Pristeen Barbosa

"a men mind in a women body, would never be as feminine as woman's mind, im attracted to feminine mind that have a feminine body, that is not a men mind in a female body (femininity would be fake or learned and not natural in this case), im attracted to the whole package" We clearly have very different views on what gender is. Your statement suggests to me that you view gender as being a black and white issue, either one thing or the other. This is what's often referred to as the "gender binary" view. It's also the view that wider society mostly seems to support. I don't view it that way though. I see gender as being a kind of grayscale, with cisgendered people falling at either of the two extreme ends of the spectrum, but with lots of shades of gray inbetween. If it really were a black and white issue, then there would be no feminine men or masculine women. We know that they do exist though, so that indicates to me that gender doesn't always conform to polar opposites, and that plenty of people fall somewhere between the two ends of the spectrum (myself included). So when you talk about a mans mind inside a womans body and vice versa, that makes no sense to me at all, as I have no idea what a man or a womans mind is supposed to feel like. These things are purely subjective, and as I see it, when you talk about gender in those terms, you run the risk of trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. It can, and sometimes does, create a false dichotomy by which people who don't conform to the gender binary, are wrongly judged. "we are very competitive beings, we separate in teams against each other, we have to prove which one is better, that works on our favor, because the more we try to be better than the opponent, the more our knowledge and abilities evolve" I don't really buy into the whole competitive thing either, and I never have done. It's fair to say that society is geared towards competitive behaviour, but as I said earlier, I find myself at odds with society in many ways, and that's something else that I struggle with. I favour collaboration over competition, as I feel it's less likely to lead to destructive behaviour. But that's a whole other can of worms. :smileywink:

Canoro Philipp wrote: i dont find androgynes attractive, what i find attractive is femininity, that thing that only women can do best, that is not fake or learned, that it comes naturally, those aspects that separate us as genders, physically, psychologically and emotionally. nobody is better then them at that, doesnt matter if an androgyne uses a lot of makeup and even have a sex change operation, men are never gonna become a woman, because our gender is hardcoded from even before we are born. i like women, so i find no androgyne attractive. You seem to be implying that anyone who isn't cisgendered is somehow fake or that traits/gender cues that they display, are some sort of affectation rather than something which is natural to them. I can't speak for other transsexuals or androdgynous people, but from my perspective, it was society that tried to force me to be something that was wholly unnatural to me. The person that I've grown to become, goes right back as far as I can remember. To use your term, I would suggest that my gender identity is as "hardcoded" in me as anyone else's is in them. From a very early age though, I learned that if I was to be accepted, then I had to hide who I was, and not talk about it. So for years, I buried who I was, to the point that it quite literally nearly killed me. I don't wear makeup or try to convince people that I'm something I'm not. I dress in a completely neutral manner, as that's how I feel most comfortable, and it suits my lifestyle. That it seems to cause so much consternation when I'm out and about, appears to me to say far more about society than it does about me. I'm not surprised though, as I've long since felt that as much as society binds people together, it also drives them apart. Race, religion, politics, sexuality, all these things, with constant reinforcement from the media, drive a wedge between people, and potentially set up conflicts that need not exist. And it's because of all this, that I limit my contact with most of society. I only involve myself in it as much as I need too, and no more. I'm not unhappy about it though, as I've grown to value my privacy, and as odd as I may seem to some people, I can assure you, society at large seems equally odd to me. Whether someone is cisgendered, intersex, trans, andro, or any point inbetween, is irrelevant to me. All that matters is what they've got going on upstairs.

Having been through male to female gender reassignment when I was younger, I ended up finding myself in a place that was quite unexpected, but that I'm now perfectly happy with. Prior to surgery, I felt it was very important to me that the world viewed me as female, as that's how I felt about myself, and as my hormone treatment progressed, that became reasonably easy to achieve. I never felt entirely comfortable though, which troubled me quite a lot. I never felt comfortable dressing in an overtly feminine manner, though that's exactly what the medical profession demand of you, before they'll consider you for gender reassignment. So I toed the line, and breezed through the "real life test" without too much trouble at all. Once I'd had surgery though, I found myself caring less and less about how I was viewed by others. I realize now that the confirmation of having the body that I felt that I should always have had, was really all I needed, and the views of others, or any need for validation on the matter, was moot. Having mixed with a lot of other transsexuals, and dated a few, I know that my take on it all is quite atypical, as most seem to feel that the need to fit into the "gender binary" view that our society (mostly) imposes on itself, is of vital importance. I ended up in many heated debates on the matter, which left me feeling quite at odds with the TS community. As far as appearance goes, I would descibe myself as androgynous. The reactions I get when I'm out and about, vary a great deal. Some people gawp, slack jawed at me, others seem mildly puzzled for a moment and then shrug it off, some don't appear to see anything unusual at all, and others are outwardly hostile to the point of shouting abuse, and even spitting at me. I should add, I do get positive reactions as well. The funny thing is, I'm often most disarmed when people flirt with me. :D I don't in any way try to court controversy (other than being open about who I am, which seems to some, to be controversial in of itself), and I don't dress in an outrageous manner. For the most part, when I'm out and about, I'm either riding a bicycle or skating on my longboard, so jeans and hoodies/t-shirts and trainers are not only the most practical clothes to wear, but also what I feel most comfortable in. I'm not really sure I'll ever understand why people seem so preoccupied with how others present themselves to the outside world, unless of course they're deliberately courting controversy, but for the most part, I'm past caring about it. *edit - sorry Mayalily, my post wasn't a reply to yours, it's just a general reply.