Marcus Ansia

If, hypothetically, this was an estate ban and I had originated from another region would I not then have been ejected immediately I entered the region in question? I had been there for at least 25 to 30 mins or more, looking around from table to table, buying one item, then buying another, then finally a third item. I had just then taken this 3rd purchase into my inventory, because at most Yard Sales you are buying the original item which is on display and set for sale, so you buy it and then you own it, so you have to take it into your inventory, when I suddenly found myself back at my home location, but with no message or indication as to why.

As I have previously explained, I don't have Music, Media or Voice activated when I go to other sims. Not specifically because of any security issues, but simply because I don't want to hear the music or see/hear the media that is playing there. I personally find it annoying and distracting. Therefore, I can categorically state that I DID NOT have any of the above activated anytime I entered that particular region in the past and as such, I have not given my consent to any data being taken from me in order for external data to be sent to me i.e. music or video. And again, if LL have made code changes in order for my IP Address to be used to block any suspected griefing actions by me then I have no issues with this. But, I would still like to know why I was banned in the first place? An answer which has never been forthcoming.

If this is a LL implemented code change, then I have no problem whatsoever with them obtaining any information through the use of IP Tracking. I have already provided them with my full Name, Address and email whne I signed up to using SL. If, on the other hand, it is a 3rd party sim owner having the same ability to track and obtain personal information about me, such as my real world location from my IP Address, then that is something I do have an issue with. I have previously explained at the very beginning of thispost, how the person in question wanted me to go to his website and then enter my email address to submit a ticket on this case? So, if he had (and I say if) my IP Address and potentially my location, he also then wanted my email address too?

Could it be possible there is another loophole that has been discovered and now needs to be closed?

You say you know how to make IP Trackers? May I ask why you would want to?

I've often found that just because I don't know how something works, or I am unable to make something myself, it doesn't necessarily mean that someone else doesn't know and can't make it. So, Linden Labs, do you know how this was/is being done and is it something 'YOU' have implemented or not? I wonder if they will answer???

Seems to be not?.... But not conclusive either way! Which still means it's possible that an IP Address Tracker was being used by the owner and not perhaps a LL implemented code change. It would be very useful if an 'official' LL representative could confirm or deny if they have made such a change in the code.

This initial incident took place 4 weeks ago. Attempts were then made over a period of a few days in the first week only, depending on my daughters availablity, because unlike many others, I don't see fit to create an alternative account. No recent attempts to teleport there by myself or my daughter have since been made because neither of us have the slightest interest in returning to that location. That being said, each time we had tried (unsuccessfully) in that first week we each saw or screens go the staturory black as though a teleport was in progress, a boxed message then appeared in the center of our screens, black background with white text. Mine said ... 'You are banned from entering this region'. Hers said.... 'You do not have access to this location'. There were no progress bars, because each time it happened vitually instantaneously. Yesterday, my daughter was able to come to my home, so I asked her to again attempt to tp there. She was able to with no problem. I then attempted to teleport there and this time I arrived...... No Messages. I can only now assume that whatever device, code, script etc was being used at the time, has either now been changed or withdrawn. How exactly it was coded or scripted I really have no interest in. What did interest me was why I had been banned (which I still have no explanation or apology for) in the first place and the fact that my IP Address MUST have been utilised in the process for my daughter to also have been prevented from entering the region immediately after my own attempts after I changed my IP Address. If, you can prove to me that IP Addresses were not being used to be able to do this then all well and good, but if not and it is still the only possible explanation, wether it be a scripted device the owner was using, or some code change LL has made (which I am still not convinced of), then I believe that each person has the right to know this so we all have the informed choice as to wether we then wish to enter a specific region, or not.

You may want to use that light yourself and shine it on my initial post which explained fully exactly what happened, 4th paragraph, last sentence..... Surprise surprise, when she tried to teleport to (SITE NAME WITHELD TO CONFORM TO PRIVACY LAWS), she received a message saying she didn't have access to that location. Not banned, just no access. My daughter gets a pop up message saying.... 'You do not have access to this location'. That's it, nothing more.

If it's a standard SL code and I'm on an Estate ban, then why is it my daughter gets blocked immediately after I attempt to tp there, but if I change my IP Address and she then attempts to tp there first, she can? So her avatar name is not being blocked, it can't be?

I really don't think LL have implimented a facility to enable IP Address banning. It makes no sense as I've already proved. It's only a matter of rebooting your Router/Modem to obtain a new IP Address. So if you are a griefer, you simply create another avatar and change IP Addresses before using it.

All I can relay to you is the sequence of events as they happened. I'm no scripter, so I have no idea how its being done. But, for a different avatar to be told they do not have access to a region, immediately after I have attempted to tp there and the other avatar is logged in from my RL address and using the same IP Address as myself... you tell me how it can possibly be happening, if my IP Address is not somehow being utilised in this equation?

I don't get booted, I never arrive to get booted, I get a message telling me I am banned from this region. My daughter, when she is unable to tp there gets a message saying she does not have access to this region. She never gets a 'you are banned' message, just a 'you don't have access to this region' message.

I really had tried all possible permutaions. I disabled Music, Media and Voice before attempting to tp again (after changing my IP Address of course, but I still received the ... 'You are banned from this region' message and then subsequent attempts my my daughter from my RL home also stopped her going there, but her message simply stated she did not have access to this region. If I then changed my IP Address and my daughter then made the first attempt to tp to the region, she got the usualy messages... 'connecting to region'... then 'arriving'... and she enters the region with no problems. again, I must stipulate, that I really couldn't care less if I can go there or not. What does rile me though, is the unjust accusations that have obviously been made against me and then the owner, not even bothering to make an attempt to look into it and explain why. Therefore I have to assume he wants to hide something from being publicly found out. I have learnt one thing in recent days though. Someone I know, also knows the region owner, not as a friend, but has had dealing with him in the past and knows for a fact that apparently he is quite an accomplished scriptor. Make of that what you will.......!

What you have described as having happened to you is exactly the same series of events that I have encountered.

You seem to be under the assumption that my avatar has to physically be rezzed on a region before I am then detected and banned, but I'm sure this is not the case. Moving from region to region is little different than moving a file from one hard drive to another. Usually it happens really quickly with files, but with an avatar it takes a lot longer, but your code is being sent from the region you are leaving to the region you are attempting to enter. If that code and the IP is then being intercepted (which it must be) prior to your avatar making a full physical appearance on that sim, then there is more than enough time for you to be blocked and prevented from entering, so you get told you can't. Remember all this can happen in a split second for a computer processor.

I (Marcus Ansia) do permanently see the 'you are banned message evry time I have tried to tp to that sim in the past. Even after directly changing my IP Address, I still get the same message and I am unable to tp to the sim..... every time. If I change my IP Address and then someone else using my same IP Address first tries before I do, they are allowed to enter the sim. If I try, and then I'm told I'm banned, the next person using my IP Address is also prevented from entering the sim, but they get a different message telling them they have no access to that region. If I try to enter the sim, I can't. If I then immediately change my IP Address and someone else tries from the same IP, they can and also they then immediately checked the LL Parcel Ban list and I was not on it. This was all within a period of a few mins.

Yes you are correct, I (Marcus Ansia) am unable to teleport to the sim, even if I change my IP Address. Although, I have not even attempted to do so for some time now and have no intention of doing so even if the ban was lifted. As I've previously explained, anyone else using my IP Address is able to teleport to the sim, unless I then attempt to do so. This results in me then once again recieving the 'you are banned from this region' message and any subsequent attempts by anyone else is also then blocked. This can only be because each attempt I make is then being noted and my then current IP Address is being recorded and anyone using that same IP Address is being blocked. What other possible reason can there be for this sequence of events?

And as for LL being involved with what you describe as 'quietly' changing how region bans work to include an IP ban. I would very much doubt such an occurance took place, because you then run the risk of banning anyone using that same IP Address which may well be a public place or a college or University for example. IP Address banning is as ludicrous now as it was when RedZone was in force. It's inherently flawed because it's whole concept is based on the assumption that anyone using the same IP Address as the original banned person must be one of his/her alts.

If you have read this post in it's entirety, and fully understood the sequence of events, it really is quite obvious what took place. For whatever reason, I was banned and am now unable to teleport back to that sim. I am not on the parcel ban list (that has been confirmed by more than one person). After that initial event took place, anyone trying to teleport to that sim was not allowed to. I then changed my IP Address. Anyone (except myself) was then able to teleport to that sim, until I then made another attempt to do so. After that, anyone attempting to teleport to that sim from my IP Address (which had been changed) was then unable to. Each time I changed my IP Address and then attempted to teleport there, it resulted in anyone else also from my same IP Address being blocked. therefore the only possible conclusion is the sim owner is using software that records an IP Address of anyone that has been placed on a specific list.

This subject can be debated and go round and around indefinitely, because at the end of the day, each of us is entitled to our own opinion. For me the bottom line is I went to a sim to shop. I was then penalised, for doing nothing wrong except for buying some items. I was ejected and banned. I asked the owner for an explanation, but still have not been given one. Now, if this were to happen to anyone of us in RL, what would you do? You'd obviously never go back to that shop again and give them your money, but also, would you keep the incident to yourself, or would you tell your family and friends about what happened and how badly you had been treated? My point in all this is in RL, it most probably would never even have got that far. Because no self respecting company would want to allienate its customers and risk bad publicity, but here in the virtual world, it seems that many traders really couldn't care less because they think there are plenty more residents willing to hand over their money to them. Until people start to stand up for themselves and demand to be treated with more integrity and respect, then things won't change. It didn't need to go this far. Al the trader needed to do was to look into the incident and then simply apologise and it would have been the end of the matter. But, like most people who have something to hide, they cower away trying to sweep things under the carpet, hoping it will all simply be forgotten and they can continue to use their devices unchallenged.

It would be impossible for LL to use IP Addresses to ban a griefer from SL. I'm sure many are clever enough to not use their personal IP Addresses in the first place.

My odd isn't it remark, was simply a facetious comment to emphasise the fact that money is of more importance (be it the real world or a virtual one) than morality.

Odd isn't it how a USA based company can insist on EU Country residents having to pay EU VAT, but will not provide the same level of protection those EU residents would expect to get and have access to in an EU country. All it really needs is a disclosure clause to be included in LL Terms of Service. If you are going to record and capture peoples IP Address information when they enter your parcel or sim/s, then each person should have the right to know that and then be able to make an informed decision if they wish you provide that information. If not, then you don't go to that location.

It never ceases to amaze me how some people will just say.... well this is how it works, therefore we have to accept it. Actually no, we don't have to accept it. Obviously for two (or more) electronic devices (the emphasise being on the devices) to be able to communicate a connection has to be established. Does it mean the person using one of those devices then has the moral right to use some additional software to be able to 'hack' into the data to then capture the Real World location of the device his/her device is then communicating with. Currently it is only illegal if you then pass that information on to someone else, but perhaps it should be illegal to even be able to capture and retain that information in the first place! Just because something currently works in a certain way, doesn't mean it should be allowed to continue. If you make a phone call a connection has to be established so you and the person on the other end can then speak to each other, but does that give the other person the right (unless you have previously agreed) to then record and hack into that data stream in order to find out exactly where you were when you made that phone call to them? And I'm taking about the average person, not someone connected with a law enforcement agency, who has obtained a warrant/court order to be able to utilise such information for lawful purposes. Rules, regulation and laws are things that have been created my human beings in order to establish what is deemed to be right and wrong. But how often are these rules, regulations and laws changed because it's then realised they themselves are not right and are allowing peoples basic human rights to privacy to be breached and in worse case scenarios, putting people at risk without them even being aware of what is happening. I'm sure there are those who in their ignorance are oblivious to how many things do work, but there are also those who are not. Yet some of those (who are more knowledgeable) are still happy to sit back and do nothing... why? because that's just how it is, or that's how it works, is the excuse often given. But some, do have the balls to stand up and say what they believe to be right and wrong.