Ayesha Askham
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Posts posted by Ayesha Askham
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@ Oskar
24 hours?? I knew this roll was borked at 3pm BST on Tuesday. Stop giving us corporate crap and DO SOMETHING Oskar, Maestro and Kelly. You guys created this abomination, You knew there would be impact last week on LeTigre.
This is the worst rubbish to hit the Main Server in 12 months. SORT IT, I've run out of patience and politeness.
Just look at these posts and who is posting, that tells you all you need to know.
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@Blaze
Latif is partly correct, Blaze. Full-Region sims do seem better able to cope with this script time penalty that the Roll imposed, but then, some Homesteads also seem to be running OK too! I think this finally proves that not all full-region servers are current generation, and that some Homestead servers are better than others. I just wish LL would Pony up and tell us.
The bottom line is still that this is a totally borked upgrade. I suspect that Kelly Linden's move to introduce Mono2 has caused this, and the deafening silence from LL is a sure sign that:
1)They introduced some of this as a prelude to Homestead and avatar script limits, and
2) They haven't a clue how to fix it.
Silence from LL is nearly always a sign that they know they've screwwed up but don't yet know what is wrong or how to fix it.
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@Oskar
OK, I suspect you have a problem with the new Main Server software, Oskar. TD on my sim has dropped from a perfectly respectable 0.95-0.98, to 0.65-0.80 after this roll. That is not good at all, we are "rubber-banding" all over the place, and vehicles are behaving very badly in sim, never mind on sim crossings (this is an island so that doesn't apply anyway).
We only have about 1200 scripts running, and about 2500 prims out, so we aren't taxing the server much.
You are at 257371.9, 321841.9, 901.8 in Woods of Heaven located at sim2517.agni.lindenlab.com (216.82.19.231:13002)
Second Life Server 11.06.17.233176.I'd be grateful for an acknowledgement and a suggested solution please.
Additional info:
Script time has significantly increased and sim spare time, formerly 12-15ms is now down to 4 or less. Something in your software is seriously impeding sim/script interaction. Please remedy this, Oskar.
I suspect only a certain class of server is being impacted by this, but I would expect some sim crashes soon if this is not addressed.
I know you've had two crappy weeks in development, but that doesn't mean you can roll this sort of rubbish to the main server!
Additional info 2:
I'm going to try a restart anyway, 'cos some homestead servers seem unaffected as yet by whatever script-bug you have introduced.
An acknowledgement that there was an issue would have been civil, Oskar
Update 3:
Tried 2 sim restarts, one was markedly worse, with a TD of 0.5-0.6, second was marginally better with the sim running btween 0.7 and 0.85 TD and spare time between 4 and 8 ms. Now we have zip response, Oskar. This is simply NOT GOOD ENOUGH. A lot of LL's income comes from tier on Homesteads. OK so vehicle movement between mainland sims is better...oh Whoopee, most Homesteads are islands so that isn't exactly useful (no dis to those who DO use vehicles across sim borders), but COME ON, let's see some response, either from you or Maestro over this...or do I need to raise a JIRA??
Looking at what was actually changed in this roll, it looks as though by attempting a fix on SVC-3895, you've borked script -sim interaction to the point that some scripts are now taking up more simulator time than they used to. This would surely not be "expected behaviour"? Or is this the thin end of the script-limit wedge on Homestead sims?
Update 4:
I notice now that all references to the Main Server roll yesterday has vanished from the Grid Status page...Why on Earth do that? The conspiracy theorists are going to have a field-day on this. And you were all doing so well...<sigh>.
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@Mystie
Yes, I understand your point, but do bear in mind the very real people who would have to work at those hours to do the software share-out to the sim hosts. Linden Lab (for good or ill) is very cost-conscious and having skilled programmers or even tekky oiks working at that hour would be costly for them.
However, considering how tech-oriented the Far East (to us) is, it might be wise of Linden Lab to give your case consideration. On past performance I wouldn't hold your breath!:matte-motes-wink:
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@Monti
First point; Pre-rendering.....it essentially mean that the shadows, and a good deal else is "pre-rendered" or pre-created by the site that you are gaming, so your graphics card has to work less hard as does your CPU. The downside is that you have NO EDITORIAL CONTROL over those items. In SL you do. That is a very substantial difference, and for those who wish to create their own stuff it is a massive advantage, even if it is slower and laggy (client side mostly).
Second , the point of having multiple server-software versions out on limited sections of the grid is so ithat genuine real-time testing of the software by a variety of clients can be done before the entire grid is subjected to it. There is a slight instability cost to be paid for it, but as anyone caught out by the 1.40 disaster last year would tell you, it is infinitely preferable.
The restarts are weekly, and as far as I recall always have been...I can remember when SL would be effectively closed for half the day while sim hosts were restarted.
It might not be the "best possible" solution for everyone, but the resulting pain is a very great deal less.
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@ Professor Merryman and Wolfbaginski
The concept of batches of sims hosts being restarted at a specific one-hour slot is a very attractive one, I must say, but I suspect logistical issues might preclude that. Any comment Oskar?
Mind you, today won't see any Main Grid Roll since there are "Late issues" to be sorted out, so perhaps, Professor, your classes will be undisturbed (unless you cancelled them because of the Scheduled Roll...:matte-motes-dont-cry:
What I am also impressed by is the way that this topic has been discussed without any silliness or flaming, and with the active contribution of a Linden - Two or three years ago I would not have thought such a thing possible!:smileyhappy:
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@ Professor Merryman
There is a perennial issue here. Convenient for one timezones is inconvenient for others. 8am SLT is 4pm in the UK and 5-6pm in much of Europe...very inconvenient. So they're damned if they do and damned if they don't. 5am SLT is an early start for Linden Lab, but happens slap bang in the middle of a European day. We have little choice but to plan around it.
Restarting all the main grid sim hosts is a long process, and cannot be done all at once easily...They tried and it was a disaster...remember when SL was virtually dead for a couple of hours on Restart day?
As things stand we know Main Grid Roll will occur around 1pm BST/GMT on a Tuesday, so we plan around it. I'm afraid it is that simple.
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@Luc and AkumaGoddo
Server ping is indeed a good measure of how well (or how badly) SL's server-web connection is doing. In my experience, it is one of the slowest connections in that part of the USA, as seen from Europe. That doesn't help. Severs side TD is very dependent on the type of sim you are on. Full regions with a moderate script and prim load fare best of all, with TD rarely falling below 0.95. Homestead sims are a lot less stable and robust, and even moderate script and prim loads will see TD dropping below 0.90 on occasion. Openspace sims....God knows but they are not intended for significant script loads. Really, it would aid non-US users if LL would improve their web connection speed, and (laughs) update their non full-region servers (chance would be a fine thing).
That said, if a non-US ISP is performing below par, or the router is misbehaving (wireless or not) non connection to the main Grid is a real possibility. Having suffered from poor line speeds for my first 15 months in SL, I know how frustating that can be.
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Nothing on the calendar for the main server this week. Have I missed something? No other comments either from Oskar or anyone else. I just get the feeling I ought to know why this is so, but I don't.:smileysurprised:
Typical. By the time I'd finished posting this Oskar had posted the definitive news...no Main Grid Roll.:matte-motes-sour:
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@ Oskar
Oh Lor...."Boom"
You are having a torrid time getting stuff out to the grid at the moment, but, I tell you,seeing this posted upfront by a Linden is seriously good. In times gone by LL used to clam up tight when stuff wasn't working. This openness is greatly appreciated by me at least. I suspect Maestro recalls those times even if you don't Oskar.
/me hobbles off to buy another can of LL Bug Killer.
Best of luck fishing the bugs out of it, guys.
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@Void
Looks like another mine went off today. If this isn't a stream of rollbacks, perhaps I don't know what is.
I don't like sounding like a doomsayer, but this really is getting too much. Yes I know software needs to be tested on the main grid, but this last example, where two of three instances have failed is merely a case-in-point. The point is that too much...far too much is being missed.
More pre-roll work needs to be done or SL will begin haemorraging even more badly, and before long it will be difficult to find another avatar older than a few weeks with whom to have sensible discourse.
Perhaps SL is playing to a script...a badly written one?
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@Void
Durr....only just started with IE9....thanks!
Now...as I was saying.........I take the point about weekly restarts being no big deal - at least we know when to expect disruption, but it is inconveniently slap bang in the middle of the European day, so it eats significantly into my online time, despite my accessing SL at home. IF, and it's a big IF the recent restarts hadn't been such borked affairs I'd have no worries - Oskar knows I snipe but I'm fair.
The last two attempts to get software changes out to the grid have been outright failures, this latest affair was painful. I don't live on LeTigre thank the deity, but if I did I'd be a tad miffed at such underdeveloped software being foisted on me time and again. I KNOW we need RCs to adequately test new stuff, but these last two are so far off beam I cannot seriously believe that sufficient care was taken during the development phase.
I can look at this in two ways:
1) Linden Lab are now using less competent software developers, who do not consider the impact of their work on Linden Lab's customers, in order to cut costs,
or
2) Linden Lab is such a poor employer that they cannot attract better devs.
I don't want to believe either.
Alexi has a tendency, in my opinion to yell rather quickly, but recent events, and the general slow degradation of SL services make it more understandable.
The script failures I've seen lately are to say the least inconvenient, and they are definitely related to changes made to the server software - it smacks of poor checking. I work in a pressured, high-value industry, we cannot afford to make mistakes of the scale we've seen lately in SL.
My verdict has to be: Could and Must do better.
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@Oskar and the Release Team (yes and you, Maestro):
I have to say that your performance in picking up the LeTigre issue and getting it bug-fixed this week has been exemplary. In the past it seemed to need residents screaming abuse and imprecations at LL before issues were adressed and rollbacks could take a day or so to be instigated.
You guys are turning this ship around - Kudos to you all and, it must be said, to Rod Humble for, it seems, creating the right atmosphere for you folk to do such a great job.
The high volume of whingeing or genuine complaints seems to have dropped to virtually (haha) zero.:smileyvery-happy:
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Just to add a bit more detail after a few hours online:
Sculpties, or rather how they are seen, are badly affected by this new server software and scripts run a bit glitchily - i.e. looping scripts show distinct pauses in the loop - I guess they are running slowly?
The sculpty issue is affecting other viewers and GPUs than mine (nVidia GT9400 SSE2 PCI) depite whatever LOD setting used. The worst affected items are sculpty trees actually.
Now this is widely affecting the Main Server set now, so your guys need to determine what it is that is in this software that is affecting such items. There is no doubt in my mind that this issue has got a great deal worse following this week's rolls.
Now it might be an issue that selectively affects 1.xx viewers worse than 2.xxs, but there's a lot of us out here, we pay your salaries, so come on, sort this out.
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Thanks for the comments, Maestro.:smileyhappy:
I don't think it is the texture-fetching as such, 'cos there is no Post-TP change in the fetching route. I have a way of checking.... However, it does seem more widespread after the RC rolls this week, so why that should be I do not know.
I don't/can't use v2.xx yet on my set up, so I cannot follow your path.
For a while I thought that it was a consequence of some tweak hitting my GPU function, but that might be via the Phoenix set up too, so I'm none the wiser. Hohum.
It's not a show-stopper, but it is irritating.
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Ha!
You can run, Oskar, but you can't hide! Hmm, smileys are broken again....
On TPing from one server version to another lately textures have been very slow to load if returning to Main server version from Magnum regions...any thoughts on that Oskar? Will have to see if this restart set changes matters. I'm running (horror) Phoenix 977, if it helps.
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@ Oskar
Thanks for that, Oskar,:smileyhappy:, it is a good thing to see such responses from Lindens, and Yes, of course you can have a RL (just make sure you get a reliable internet connection!!
Seriously...it so often seems that oddities, not necessarily bugs as such seem to abound in SL on the weekends, it makes me wonder what they are. Can they all be down to tekkies fiddling with wires on our ISPs?:smileysurprised:
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@ Oskar
Tsk, you have weekends off?? That implies that you have a RL...not allowed!
Seriously though, creation of Jiras apart Alexi does have a point. To most of us it now seems that during the weekend, and for us in Europe that means well into Monday, LL goes dark.
Surely you (Global You, ie Linden Lab) must have some cover for weekends other than elves to fix broken servers? If you don't, and it does look that way, you cannot by any measure be providing your customers/users/call us what you will with a service.
If Rod Humble wants us to believe he's doing something to improve SL, that's a big point.
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@Penny
I'm going to take issue with you over this.
1) Linden Labs were responsible for the introduction of the worst memory hogging scripting language known to Geekind. Not us, Linden Lab.
2) Yes Resize/recolour scripts in Hair and shoes have been taken to insane levels by inept creators...but they did know what they were doing, some were just lazy.
3) Some users are just too bone-idle to remove or kill scripts in such objects.
4) Avatar script-limits was just a smoke-screen put up by the Lab to try to ameliorate a bad situation which was largely their own creation.
Yes, a lot of sim-lag is due to idiotic, or ignorant users who do not realise what effect their 250-prim, 250-script hair does to a server; but the root cause of this was a laissez-faire attitude among the Guardians of this medium.
Maybe a campaign of education of new, and not-so-new residents would be the place to start.
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@Shockwave, and by default Oskar
I know that there was some Inventory Server Maintenance again on Friday...now in my mind that has become a euphemism for "we're working on the Asset Servers....again" in Lindenspeak. There is no doubt that the Asset servers are still painfully slow to respond to either client or direct sim server requests. Why? God knows, and he ain't telling.
I know that LL have at least started to do some IP policing and I applaud it...better late than never. Whether this is what has fouled up the Asset Server response or what or whether it is the server-software I don't know , but some explantion is required for this...is there a JIRA yet?
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@Oskar
Firstly, thankyou for keeping us informed, it is appreciated. I DO tend to be critical, but I also give credit where it's due.
There are some oddities associated with this server version, but I believe there is a slight drop in lag (improvement in TD factor) with this roll on the main server software. Some old scripts are now running smoothly again. Perhaps they are related and the sim-server is able to service script calls more effectively now.
It is also good to see LL being pro-active in stamping on IP infringement without necessarily banning ingenuous residents. (Sorry, that's OT here).
@ Astarte:
I saw a similar issue last week when Woods of Heaven (my sim) was unreachable for 5 hours. It wasn't offline, it just seemed that the system couldn't resolve its coordinates. God knows why. We were never told, it just was accessible again. It may or may not be due to the rolls.
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@Oskar
Firstly, sorry to hear about your home net...I hope it's fixed soon. Thanks for making a morning run to get this stuff posted. We're not just moaning, this info is important to us.
Yes, I am critical of LL's poor communications record, but there are solid signs that things are improving.
Can't LL afford to give you a back-up so that something can be posted if the worst happens?
Fingers crossed that the trend for improvements continues, but as Alexi has posted elsewhere in this forum, TPs seem to getting sticky again.
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@Hitomi
Yes, I see the whiteboard has been updated with this week's rolls (with the exception of Magnum as you point out), but it is now 2.5 hours into the scheduled roll and STILL no Official comment either in the Blog or in the Release thread.
Put bluntly, I expect a great deal more from Linden Lab than this shameful performance.
The Status page was not updated until 4 minutes before the Main Grid Roll was due to start, and all information elsewhere has arisen subsequently. Now I know that the meetings to decide on the content of the server software updates don't always take place until Monday afternoon PST, but this dissemination of information must be improved for land managers and owners.
Having an SL resident act as official apologist for their tardiness is simply not acceptable.
I'm sorry if you feel slighted by this comment, Hitomi, I am angry with Oskar and Linden Lab, not you.
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Well, here we go...it is SL Residents that are disseminating information again, in the absence of any Linden presence in these fora, or any comment on the blog. I note that while there is a server version listed in Release Notes for the main grid (in under 2 hours now) - there is nothing on the Whiteboard, Official Blog or Status page.
It is almost as if the people who run this virtual world are scared to actually officially admit to doing anything!
Lil Linden learned very quickly the value of communication with us Customers/residents of SL, how long will it take Oskar to overcome his shyness?
Or then again, Lil soon found greener pastures elsewhere - what does that say for those that remain?
This is disappointing, but hardly surprising news.:womansad:
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Deploys for the week of 2011-06-27
in Second Life Server
Posted
@WolfBaginski
You know, when things are fouled up we always seems to get the same Linden Lab apologists telling us how "It ain't so bad" and "They're doing their best" and "SL is a complex programme". Jack, Elite, a few others and sad to say, you.
Let me put this simply. Linden Lab has had nearly a decade of experience in this "complex programme". We pay a lot of money...RL money, to partake of this programme, and I, for one, love it.
BUT
When something as glaring as this happens, and it has happened a fair few times, we do NOT appreciate the ponderous process that ensues, with NOTHING being reported to us via the Grid Status Page. That is what causes the furore, not that there's been a miscalculation or a simple oversight in the effect a piece of software will or might have. In the ensuing vacuum you cannot be surprised if folk start to shout. I had begun to wonder whether the Release Blog was actually being monitored, and I try to be positive and give useable info if I do post - I don't just rant.
Once again we are seeing that Linden Lab have failed signally to learn that communication to your customers is paramount.
If LL had at least acknowledged that there was a possible issue with this release, a lot of hand-wringing would have been avoided and LL's reputation would not have been trashed again. It is not sufficient to say that an announcement was made as soon as possible after all the committees had met ( those of us in the EU know how very effective that process is).
I have little doubt that this issue will be sorted, and that SL will continue to move ..erm...forward, but the bottom line is still...
TALK TO US!!