Gavin Hird

There should be links and numbers in the gaming thread. If you can't find it I'll try to chase them up, but not till tomorrow.

The EU consumer authorities tell the populations in now most EU countries that such TOS can be disregarded unless they are in compliance with the legislation. Particularly Apple has felt this for iTunes and iCloud, but a bunch of others too. Not being in compliance when the directive is in effect means not having access to 500+ million consumers.

Freya Mokusei wrote: I don't see how such a localised law would affect the rest of the EU or give anyone the power to shut US services out of member country markets, above and beyond any other trade agreement. Happy to be educated on this point, I've been trying to get a source on this thing the whole way through, no-one's heard of it. You obviously don't understand how an EU directive work, but it is mandated to be worked into the legilsation of all member states. So there is nothing localized about it. :-) There is plenty of source on it - go to the gaming thread or search EU documents.

The only way any European could be tried before a US court in a conflict with LL is if they traveled to the US. Otherwise, there are multiple court cases in Eurpoean countries that have deemed TOS simmilar to LL's null and void for their citizens. They are seen as a one way declaration because the way they are organized, because they significanly disadvantage the consumer and are unbalanced in LL's favor, and because changes are not pre-announced the 14 days minimum required by law. There is a lenghty discussion on the topic over in the gaming thread and I will not repeat.

Right now they can't but that is changing. There is a draft EU directive which will mandate EVERY company providing a service from outside of EU borders, to follow the EU consumer legislation or be shut out of the market. This regardless if they are incorporated inside the union or not. Most likely the directive will be effective next year.

Phil Deakins wrote: You said the ONLY thing you can bring over is your name and purse. You were wrong, and I told why you were wrong. I guess I should have said "the only thing currently known to man" is... – and I am sorry I forgot ego; I guess that transfers pretty well too ;-)

Phil Deakins wrote: Gavin Hird wrote: SLv2 does not have anything. The only thing you can bring over is your name and purse. Even there, you are wrong. It's been stated that names and L$ will go over, but it was also said by Ebbe that some stuff would also go over but it's known what yet. You're not getting very much right, are you? Everything I have stated is correct, the rest is not known yet, or? :-)

But it makes a heck of a difference in the powerpoint charts presented to management and investors. The alienation has already happened and will long since be over and done with when SLv2 is marketable.

SLv2 does not have anything. The only thing you can bring over is your name and purse.

Phil Deakins wrote: As I said - a figment of someone's imagination I can subscribe to that, and I referred to it a few pages back in the managment tossups we have seen. Now, back to the new world to chip away at the welcome ceremony for you guys when you are tired of – oh, what is the latest fad... Experience Keys. – That's a game changer.

Phil Deakins wrote: Who said anything about a 7+ audience? That's just a figment of someone's imagination. There is a very close realtionship between 7+ audience and the pronounced desire to scale to hundreds of millions of users (on more platforms.)

I have sufficient knowledge to be able to make a statement of the general sentiment yes. And I am not going to document it for you. ;-)

Drake1 Nightfire wrote: Except that Ebbe has already said that adult activities will be allowed in the new platform.. Since the CEO has stated they will be allowed, WHY THE HELL ARE YOU STILL ARGUEING ABOUT IT? He has not said that. He has said that all activities that are permissible under the law that goes on in SecondLife will be permissible in SLv2. BUT – and this is the culprit. What is permissible under the law is highly dependent of minimum age of entry to the service. If they go for a 7+ audience, it will be a VERY different reality than what is currently the case.

Drake1 Nightfire wrote: Please post a few links to these uber negative news stories. Are they from actual news sites or fly by the night web crap? Guess what? - Gasp, not everything can be linked to. You are talking to someone who lives in an area with the highest density of print news media in the world. They don't put everything on the net in searchable format and certainly not back to 2007 when the stigma was created. After that it has been maintained. For the rest I am sure you are as good a googler as I am. As someone who travels the Nordic countries weekly for my job; I pretty much know the sentiment and why virtually nobody from the region are in SecondLife.

Phil Deakins wrote: Gavin Hird wrote: Phil Deakins wrote: There is currently no competition for SL, and the upcoming competition that is known about will come from LL, so it won't really be competition at all. Yeh, till you realize you'll have to leave your kink behind. ;-) LOL. I don't have a kink. I don't even do normal sex in SL, and I haven't done for years. I haven't been talking from my own desires. I've been talking from the point of view of common sense and the knowledge of human nature that we all possess. There is no common sense on which American legislation on sex and adult are built on. Every European knows that. That is what you are up against. Yup!

Phil Deakins wrote: There is currently no competition for SL, and the upcoming competition that is known about will come from LL, so it won't really be competition at all. Yeh, till you realize you'll have to leave your kink behind. ;-)

Phil Deakins wrote: It's good to know that you spend most of your time elsewhere. Perhaps you could spend more of it there Someone's got to prepare the ground for when the anckle-biters come scrambling as their old world crumble, hehe.

So my counter claim is that you are in total denial of what the real reputation of SecondLife actually is, and you know nothing about the Nordics (let alone whom I meet). :-)) My stigma for SecondLife is associated with the slew of stupidities LL managment have shown over the years, starting with the adult content policy and Zindra. To the extent I now spend much more time in the "competing" world.

Phil Deakins wrote: I don't know where you live but I'd bet that, if you went into the town cetre and asked people what they thought of SL, you'd find that most them would not even know that SL exists. Perhaps you've found the stigma amongst the few people you know, but that's not the same thing at all. Every time there is something in the press about it, the sex and looser stigma is hung on it. Not so often in the press these days, but still there from time to time. This is also the general impression troughout people you'd ask. – Which is why you hardly find any residents from my country in SL any more. The same can be said of the entire geo region (Nordic countries).

Phil Deakins wrote: What stigma? I'm not aware of any stigma. Most of the RL people who I talk about SL with have never heard of it. Perhaps a few people in the world think of SL as a hive of sex, but the majority of the world's population hasn't heard of SL or, if they have, they were so impressed by what they heard that they promptly forgot about it. So I'm not aware of any stigma. Where I live there most certainly is a stigma where SecondLife = sex + loosers

Leia36 wrote: It does not seem plausible to me that LL would countenance interference at such a low level from non American authority. (I am not American) The reality is that EU is on a fast track to both create and adopt legislation that will force any internet based service provider regardless of location doing business with European consomers to be in compliance with EU legislation when it comes to TOS, privacy protection, warranties and a slew of other measures. American companies like Microsoft and Apple who sell tangibles to European consumers have been forced to make substantial changes to their TOS – also on their services like iCloud and iTunes, and Microsoft online services. The pure service providers are next or they will be blocked from the EU market. This is a reality also LL will face.

Leia36 wrote: Hey, I think I'll pop around to a few of the university and medical sims to see the "socially inept weirdos" in their natural habitat. Best place to spot them!

Freya Mokusei wrote: I do know that they will continue to support diversity and freedom of identity wrapped up in a shiny coating of good old american double standards. FIFY ... at least the old prune got to the see the greek statues without Calvin Klein briefs. Thanks to you too! ;-)

So you have essentially eliminated every relevant mobile device platform from SLv2. – Even if Microsoft were relevant with more than 2-3% marketshare in that space, they would suck equally well given they have the same policy. Fortunately they are irrelevant. :-)

Freya Mokusei wrote: Gavin Hird wrote: (which is the reason why web browsers get that rating – Safari does not as it is under control of the Parental Guide system settings.) Ahaha, excellent. The Internet is for porn, ergo web browsers are for porn (except ours). Good old Apple, showing that it's definitely not ever about protecting anyone - it's about controlling the market and limiting unfriendly innovation. From an american company's standpoint it is about not getting sued, protect the brand, reputation and share holder value. Did you know that 87% of iOS is open source, while 49% of Android is? Thought not ;-)