Ziggy21 Slade
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Posts posted by Ziggy21 Slade
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I DON'T want Banner advertsing, this could increase sales dangerously
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I think maybe you need to be a little more poetic in your approach.
I need a loan sounds like begging, one almost expects you to follow this up with a story about needing cash to visit a dying relative.
I would suggest you don't need a loan, What you need is an investor and what you have to offer is a fabulous and unique business opportunity. I read between the lines a bit here, but I think thats what you are saying.
Either way investment like this is pretty unusual in SL, mainly because everyone else is like you, we all have a great idea but most of us have zero cash to implement it
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As Dillbert points out, your biggest problem is not this other resident but rather Valve Corporation who own the rights to TF2, but lets leave that aside for now.
If this other user decides to take this further, which I very much doubt he will, he will have to file a DMCA against you, when he does LL are obliged to take down your items, since you didn't steal the items (from the complainant) you could then file a counter claim and your items would be restored until the issue is resolved in a court.
Although he doesnt need it to start the complaint, he would eventually have to produce evidence such as project files etc which demonstrate that he created the item before you.
If this was me, I would email Valve Corp, explain that I was a huge fan and ask if they minded if I made some fanware to use here in SL, since this is promoting their business right in front of a competitors nose they may well enjoy the irony and say yes, you are then in a position to report every other resident who makes such items without asking permission first, Of course if they say no your are screwed but then so is the other guy.! MUAHAHAHA!:matte-motes-evil-invert:
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Gadget Portal wrote:Ziggy21 Slade wrote:Gadget Portal wrote:I didn't say they were illegal. I said purchases on the MP use real money and have to obey real laws.
and the point of saying that was?Because some ninny came into the thread and started acting like that wasn't the case. I just felt it needed to be corrected, even though it's not so relevant to the original topic.The name calling is a bit feeble dude.
If you actually read my posts you will see that at no point do I act in any such way, I merely pointed out that Linden Dollars are not legal tender, at no point did I expand this to argue that this meant that breedable creators were somehow above or beyond the law, that was someone elses argument, but if you would like to quote where I do, please go ahead, or apologise for calling me names and putting words in my mouth.
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Adrian Harbinger wrote:Ziggy21 Slade wrote:So please let us know when you start your legal action against breedable creators - I will be watching with interest
That comment is equivalent to saying, "In case of nuclear attack, run in here, it's never been hit."No, it really isn't.
Adrian Harbinger wrote:Secondly, you can play the semantics game all you like, but I'm pretty sure that if you stole a bunch of poker chips from a Vegas casino, a dollar value would be assigned to your larceny charges. Those plastic chips are representative of legal tender within the venue of the casino and can be readily converted to legal tender both inside and outside of the casino.
its not a semantics 'game' , the law is the law, something is either legal tender or it isn't. You can draw any analogy you like, Linden Dollars will never be Legal Tender and neither. for that matter, will poker chips, it doesnt matter if you have to pay for them, it doesnt matter if you can sell them to someone else, it doesnt matter that they have value in one or several casinos, it doesnt matter that you can be arrested for stealing them, it doesnt matter that you can pay for your shrimp cocktail with them, they aren't legal tender.
Legal Tender is the officially and legally recognised form of payment for a particular country or geographical area, in the USA, dollars and cents are legal tender, here in the UK, pounds and pence are legal tender, Pounds and pence are not legal tender in the USA, neither are poker chips, bank cheques, coupons or Linden Dollars
Adrian Harbinger wrote:I simply want to point out to you the obvious fact (supported by the real world precedent I provided in my earlier post which you seem to have dismissed) is that Linden Dollars are equal to their conversion rate to real world US dollars.I wont be making a further comment on this because I really don't see its relevant, this part of the argument started because someone was suggesting taking legal action against breedable creators, and someone else suggested the fact the payments were made in Linden Dollars meant such action was impossible, (for the record, I think this is incorrect), someone else then disagreed with this stating the Linden Dollars are legal tender, I just wanted to point out that this is incorrect, and thats it.
From a taking legal action standpoint, I agree with you, whether purchses were made in Linden Dollars, Dollars and Cents, Pounds and Pence or those little beans they use in the Maldives makes no difference whatsoever. Apart from that as far as I am concerned the point is irrelevant because i think legal action against breedable creators would be impossible for another much more compelling reason, that is the not so insignificant fact that no laws have been broken.
So for the sake of reasoned debate, lets pretend that every single breedable purchase made, was in fact made using legal tender, whatever your personal defintion of that may be, so what!?, now progress the argument, on what basis are you going to start your hypothetical legal action?
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Congratulations, that has to be the longest post ever.
I read it all, it seems to be a confusion of christianity, science fiction, conspiracy theory and political idealism.
One of the main messages seems to be that Magic Mushrooms and Cannabis are good things who's use should be encouraged as it would create a happier more peaceful society. I think I understood that correctly.
Like many christians the OP appears to believe he is in a position to sit in smug judgement over the rest of us, he refers to gay people as 'queers' and later suggests that the rest of us 'all need help'.
He makes a number of references to the Old Testament, recounting the story of Adam and Eve as if it is fact but has conveniently substituted the whole 'god created the earth in 7 days' thing with his own version which takes account of the Big Bang.
My thoughts are:
If you believe in the Old Testament including Adam and Eve and the 10 commandments surely you have to believe all the other nonsense like Noah and the Ark, Joseph living until he was 936 years old etc, I can't see how you can cherry pick bits and pieces and create your own convenient interpretations of the bits that are less convincing to people living in the 21st century.
You say that people choose their religion, I would say very, very few people do this, most including yourself believe what their parents told them to believe, if you are having trouble reconciling that with modern scientific knowledge its because what your parents told you was bollocks.
There are all sorts of communities throughout the world that offer much of what you suggest would improve our society. Since you propose that radicle changes should at first be introduced in a small experimental way, why not give one of these communities a try?, I would suggest it's because when you arent so wasted you are pretty much the same as the rest of us, a wasteful consumer obsessed with attaining stuff.
It was a good post though dude with some interesting ideas, I have no doubt you would be a fun person to get stoned with, speaking of which you should make sure you have company if you are going to take Mushrooms it will stop you doing anything daft like thinking you can fly or writing astoundingly long forum posts
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Porky Gorky wrote:I assume my customer are off spending their L$ on novelty valentines crap in one of those silly shops that looks like a cake or something. :smileyvery-happy:
Thats totally unfair - none of my Valentines crap can be described as novel.
It is my dream that one day all SL stores will look like cakes, this will encourage sales amongst those that choose not to purchase from The Marketcake
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This sounds interesting, can you tell us a little more?
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Adrian Harbinger wrote:
With regard to the question of monetary jurisdiction, it is risible to argue that Linden Dollars are not based on their proportional value in US Dollars. When one can purchase virtual goods or services with, not only Lindens that may be acquired with legal US tender, but via PayPal (real world bank account or CC), then I can assure you that those purchases fall under to the commerce laws that pertain to transactions with that legal tender.I agree, I really didn't want to get bogged down with this 'is it real currency argument' because I don't think it has any relevance, if breedables were really breaking any consumer protection laws they would have been stopped already even if we were trading with jellybeans.
Ilyra claimed that Linden Dollars were legal tender which they are not and I think that had to be pointed out.
Adrian Harbinger wrote:
In short, 'breedables' are simply capitalism at work, albeit capitalism in its lowest form; that which feeds at the bottom of the gene pool. But hey, it's just business, right?I like this so much, I think I am going to put it in my profile! :smileyhappy:
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Ilyra Chardin wrote:Thank you Gadget.The question of whether there is a legal precedence that US law overrides TOS implies that a purchase online with US dollars is unique, which it is not. Purchasing "cartoon" items on marketplace falls under the same existing laws as any web-based purchases of any software, electronic media, etc.
So please let us know when you start your legal action against breedable creators - I will be watching with interest
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Gadget Portal wrote:I didn't say they were illegal. I said purchases on the MP use real money and have to obey real laws.
and the point of saying that was?
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Zanara Zenovka wrote:I've regularly had for sale items set themselves back to not for sale, but I've never seen one change prices.Is there any chance you could have another prim vendor in your region set for that price, something left behind from building? Like maybe a second copy behind the first, or in another location? You could use a prim hunting gadget to search your shop by object name maybe?
This seems like the most likely explanation, I have had this a few times, usually I end up selling something for L$10 because I didnt change the price properly when set for sale, or I meant to set to show in search
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The last week has been pretty dreadful for me, but prior to that things were fine, I put it down to monthly pay packets, especially at this time of year when everyone is skint
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Gadget Portal wrote:Purchasing an item on the marketplace with US dollars via PayPal and/or credit card gives it a US dollar value. Common sense, really. You'd have to be an idiot to think the TOS overrides consumer protection laws for purchaes made with PayPal or credit card. Purchases in-world can be argued a bit more.
And yet those same consumer protection laws havent been used to stop sales of breedables, might this be because no law has been broken?
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Ilyra Chardin wrote:As long as items on Marketplace are given in and sold with linden AND US dollar values that sale constitutes a real purchase with real money. US law would, in this case, override TOS.
You have some legal precedent you are referencing here? experience in the legal profession perhaps?
Ilyra Chardin wrote:With respect to the scheme - people who entered the "breedables market" early were able to auction off / sell the offspring for what they considered large sums of linden dollars. Follow on enthusiasts, seeking to make money in this market, found the market saturated and did yield a return on investment.Yes, there are those that bought them for the sheer joy of owning and breeding pets. But a large number, caught up in the "hype" that was hitting groups where people advertised auctions, bought them thinking they could earn an SL living this way. As groups moved on to newer type breedables, those late entries into the market found they had costs for their purchases and for food and did not get the return on their investment that they had hoped for.
Thank you for your potted history of Breedables in Second Life which is of course a completely invented fantasy totally unsupported by any evdidence and like the rest of your posts here is devoid of any actual facts or even any experience.
Once again you seek to perpetuate the myth that 1000s of breeders were duped into buying pets, and this duping happened not just once but several times over the last 2 and a half years
Ilyra Chardin wrote:Does this fit the exact definition of a ponzi or pyramid scheme - no. But it's close enough. And while not everyone is hyping this as a means of earning an SL living, enough are in various groups and circles all over SL to raise these concerns.Caveat Emptor
Close enough for what? - close enough for an ill informed drama queen to make up stuff in a community forum? - it would seem so. This idea is almost as ludicrous as you Heroin dealer comment
As I pointed out, and backed up with facts there are almost no similarities whatsoever, it isn't even close to a Ponzi Scheme by any real and sensible definition
Have you ever actually seen a breedable pet, or spoken to someone who owns one?
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From the TOS...
5.1 Each Linden dollar is a virtual token representing contractual permission from Linden Lab to access features of the Service. Linden dollars are available for Purchase or distribution at Linden Lab's discretion, and are not redeemable for monetary value from Linden Lab.....
.....You acknowledge that Linden dollars are not real currency or any type of financial instrument and are not redeemable for any sum of money from Linden Lab at any time. You agree that Linden Lab has the right to manage, regulate, control, and/or modify the license rights underlying such Linden dollars as it sees fit and that Linden Lab will have no liability to you based on its exercise of this right. Linden Lab makes no guarantee as to the nature, quality or value of the features of the Service that will be accessible through the use of Linden dollars, or the availability or supply of Linden dollars.
And while I am here this is what a Ponzi scheme is...
A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to its investors from their own money or the money paid by subsequent investors, rather than from any actual profit earned by the individual or organization running the operation. The Ponzi scheme usually entices new investors by offering higher returns than other investments, in the form of short-term returns that are either abnormally high or unusually consistent. Perpetuation of the high returns requires an ever-increasing flow of money from new investors to keep the scheme going.
Breedables are not 'investment operations' and are not presented as such
Returns are not even an essentail part of the game and are not paid by subsequent investors. just by other people in the game.
The organisation running the scheme does not aim to or pretend to earn profits which it will return to its customers.
Users are not enticed by offerings of higher returns than other investments
All that is required to keep the game going is a flow of money, not an ever increasing flow.
It would be hard for you to be more wrong!
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Sassy Romano wrote:Yes indeed, my solution to the food thing was to:-a) first, get someone else to buy foodb) then get to just accept that a green horse (sick) is quite an ok state for what it really just a scripted set of sculpted prims (feel the compassion).c) then just store it in inventory where it has remained ever since
You have many finely honed skills Sassy, seems like Horse breeder isn't one of them :smileyhappy:
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Sassy Romano wrote:
Those are the salient points.If you don't want to buy food, don't buy pets that require it. It seems to me that those who buy the breedable ones are those who intend to try to make a profit by selling them, otherwise why would anyone buy that particular type?As I see it thats half the story, i think a large part of the market just likes to have animals to care for and enjoy playing the game of genetics to see what they can get, if they get something rare and valuable, the fact that its rare is more important to them than fact that its valuable, although they obvioulsy like that too. If you ask in any breedable group people are under no delusion they will all tell you that you probably won't make money in breeding.
The other half are as you say in for the profit, and also because they like to have their businesses to run even if they dont make huge or even any profits, but theres lots of businesses like that in SL. It was this aspect I believe that brought on the meteoric rise of sion chickens, all of a sudden residents with no creation or coding skills could take part in commerce.
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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:
Wrong... you are forced to buy food, salt, treats, and medicine to keep your "pets" healthy. If you don't buy them , they will get sick and then you can't do anything with them...I am not wrong there is no 'force' involved, again you are trying to present the idea that 1000s of users are repeatedly tricked into buying animals they didn't know they had to feed, this just isnt the case
Drake1 Nightfire wrote::
you didn't have to buy food for Tamagotchi. i had 8 of them.They used a different business model, find out more about it by asking your parents if they felt their $150 was well spent. The comparison I was making was the nurturing aspect of both games which you obviously understand, if your 8 Tamagotchis had running costs met by the manufacturer or had they given birth to new Tamagotchis that you could sell to your friends, also with running costs met by the manufacturer, the business model would no doubt have been different
Drake1 Nightfire wrote:
And that money went directly into the creators pockets and was turned back into USD.. invalid point.Its interesting that you are able to dismiss a reasoned argument backed up with statistical documentary evidence as an 'invalid point' based on a few words you have just made up, you have absolutely no evidence whatsoever to support such a claim and clearly no idea whatsoever how the breedable markets work. I would say that you have made an invalid point, but calling it a 'point' at all is doing it far too much justice
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There are some strangely intolerant views being expressed in this thread from posters that really havent even tried to understand how the Breedables market works. I wonder why people so against something which they have clearly had so little contact with.
Breedables are a game designed to provide entertainment for the users and profit for the creators, there is aboslutely nothing wrong with that, you could describe every item set for sale in Second Life in the same way.
No one is forcing anyone to continue to buy food, the overwhelming majority of people are not tricked into buying a pet only to find out later it needs feeding, the people who are really into it will have calculated the cost of producing offspring down to the last L$ and since food sales are the creators income, these parts of the game are obvioulsy well advertised. If you bought on a secondary market and didn't realise what you were getting into, just join the relevant advertising group and sell the animal, you never know you may even make a profit.
The fact that animals can die if not fed is an essential part of the game, the users enjoy having an animal that they need to care for, idiotic?, sad? - 76 million Tamagotchi users got their enjoyment in the same way, and of course this nurturing type mechanic is used in many other games, The Sims, Farmville, Tycoon series, Catz series to name a few.
Breedables bring real life currency into Second Life, most breeders enjoying buying and selling on the secondary market, and from time to time they make a killing, big lumps of L$s that they may just decide to blow on your products. if you look back at the transaction statistics for summer 2009 you can clearly see the huge spike when Sion Chickens reached their height of popularity, an extra $100,000 USD was brought into Second Life in one month alone.
People playing breedable games rent land, by stuff to make it look nice and spend time and money here in SL, we need as many of this type of resident as we can get.
Like all good games breedables have what may be described as 'addictive' qualities, this means the creators have worked hard to create something people want to play, comparing creators to heroin dealers who prey on uninformed residents is ludicrous nonsense.
Calling breedables a ponzi or pyramid scheme is a total misunderstanding of this type of product, there are several fundamental differences to the business model, not to mention the entertainment value. The accusation of fraud was sensibly withdrawn by the OP although repeated by another poster who didn't bother with the technicality of producing any evidence, anecdotal or otherwise, to support the charge
Whilst there has been a lot of talk about the evil money making of the creators, no one has taken a moment to consider the development and running costs which can be enormous. A successful system will require hundreds probably thousands of hours of development, almost always by a team rather than a single developer, and depending on the deal thats been struck, thousands of dollars can be invested to bring the product to market. This kind of risk deserves a high return.
Once released there is always ongoing development and a large emotionally connected user base to support and manage, it can be very hard work.
Most breedable systems to one degree or another are victims of their own success, I know from my own experience, going from standing on my own on my deck quietly creating things to suddenly having 700 users, who's enjoyment in the game I felt personally responsible for, was a huge shock. Creators are in a constant battle with the clunkiness of Second Life, sadly there are also one or two creators that don't seem to have the skillset to produce an efficient system so they went ahead and released an inefficient one. One such system was released recently and I am guessing it may be this that is plaguing the OPs sim.
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Stabbing in the dark a bit here...
This kinda feels like a browser issue, so try a different one.
The image size you are using is not the optimum so I think I would try one at the reccomended size(700 x 525). I don't think that should affect things like they are but just a thought.
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I think Porky is right, some specific questions would make it easier.
Unless you are very wealthy, I would suggest you start small and then grow as you need to.
If you check the official statistics you will discover there are 200 Gazillion stores here already, so think hard about branding, when your customers leave, you need them to know where it was they just went and to remember it for the future. This doesnt have to mean paying a builder hundreds of dollars to make a posh megastore (although it can), small and quaint or eccentric in character can work just as well, I have had great success selling from an enormous flying cake!.
Anyways, post some questions, plenty of people here will enjoy answering them.
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Just to make my position clear.
I don't like the idea of this legislation or the latest proposed versions of it. I also don't like, as I think you know, daft conspiracy theories and internet myths being quoted here as if they are facts, that is what my posts take issue with.
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Usive wrote:I was posting a balanced argument. The point being that letting people pirate will actually lessen the occurance of piracy more than anything else and that they can not prevent it anyways due to the existance of basic peer2peer software.
I dont think that you actually believe allowing something to happen will stop it from happening, how ?. I agree it can never be irradicated but peer to peer systems only work if someone tracks the files and provides links to them, that is exaclty who this legislation targets.
Usive wrote:And in response to your comment that SOPA will not affect blogs and such, as a mattter a fact it will. Sites that allow users to upload items free and at will will be required to view and OK EVERY SINGLE upload before allowing it to go through. This would result in the end of free services such as youtube, the increased costs of such monitoring will ensure this.
You see I really don't want to be rude and insult you but you make it so hard when you include statements like this one. Please go and Wiki SOPA and actually find out some genuine information about the thing you are protesting against, then please copy and paste the part of the legislation that demands that sites are required to view and ok every single upload. I can tell you now that you won't be able to because it just isn't there, I dont know where you have got this from, but it simply isn't true, it doesnt even have a faint smell of truth about it, its completely and utterly made up.
Its interesting that you apparently have access to Youtube's financial accounts and are able to calculate the potential revenue changes they will endure and predict their imminent demise. Perhaps you would like to share some of the actual facts and figures that led you to this conclusion or dare I suggest, that again you have no facts or figures and again are repeating a bit of hearsay that you think sounds good and scary.
Usive wrote:In regards to the media, I was saying that it helps prevent piracy, not that SOPA would damage the functionality of media........And in response to your comment that SOPA will not affect blogs and such, as a mattter a fact it will.
Errr, so it will or it won't affect the media? You dont seem too sure, just as a reminder this is what you actually said....
SOPA/PIPA are attempts at global censorship. the U.S. goverbment already controlls our news on tv. The day is fast approaching when most if not all broadcasting will be done on the internet. The government simoly wants to regain the absolute controll it used to have over it's citizens knowlege and organization
So according to you in the above statement you are making the point that the media helps to prevent piracy and you aren't suggesting that media operations will be adversly affected by SOPA. I have to say that is not the meaning I drew from this statement.
Usive wrote:And your argument about the software companies loosing money was nullified by me statement which pointed out that almost any program that has any kind of online function can not be pirated.And as for the bands, plenty of great artists are embracing the torrent sites and openly upload thier music (And I'm not talking 3rd rate bands, I mean younger upcoming bands). They charge more for thier performances instead and having gone to a couple of these myself I can tell you, they make that money back.
Ah so you don't just handle Youtube's accounts you are apparently the financial consultant for a number of bands and as such are in a position to talk about their profitability too, please give examples of the running costs for an up and coming band, along with their profits from record sales, showing these profits reduce over the time and be replaced with profits from live perfomances. Ok maybe thats a bit over the top, please provide one single actual checkable fact that supports this argument.
Usive wrote:P.S. You think reason 4 is poppycock? I buy a product, take it home, and the activation key they charged me for is crap, and thier customer support is flooded by people with the same issue, so I go find my own solution.
Yes of course I do, and you know it is too, you can throw in as many feeble excuses as you like, stealing is still stealing, even with the highly unlikely scenario you give above. If I am driving past your house and my car breaks down I dont then have the right to steal your car because it happens to be close by, I can't vist the local Ford dealership or drive to their Dagenham plant and help my self to a new one either. My rights as a consumer demand that Ford provide me with a car that is as described and is fit for purpose, if it isn't I have the right to complain and they are obliged to satisfy my complaint. Even if they sold me the worst most useless heap of scrap of a car ever at no point do I have the right to help myself to a new one.
If you would like to put this to the test give 20th Century Fox a call and tell them you have just illegally downloaded a copy of Titanic because they didnt have it available in Blockbuster, make sure you leave your name and address I am sure they will get back to you, although I doubt they will be calling to tell you its fine you stole their movie especially if Blockbuster was busy.
The thing that really winds me up is that these exact same nonsense arguments are what copybotters use to justify their dirty deeds here.
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Breedables... Really?
in Merchants
Posted
Describing the perfectly legitmate act of creating an entertaining product that other residents love to buy and enjoy as 'taking advantage of suckers', in the Merchants Forum is frankly disgraceful.
As I have pointed out many times now the vast and overwhelming majority of users have not been suckered into anything, this is just some perception that you have invented based on what is clearly extremely limited or more likely non existant contact with breedables and the breedable community. Your complete arrogance over this issue is quite astounding, as apparently you are the only one who has spotted this great con, while 10 thousand blissfully unaware breedable owners log on every week to enjoy their pets and be further taken advantage of. Perhaps you can explain why you consider yourself to be a greater judge in this issue that so many other people?.
Here it seems you are accepting that no laws have been broken "YET", so your objection to Breedables is what exactly? You havent bought any, you don't know anyone who has any, and yet you apparently know all about what a terrible rip off they are, isn't it time to admit that you bit off way more than you could chew by entering this debate, and actually you have no idea what you are talking about.
Please explain specifically what is "unethical" about breedables
I am not going to bother repeating the contents of my last post, since you were incapable of reading it the first time, but just to remind others at no point have I presented a "Legal Tender" argument as a defence. My point throughout has been that there is nothing to defend.
Someone incorrectly stated that Linden Dollars were Legal Tender, I pointed out that they are not and produced a nice quote to back this up, rather than admit to being wrong Adrian has decided to overlook this and try and twist the argument into something else.
No it's not your problem, you don't and haven't owned any breedables, you don't know anyone who has any and since you don't actually have any listed products you don't compete with them in any way, I wonder if your own total failure to be part of the business community here is the reason for your weird bitterness towards those who are amongst the most successful in that community.
I am not a girl - Dumbass
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