. and keep a clean profile. Hunter you are right about all of this. The Lindens 1. don't care about anything regarding SL other then money, and the fact it is also a testing ground for the continued development of their commercially available VR offerings, and 2. the users of SL (residents? pah!) don't count for anything to them. LL never did and never will give a rats ass about the people who use SL. The ultimate goal has always been to market virtual world environments as an alternative to RL on site meetings, conferences, and seminars. That is where they see their future and SL was simply a way to work out the kinks and bugs. Once they no longer feel they need it, it's going on the auction block to any who would wish to buy it. This "cleaning up" of SL is simply something they’re doing to make it more marketable to the conservative potential buyers. We can complain all we want, but until we are ready to back up our words by actually walking away, nothing will happen.