[Bringing Teens to Second Life’s Main Grid]

It's a half and half sort of thing.

Recently the TOS changed allowing new members, age 16 or 17, to sign up as teens with all of the promised restrictions. Currently, the merge is being pushed back a few weeks as Terrence is looking over a few things about it so he feels comfortable with it, along with making some additions (there's going to be 4 teen only regions added called bonobos islands 1-4, yes I know, VERY poor choice of name lol)

We're getting the official date next week, most likely in a blog post.

There were also a few cases of teens filing tickets saying they were 16 and wished to be transferred. In a few hours, they were put on the main grid as teens.

[Bringing Teens to Second Life’s Main Grid]

Hehe, well you can always tell your friend that Second Life is used differently by everyone. For some, it's a game, for some, it's a business tool and for some, it's a teaching aid. There really is no set definition for Second Life other than that it's a multi-purpose virtual world.

[Bringing Teens to Second Life’s Main Grid]

It's a bit of a shame that the word "sex" has been attributed to things such as pornography, bondage, sadism or anything else on that long list. Can intimacy with your life partner really be deemed inappropriate, even if it is in a virtual world?

I also agree with you about war.

One of the main causes for these perceptions is the image created for them in the media. I've seen several ads for movies that depict the female character as some provocatively dressed supermodel who somehow came into life with a perfect body. Her male partner usually fits into some of the same categories. Normally, these ads are 50% composed of scenes or messages of intimacy and sexuality. The idea of "animal sex" has been glamourized so much in society that it can hardly be seen as celebrating a relationship between two people. War has been glamourized a lot as well. Advertizements for films and videogames of soldiers entering into combat and apparently coming out as heroes. The whole hard-boiled life is meant to seem as if you always manage to survive through sprays of gunfire and come out on top as a hero.

[Bringing Teens to Second Life’s Main Grid]

If only things were that simple. The issue here is teenage intercourse is not illegal. Intercourse between a teen and adult however, is. Not to mention sex beds and prim genitals are not allowed on the teen grid to begin with. The content is never removed because no one takes any action against it. I have never seen anyone reporting every single Maroon Bed lying around in the sandboxes.

[Bringing Teens to Second Life’s Main Grid]

BLAZE.

I checked 2 days ago and if i turn my draw distance up enough I can see into adult sims on a non age verified account.  .. either a or b will happen ... a) that will be abused and we'll all lose second life... or b) landowners will be held responsible for what happens on their land and you will see an exodus to another grid. It was and still is a terrible idea to bring you guys here because LL did not do NEAR ENOUGH in my opinion to protect you or us and dont get me into the copyright violations that I know you guys will commit by copybotting.

1) Yeah the draw distance is definitely an issue. I figured LL would do the smart thing and make those areas invisible to us, but again I guess that was too much to ask. According to a friend of mine who made a teen MG account, apparently a lot of mature content on the marketplace is still visible buyable for teens, even while logged in.

2) No doubt there will be a bit of friction with copybotting. Some peopl just don't know when enough is enough. Just try not to generalize. We do have some fairly serious teen content creators over here.

[Bringing Teens to Second Life’s Main Grid]

There are VERY FEW PG sims that do not share at least ONE border with a Mature sim, or have a mature sim less than one sim away. Adjust your draw distance, and you can see 2 sims away. Plenty of ADULT content on mature land. Just look around. 

I double checked just now. I was standing in a PG sim and could see everything going on in the neighboring mature sims and beyond that too.

[Bringing Teens to Second Life’s Main Grid]

Today's TOS update has opened the door to the teens regardless of all of the childish tantrums being thrown by the "adults".  I am sure the Lindens reading this blog had some lulz.

I can understand why the merge is happening. The map is filled with empty sims that no one is buying and it makes sense to close up the smaller grid and fill up the empty spaces on the larger grid.

I do not understand why there is so much panic and hysteria over the teens coming to the main grid. Keep the sex out of the PG sims and in the adult parcels like the TOS requires you to do. Then there is nothing to worry about.

I don't really understand the notion that teens logging on to second life will cause a dark cloud of griefing to spoil the all adult eutopia. IMHO, those who see teens 2 years shy of adulthood as immature griefers really need to log out of their virtual fantasy and take a better look at the real world around them.

The main issue here, which is a concern for all is the sex content. Yes people will keep sex content out of PG regions, but apparently, since PG regions border mature regions, teens can see right into it. This of course, I'm not sure of. I'll log into the teen account I made today and test the theory. Do you know of any PG regions that directly border mature or adult regions? For all we know, Linden Labs made those areas invisible to teens.

[Bringing Teens to Second Life’s Main Grid]

Well that's good to hear. It's one of the reasons why I am looking forward to having my account transferred, not to mention that we will be open to a wider set of buyers and, if any at all, stolen copies of our stuff may not spread as fast or as far.

[Bringing Teens to Second Life’s Main Grid]

Oh, and I meant to ask.  You mentioned that the economy on the TG was different from the MG.  How so?

 

The difference between the main grid economy and teen grid economy is that the teen grid economy doesn't exist. Owning a sim is near impossible here without support from your parents and/or a part time job in real life. You have mass copybotting among other things to thank for that.

[Bringing Teens to Second Life’s Main Grid]

Its sad to see such a large number of ignorant, clueless people on here absolutely losing their mind over this.

Didn't you hear? Us “kiddies” are the black plague. We will flood in and infest your sims with pixel sex, copybotting spam and loud mics. You will either die or live in disney land forever HAR HAR HAR!

Joking of course. I agree with certain resident's concerns, but the whole "black plague" notion is pretty ridiculous and unnecessary.

[Bringing Teens to Second Life’s Main Grid]

Responding the the first two words I wrote does not respond to my post

 

I'm pointing out the fact that teens on the main grid before and teens on the main grid today are under 2 different set of rules.

[Bringing Teens to Second Life’s Main Grid]

Multiple Reasons. Teens are on the MG no matter what, seperating them doesnt change much.

Weren't teens on accessing the MG before violating the TOS? Now they aren't.

[Bringing Teens to Second Life’s Main Grid]

Well, it looks like it's happened. I looked over the new TOS today when I logged in and noticed the section regarding those of age 16 and 17. As an experiment, I made a new account (and was surprised I didnt need a cellphone for verification) I logged in and found myself in the main grid welcome island. I was able to TP to any region that is PG and talk with the local adult residents. It looks like it's finally happened. Now, we have to wait for our teen grid accounts to transfer.

For those adults worried about their SL experiences being ruined, I will try my best to stay out of your virtual hair.

[Bringing Teens to Second Life’s Main Grid]

I would propose "grandfathering" violent content on the teen owned sims that are being migrated over or perhaps adding yet another darn rating to the mix (General, violence acceptable or PG-13 or whatever) to allow for graphic violence without boobies.

I say Linden Labs just modify their Community Standards so that General regions allow violence but not graphic violence. I mean, if violence is not allowed on a G area, does that mean that we can't use slap gestures? We can't bonk someone on the head with a huge inflatable hammer? We were taught from kindergarten that pushing someone is wrong. Should that really have to apply here? Yes wargaming is violent, but it's not graphic as far as I know. When you get shot here, your avatar just disappears and gets TPed back to the spawn point or home location. There's no giant gore explosion or some huge blood tornado with limp, broken bodies being torn apart, limb from limb, and tossed everywhere, it's just one click and you vanish.

[Bringing Teens to Second Life’s Main Grid]

Well then my apologies for this small misunderstanding.

I suppose this may be another reason why the creation of fake adult accounts will increase.

[Bringing Teens to Second Life’s Main Grid]

Another thing to think about...............Will the parents of those copybotting teens be laughing when they also are held liable for the actions of their teens.  In the case of minors committing crimes the parents are often the ones sued......Please copy anything regarding the copybot issue and pass it along to your teen friends.

Remember the ripped tunes, where the parents of the offenders were charged and fined huge amounts of money when the music industry clamped down on copyright violations.

Believe me I personally know designers who will sue offenders. The teens AND parents in this case are at risk.

I believe one of the main reasons why teens copybotted items here is simply because they're practically untouchable here. None of the adult users can access the teen grid to keep an eye out for their stolen products. The most a teen copybotter ever got was a ban, which was easily bypassed by the way. I guess now all those years of content theft are really going to backfire.

There's a flickr group set up by some active teen residents that posts snapshots and inspect shots of  various stolen items found on the teen grid. Some are identified, some are awaiting identification. Check it out if you have time, it may be of use.

[Bringing Teens to Second Life’s Main Grid]

The copybot issue is going to be another  problem for you guys.  Over on this side of the fence, copybotting is  one of the big cardinal sins.  If someone catches someone with  improperly copied content, they aren't going to ask them to delete it.   They will probably not even talk to them at all.  They will summon the  hounds immediately.  If they suspect that it is improperly copied, they  will summon the hounds.  If they don't know but feel that there might be  a fair chance that there is some copybotted stuff in someone's  inventory... well you get the idea.  Some of this will be part of that  "covert discrimination" again.  Regardless, if they can make it stick  they will.

That's... definitely going to be a problem. Most people here try to match up to the "main grid standard" quality of products. I myself have been getting into creating sculpted avatars and clothing. If someone is falsely reported for "suspicion" of copybot, would sending in copies of things like blender3D files or psd files to the support portal help lift a ban?

You might want to sanitize your inventories before the  merger because there are a whole lot of folks that have absolutely no  sense of humor about that sort of thing.  Otherwise nice normal people who would otherwise "be on your side" will transform into slavering rabid berserkers over the copybot.  It's  kinda fun to watch.

That really is hard to do. At some point or another, a stolen or frankensteined item bubbles up from the depths of your inventory. Just yesterday, I found I had a copybotted scarf and some copybotted Converse Pornstar shoes even ater i had already gone through my inventory twice deleting stolen items.

[Bringing Teens to Second Life’s Main Grid]

I think those of us who really don't want to interact with the teens seem to be just planning on pulling out of the G rated areas.  Most people are generally decent enough and my guess that there will be more avoidance than outright hostility.  No offense, but I will probably be one of those keeping my distance at first.

None taken, I understand.

I think one area where there may be a bit of friction is wargaming.  By the current standards, violence is not really permitted in a general rated parcel.  I think it is a sure bet that there will be an issue there.

Huh, so all damage enabled land is rated mature? That's something new to me. Well i suppose unless the current armies develop a new PG combat system using LSL.

One of the other big concerns that I hear about (not that I personally care too much) is about the prevalance of copybotted content.  How big of an issue is it over on the TG and do you anticipate problems once the merger kicks in?

That is a worrying thing. It's a huge issue here on the teen grid. We aren't really talking about a few 3-5 avatars wearing some hair or a skin. We're talking about 90% to even 100% of avatars per region wearing near completely copybotted avatars starting from the shape down to the last bracelet. Guaranteed anything from hair to furry avatars to weapons all have their own illegal copies here going around for free or even sold. It's become so common that the very idea of speaking out against it is considered laughable. One copybotter account alone  can contain up to 5000 stolen items. Multiply that by maybe 50 and you have a pretty big problem, though that could be due to our small size. Yes i do believe there will be issues with stolen content. The most that any creator can do is keep a close eye for their items. If you see someone wearing your product, I say inspect it quickly and double check. If it's stolen, notify the owner. If they refuse to remove and delete the item (which they most likely will) file a report or send in a DMCA. That's about it.

[Bringing Teens to Second Life’s Main Grid]

 

Well, generally people seem fairly open to it, mainly the content creators. One of the resident owned sims is being stocked up with things like furniture, clothing and hair. Some residents are quitting for now as they won't be able to use SL for a year or two (and don't like the idea of being tossed in a small playpen) Other than that, things are going about as normal. Some are looking forward to exploring the main grid while others are worried that teens may face discrimination from residents who negatively stereotype them. I myself am looking forward to this merger, despite some concerns with safety. It's going to be nice to get back in touch with some of my old friends who transferred as well as improving my skill at building and design. I think that, even though this merge is going to be a huge change for all of us, I don't think our daily routines will change much. Safety is still shaky, but at the same time it may not be anything a little bit of precaution and common sense can't fix (for now anyways) I'll probably set some stuff up on the marketplace and see what happens. We're all planning on participating in the community where we can, just as we normally would here.

 

[Bringing Teens to Second Life’s Main Grid]

No one expects you to respond to anything. They just expect you to read it, understand it, take it into consideration and let things move on.

No.

[Bringing Teens to Second Life’s Main Grid]

Nany, please. Just stop. You are not the diamond in this rough. Stop trying to make yourself out as someone who is morally above everyone else here. It's not the case and it has been said with evidence several times. I'm not going to go off pointing out the issues here because I just see another endless cycle coming up like the one above, and before that one and before that. I'm only going to say this. In cases like these, becoming a negative subject of discussion is not some spontaneous event. It happens for a reason, that being your impression. Give the whole "I am morally more awesomerrr" 'tude a rest. Your reputation has already been battered enough. No need to make things worse.

*Click*

Aaaaand we are back on topic . Time to work out plans for after New Years.

[Bringing Teens to Second Life’s Main Grid]

Nany, could you please stop going on and on about your pet project.  Not every thread is an appropriate place for you to promote yourself.  For goodness sake, this thread is about the introduction of teens onto the main grid and the welfare of minors, not yet another opportunity for you to turn this into something all about you.

Please give it a rest already.  Yes, we know you have a nonprofit and you have successfully managed to somehow panhandle enough to keep it running.  Good for you!  Now can we please return to the subject at hand which isn't you by the way.

Thank

You

So

Much

[Bringing Teens to Second Life’s Main Grid]

I was sort of thinking the same thing, just that there could be the equivalent of that adult only group for teenage users. It would be nice to have some sense of the kind of people you run into. I never really liked the decision do keep age undisclosed to other users. Yes it is to assure the security of residents, but wouldn't you be safer knowing who you're talking to rather than not knowing at all? I feel without some kind of indicator that says "adult" or "teen" people would be more at risk. I'll definitely wear a small "teen" tag when I'm in public just to avoid any future complications.

[Bringing Teens to Second Life’s Main Grid]

Unfortunately Linden Labs is not implementing that due to safety. Which doesn't make much sense to me considering it becomes easier to get targetted by a pedophile now.

[Bringing Teens to Second Life’s Main Grid]

This is a terrible idea. Anyone who owns a sim should be worried about this, whether or not their sim is PG. There are so many ways this can bite you in the posterior it isn't funny. LL - if teens must come to the main grid, you must isolate them on their own continent. This is the only way to avoid horrific legal complications for both LL and it's adult customers. Failure to isolate teens from things many parents consider objectionable/the law states they cannot see will send SL down in a burning fireball of controversy, criminal courts, and lawsuits. LL will no longer have a customer base to get money from, because SL will no longer exist.

Yeah they already did that. It's called Teen Second Life.

There is no main grid or teen grid, those were just terms made up to name the two seperate masses of regions. We're all on one grid. Agni. If you go on the map or SLurl, move your view down the the farthest south eastern corner and you'll see our little corner of the world. We just have a barrier blocking us from teleporting into main grid regions. The request to make an isolated continent for us to reside in basically means you want linden labs to do nothing. Meaning several main grid designer's items will get stolen by the day and Linden Labs would still be losing money, pushing them to this kind of situation.

That doesn't mean they have the right idea merging us either. I honestly doubt nothing will happen at all. Someone, whether they be adult or teen, will be misinformed or make a mistake and then we'll see yet another clear example of the domino effect. For now, nothing has happened yet. We don't know for sure if Linden Labs is completely ignoring safety. Maybe they have some plan underway. Maybe they have some blind hope people will look the other way. I don't know. We don't know. No one knows other than them. It seems pretty clear now that LL is not taking any of the perfectly valid and reasonable suggestions presented on this forum. All we can do now is prepare for what is to come, despite the hassle and irritation.