Veronika Garzo

>Maybe you can tie the two together for me..........I'm seriously intriqued on how copybotting and forum moderating are connected. They are related because, in terms of what LL actually does, they seem to have different sets of rules for different users. There is more clarity in a rock!! We might be better to bang a couple together, at least there is the chance of a spark!!!

The very best policy is try to stick to the facts and not to try to enroll other unwitting contributors, or to use 'snippets' from others postings to illustrate or infer collusion to support your perspective. The thread is now getting completely lost to your personal crusade, and the very best way to deal with it is to ignore your incessant pushing of your more than opinionated feelings and annoyance. This thread is about copybotting, not about you or your issues with Linden Labs or any other forum member. If you feel you have been wronged then take the matter up with them directly, and stop visiting your bitterness and personal frustration on the rest of us. We are talking about copybotting in this thread and I for one am not interested in discussing anything else other than that. If you don't want to talk about the thread............move on!

That is a copy/paste directly from both Veronika's post and mine at the beginning of this post. It's absolutely unsupportable and without any facts to back it up. It's inflammatory and false. It implies dishonestly by LL and/or the poster. I have been called an LL shill and a Linden's alt. I've been moderated and "punished" in the forums for posts I've made. I've questioned the moderation on one occassion (not publically though........why compound the problem? Ultimately, the decision was justified. I've been guilty of some guideline offense each time I was moderated......minor offenses but offenses just the same. I see a great deal of consistancy in LL. Just because I don't like a post does not make it a violation of a guideline. Just because I agree with a post does not make it okay to be posted. I started to respond to Toysoldier last night............but I was tired and really didn't want to get into it at the time. Veronika's reply prompted me to jump. I agree with her 100% on this. I cannot abide nor condone bigotry and dual standards of any kind. It's quite extraordinary that a poster would accuse LL of such ludicrous and unfounded acts, when the very subject is 'unfounded allegations'! It leaves me speechless!!! I also feel compelled to say that I personally have no 'attachments' or 'favoured' position and also have been moderated for a comment made in the past. It brings to mind the expression 'Methinks he doth protest too much!'

Sadly Peggy, although LL Forums has a policy about "naming names" being a violation and that making unfounded accusations is a big no no... we have seen in recent threads that LL Moderators condones this action even when the violator has AR's filed against them for this violation on the forums. LL lets names be named depending on whom is doing the naming of names. So if you are not a friend of LL's then Peggy is right... dont violate any of LL's posting policies or else LL will punish u. There is of course a distinct difference in making unfounded allegations and issues emanating from a thread which calls into question the integrity of a contributor. Moderators in my opinion are fair and do a pretty good job of filtering out most of the infringements. Violators come in many forms and if those who make written observations and remarks to threads open up an avenue for exploration, it would be well to ensure their own back yard is spotless, particularly when making statements in public places. I also note in some threads such an embittered stance against SL, it permeates throughout some members' contributions. One has to wonder why such unhappy residents remain?

Ah, a man with insight We have however recently upgraded to AK47's!

This is not an applicable argument to the case in point, as the tapestry in question is not hanging in a public place on permanent display. If it was, it is neither over 75 years in age or copyright free as its creator only registered it in 2002. It's a product on a website photographed by the manufacturer or someone employed by them to create imagery for the purpose of marketing. By his own admission, he cannot even recall the source, indicating clearly that he did not take the photographs himself and that the copyright of the derivitive product and photographic representations are not his own. Whilst I thank him for the copious volumes of advice he has given to me, to protect myself from the minority of less than scrupulous marketers that sell on SLX, I am not entirely sure it would be wise to heed it, given his complete lack of understanding of how IP is protected or indeed what actually constitutes copyright. It seems he has now taken down the 19 items in question and that speaks volumes!!!

The whole ethos of this thread was a matter of copyright and usage, permissions and protecting IP. You yourself made it clear that this was not just about sculpt makers, but many other creations that are traded within the 3d environment of SL and on SLX. It is not therefore unreasonable to scrutinise the topic and illustrate some of the issues that might be found for the unwitting customer, who might be fooled into thinking a purchase is reasonable and legitimate. The problem is that many are not and this is the very ethos of this thread. As a paying customer, I expect to recieve what I purchased and I do not expect to find myself wound up in copyright issues as a result of unscrupulous sellers either witholding pertinent information or knowingly selling me items they know they do not hold the copyright to. You have been extremely vocal on this topic and advised that customers should be a bit sharper and more savvy when out shopping, so don't blame me for doing just that!!! It's not my fault that there is a query over the ownership of copyright on 19 items you sell is it? I am merely asking what anyone would when faced with the very same imagery in two locations, both claiming IP rights. One of you is the owner and you certainly don't seem too keen on allaying my fears or those of anyone who has spent good money buying items from you. Where are your assurances that this is your copyright and that those who purchased from you in good faith can rest easy that the items are legitimate?

Zanara clearly pointed out to you that the imagery contained in the old tapestries may no longer be subject to copyright, but these are tapestries created by a manufacturer taking advantage of that situation. For example one image you have used and less than eloquently described as 'Lady Floating' [from a man professing an interest in the arts] is in fact the The Lady of Shallot by John William Waterhouse in 1888 and hangs in the Tate Gallery in London. This masterpiece did not come with a patterned woven border and mounted on a pole with finials and tassles. The pictorial imagery you have used is creation of a recent manufacturer taking advantage of the public domain permissions of the original artwork. They created the item, photographed it and put it up for sale. Therefore the copyright of that item belongs to them, not to you. Then you went further to allude to the fact that you added the finials and tassles yourself!!! Its strange that the tapestry company seems to use the exact same imagery that you claim to have created. This being the case, why aren't you incensed at their blatant use of your photoshop imagery? Why aren't you contacting them to spit vitriole at them as you have others in this forum? I would like to advise you to back out gracefully and hang your head in shame for your bigotry and shamefully abusive manner. However, you won't be able to, so dig yourself in even deeper. You seem hell bent on destroying yourself in public. Just so you know the company state this at the bottom of their website, so they are definitely laying claim to this imagery, the very same used in your self-proclaimed work. You might want to have a word with them about this Copyright © 2002-2012 Polycoat, LLC All rights reserved. 9590 East Florida Ave. #2032, Denver, CO 80247 Toll-Free: 1-866-459-5771 Local Calls: (720) 227-9138 sales@medievalwalltapestry.com

You really are a victim ya know, now some other site has gone and ripped off the finials and tassles!!! Must be ye olde photoshopper!!! http://medievalwalltapestry.com/la-belle-dame-sans-merci.html My goodness you have some misfortune don't you?? Ever heard the expression 'People who live in glass houses, should not throw stones'? Not bad for a naive child eh?????

Thank you so much for such a concise and logical response to this aspect of the thread. I do feel however, that without listed amendments, the buyer would be wise to take a screen shot at the point of purchase, if the terms are not the same when the pack is opened or not included. I would say be very careful and cover yourself from those that would charge you with infringement at a later date. I know this might sound cynical, but there is nobody else gonna help you out in this regard. The other issue is that some 'hide' terms and conditions in the policies section relating to their SLX profile, rather than displaying it or relating to it from within the listing itself. It would be so easy for most to miss this and then find they have spent money on an item that is not fit for purpose. I really do think the system sucks as it is!! Your analogy beautifully illustrates exactly how it is at present!

I hold copyright issues very high and I am fully aware of them and have had to learn the countless fine details of copyright both in making sure i protect my IP of my hand created landscape sculpt maps as well as and even moreso my growing involvement in the art industry. I do not want to alarm you, but I feel I should bring to your attention that your copyright is being infringed by a company who are selling your art/tapestries as their own!!!! Would you like me to tell Linden Labs about this or will you report it yourself to defend your IP rights? the items in question can be clearly seen with their own watermarks to protect from copying at this site:- http://www.worldwidetapestries.com/tapestry/godspeed.html and http://www.worldwidetapestries.com/tapestry/chenonceau-castle.html just for a couple of examples.

My goodness it's been a busy night and still you keep banging the drum!! You must be exhausted from all this preaching to such a disorderly and less than adoring crowd of women!!! It is however the 21st Century and we have had freedom of speech for about a 100 years now. Its interesting that you mention your growing involvement in the arts and I thought I might congratulate you on your varied and extraordinary talents. In addition to making sculpts, who would have thought you would be so adept at tapestry, painting in the various styles of the old masters. Either that or I would assume you own the copyright or license to use if it is not your own work? Would be nice to state clearly in the listing if this is the case. So, as a prospective customer I should like affirmation that you are either the artist or that you have the relevant licenses to use and distribute? I know you are shy of printing your Terms in full within forums so please feel free to send a no mod/no trans copy to my avatar inworld. That would be totally acceptable. I know you will deem this a very important matter to clarify given the obvious attention you give to customer services and to keep your 100% record of satisfied customers informed of your obvious integrity.

I cannot tolerate anymore of your abuse! I tried only to voice my opinion not seek open confrontation or to be abused in a public forum. It is regrettable that you are unable to engage without being so aggressive and defensive. It dilutes what otherwise would be a very interesting thread to explore. I feel given your overbearing and pushy tactics that someone has to call this to a close before you escalate out of all control. I am quite sure given your personality you will see this as a win and that is to be expected. However the true value of your contributions is out there for others to judge and I hope they will.

Yet another diatribe, and still no sight of your full license permissions! Do you really think reiterating your vitriole over and over again does anything to assist this situation? I guess it's a great way to shut a topic down, just so other parties don't have to be subjected to paragraph after paragraph of your opinionated, repetitive and abusive dross. Really a shame you cannot manage to discuss the matter without resorting to aggression and spitting fire at me on a personal level.

Having viewed your store in SLX, I note a basic set of licensing terms published within the item description. You also state the following;- The contents of this pack have additional usage conditions to provide both flexibility to the buyer but also protect the creator's intellectual capital. If you wish to see a copy of the included license in this pack or you have any questions as to these terms prior to purchasing, please contact Toysoldier Thor. This is precisely the kind of practice that causes the problems in the first instance. Perhaps you would like to show us the content of this notecard so we may see what the difference is between that and what you give in the listing? I guess we should at least give your credit for encouraging prospective customers to contact you to find out, most don't! However, what I fail to understand is why you don't just set out the entire story within the listing? If there is no space you could include a link to allow preview of the entire license and make the buying experience simple for the purchaser. We don't all live in the USA and finding merchants to exchange information can be a protracted and arduous affair. Frankly, most would seek an alternative seller and do as u suggest, vote with their feet!!