arabellajones
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Posts posted by arabellajones
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Mazidox Linden, on the Lab Gab, may have just described what is causing the problem. The older crossing code used to have the user and vehicle arrive in a predictable order. With the revised code, the slow half of the process can happen faster than the fast half, the two events happen out of order, and something breaks. This was very roughly half an hour into the Lab Gab. The context starts a little sooner, the shift from the very tightly-controlled data-centre network, but start listening at 30:00 and you get get what matters.
It will get sorted. They know about it.
It doesn't invalidate the old LSL code. Some of the problems described here from code still using old functions won't vanish but this bug will be sorted.
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11 hours ago, Rolig Loon said:
FWIW, the rail system in Bellisseria follows the same standards for scale and guide prim placement as SLRR rail beds elsewhere on the grid, so SLRR-compatible trains should all run there with no problems. The few trains I have tested there all seem to work fine so far.
Yes, it would be hard to make a full-featured train as a single object, because you'd still need child prims for anything animated (like rotating wheels) or emitting particles (like smoke) or extra passengers, but you could certainly use way fewer links than the old prim-based trains. With luck, that would translate into lower L.I. too, as you point out.
Animated parts is a different problem to what I described.
I can see a possibility with Mesh for simple wheels, for wagons and coaches. There are some things you can do with the UV mapping in mesh. I know I did this for four distinct areas on one model, UV mapped to the same complete square face. Two were opposite-handed and needed the UV mapping flipped left for right. Quite a few old prim-things use a rotating texture, and rolling-stock wheels are often not spoked. The Mansell wheel is one example of a disk-like wheel which could be modelled this way, but you have to do your research. There´s a gap in Wikipedia for types of railway wheels.
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I don´t have the talents to sort out the scripting problems for vehicles. I hope some recent strips are getting updated, but some are very old, and may not be.
It seems very obvious to me that, however different the new generation is, it must be compatible with existing systems. The most obvious instance is the SLRR system, the Guide rails in general, and the modified system being built on Bellisseria
There has a lot been done since some of these systems were originally designed. There is Mesh, and a plethora of new scripting. In this thread I started by reporting on a new error. I could have made a wild guess as to what the problem is.
While I was throwing ideas around I noticed a few things about trains.
1: The current guide code has to be in the root-prim of a multi-prim linkset. I could build a model as one mesh, but it wouldn´t work. It looks like it needs to be two prims.
2: A good mesh model can still be only one prim, which should make some things enormously simpler. Even with a high LI, an item can still be only one logical prim for animation.
3: A mesh object can easily have half the LI of an equivalent old prim modem, and a lot of rail vehicles are prim models
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The nominal scale in Second Life is often nothing like the avatar scale, but you can do some re-scaling in-world after import. It can get complicated. The Import process does have a scale factor. but that just seems to push up import costs. It can be useful to tweak rigged mesh a few per cent, but better not to need it.
You need to have Modify permissions on a mesh somebody else provides, but sometimes you have non-modify from a script or texture, while the mesh can be re-scaled.
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We do really need the VRC scripts updating. The most recent I know of are 2015. I did make a wheel-animation script, using a timer loop, and there is a VRC-derived script being sold by a merchant, but the problem is new enough that I doubt there are fixes anywhere. I am not sure there are current reliable scripts for any vehicle yet
The different Bellisseria land permissions also affect what's possible.
I am trying. I am wondering if the original script creators are still in SL. And a lot of vehicles are using badly-designed models of dubious origin. I was able to modify one to get rid of a lot of detail. How many people want to drive around with a hidden high-detail engine? What I was using worked well, but it uses the everyday scripting that now seems to be broken.
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Hopefully Group Chat is working now, there have been a couple of last-minute scheduled maintenance sessions this week. What I have seen is a big improvement, and the long-running Status warning has been closed. The Lindens are still monitoring, there's enough stuff going on that they can't be 100% certain about anything on the Grid.
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I can't say I am happy about the way you are announcing "scheduled maintenance". Check the timestamps here.
https://status.secondlifegrid.net/incidents/fh15lwqyz09
Scheduled maintenance for 10am PST, announced at 10:05 PST, and begins 1 minute later at 10:06 PST.
This might help...
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The Tuesday RC Restart notice was cancelled.
https://status.secondlifegrid.net/incidents/p36bn1s1p6p6
I am not in a good mood, too many people I know have died this week. Is it too much to hope for competence?
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16 hours ago, Sayrah Parx said:
The additional risk is that it could happen at any time, on any day, without more than 5 minutes notice. It's bad enough to only get 5 minutes notice within a certain time window on a specific day. I think a good rule to start with would be 10 minutes warning for every hour in the window. So a during a 3 hour window there should be at least 30 minutes warning. A 24 hour window should have at least 4 hours warning.
Sometimes, these windows take an incredibly long time, I am not sure a rule like this can ever be useful. But 10 minutes rather than 5 minutes, outside of a clearly announced window would help. I don't think we have the infrastructure for that, some sort of All-users IM channel which can't be turned off, and that could be so easily abused. Could some future Linden Lab start selling ad space on such a channel? We just don't know.
Linden Lab need to have a good look at their infrastructure supporting restarts, but we can't expect that before Christmas.
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They have just cancelled the scheduled restarts for today, Tuesday 2nd November.
https://status.secondlifegrid.net/incidents/p36bn1s1p6p6
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35 minutes ago, animats said:
It is invisible to most users. Right now, if you drive around on mainland roads, you're crossing from sims hosted in the Linden Lab data center in Arizona to sims hosted in the northern California Amazon Web Services data center. And back. You probably won't notice.
I am not talking about a region crossing. Are you changing any part of the vehicle during the region crossing? Currently, during region crossing, events may be sometimes happening out of order. Sometimes it involves a Cloud region, sometimes not.
Are you saying a Cloud uplift works perfectly every time? Are you willing to take that chance if you're building something?
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4 hours ago, animats said:
From the last server user group meeting, the plan was to "uplift" about 2000 regions each night. So it should be done within two weeks.
That is going to make things interesting for folk in some parts of the world.
As I understand it, the uplift process can't be invisible. Maybe not, strictly, a restart, but there's some risk of losing changes. We haven't even been told we should be careful about making changes at some particular time of day, other that these ambiguous restart warnings.
2 days per week at 2000 per day, doen't feel silly as an Uplift rate, call it 5 weeks, but it's too much like mushroom farming: kept in the dark and fed on bull*****.
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Anyone who thinks SLRR and VRC scripting won't work for trains in Bellissaria is just WRONG!
Because of the way the land is set up for the track, multi-vehicle trains don't work. A train had to be a single linkset, bending in the middle. There are some which do this.
What I have experienced suggests a reason why the Bellissaria signal system may be failing. The new region crossings are introducing scripting failures which may be linked to unpredictable events in region crossing. Some stages in the process may being completing in an unexpected sequence. (guesswork here). This can lead to trains vanishing in mid-section, and that will mess up the signalling.
This problem is happening everywhere, not just on rail. It may be happening more often at times when the concurrent logins are peaking. It's not the older style of bad region crossing where the avatar can be sitting in a region corner for a long time, or the vehicle jumps half-way across the region.
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In recent days, after building a mesh locomotive using the rather old VRC scripts, I have noticed some new errors on crossing from region to region. They seem to be a little more likely in region-corner situations, but don't seem to have any correlation with use of the Cloud.
The error message refers to llStopAnimation and says the Agent is not found. The vehicle movement stops, and there is no apparent change to the avatar using the vehicle.
I have seen somewhere a mention of the current faster region-to-region transfer process leading to some events happening in an unpredictable order. This seems to fit. If the avatar is in an unknown state when the script does a check, I can see how what I see could happen.
Standing an re-sitting does fix things, but sometimes, while the "Stand" button and "Stand-Up" right-click option are available, they're not working for a few seconds.
The way that LSL works, I am not sure I could add a delay or other check to the script which would cover this situation.
I have seen similar events with other vehicles, using established scripts I don't have the permissions to read.
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14 hours ago, Aishagain said:
I suspect that also...what makes me think otherwise is that it has not (as yet) been either Ninja edited or otherwise ammended. Sure it might be automated. Am I then to assume that no one at LL has noticed the error?? I don't like to think about what that says about the Lindens on shift.
It's a weekend. I can imagine some limits on who can edit a Status announcement. It doesn't look good, but it could be one of those edge cases.
But there should be a better routine process, even if there is an automatic weekly post here that reminds people of the normal timing and provides a hook to hang more precise info on. Something like:
"We wish to remind Residents that sim servers are regularly restarted in two blocks on Tuesdays and Wednesdays, for a variety of reasons. More complete details of what to expect in the coming week will be posted to this thread later."
And then they will still ignore the paying customers.
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There are two announcements about a possible rollout next week, RC channels only. One for Tuesday, one for Wednesday. I suspect a typo in the first to be posted.
https://status.secondlifegrid.net/incidents/p36bn1s1p6p6
https://status.secondlifegrid.net/incidents/grpp7zhm3t1v
I shall be keeping an eye open for restarts both days, though I hear there's some sort of election happening next week.
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I did a little bit of wandering around yesterday, and any mainland region is likely close to another running on the Cloud. A roughly 1 in 10 chance of a region being on the Cloud, and a possible 8 regions adjacent to each Mainland region. At the moment we have the domain name in Help>About as a clear sign, there are also tools which report server-version changes, and the Cloud regions are the only ones on 551155.
The way server code and physical hardware are arranged could affect the apparent randomness, but random surveys that aren't are a well known problem in the science of statistics. I have a tiny sample size, and I spotted about twice the number of Cloud regions than a crude 1 in 10 would imply. My considered judgement on that is "So what?"
Things such as the weekly sailing, flying, and driving events easily pass through a hundred regions, and it would be remarkable if none of them were on the Cloud.
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6 hours ago, Fritigern Gothly said:
How do you figure? It's only LL who will change the domain name for the uplifted regions. How I read your post it's as if you expect region owners other than LL to want their own domain name to point at their region.
If that's what you mean then I can already tell you that this won't fly.We're not Amazon Cloud customers. Linden Lab is, just one small corporation using the Cloud. How many times have you seen anything on the net which you can only access with an amazonaws.com domain name?
I'm a little surprised that Linden Lab are openly using that domain. They can figure it out how to use their own domain-name for the current servers on that server farm in Arizona. They were doing it back in the days when servers were in several locations across the USA.
Putt's Law would fit, though it's far from the only explanation.
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I have seen reports that the domain name used for servers on the cloud may change. When you think about it, Amazon will have a lot of customers using their cloud who want to be able to use their own domain name. It can take a little setting up to use two domain names for the same IP address, and the amazon name might default to a specific port to give them secure access for maintenance. And now I can't find what I saw. But what I recall is that the cloud serves will still use a distinct domain name.
So I know a few regions that are on the cloud. If there is a new domain name, I can check. But this is all pretty routine internet stuff.
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When is anything ever random? Oh, come on guys, it's quantum all the way down.
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There's a message out in status. I read it to mean that more regions are being uplifted today, from the position of the word "today".
"We will be performing rolling restarts for regions that have been Uplifted today beginning at 11:45 AM PDT. Please refrain from rezzing no copy objects and remember to save all builds. Please check this blog for updates."
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It looks as though there is a steady trickle of migration after the few hundred of last Tuesday. It would be worth knowing how many there have been.
My guess is six weeks to get the migration finished, because of possible server fixes and Christmas/New-Year/Thanksgiving/Election, an average of about 4000 per week. Every working day would be about twice what we've had so far.
It gives me the same feeling as current British politics, a rather indigestible lump of change and chaos descending on us through a failure of planning and leadership.
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On 10/17/2020 at 10:48 PM, RowanMinx said:
All the games you listed have objectives, scores, incentives and such. Explain what the objective or goal is in SL. How does one score points? How does one win?
Although entertainment is also an word used for games, it's also used for movies, tv, bird watching, none of which are classified as games. Your.description of game does not fit the parameters of SL. Just a fact but call it what you'd like. As you said, your opinion.
I sometimes say that Second Life is more like a stadium. There are just so many different things that can happen in a stadium, far more than just games. I've been to a corporate AGM that was held in a meeting room which is part of the local soccer stadium.
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I'm guessing, but "a few hundred regions" and www.gridsurvey.com reports 24979 total regions, so around 2% of regions transferred to the Cloud today.
None of the places I usually visit are on the list.
The Grid Drives, a weekly event, usually cover around 150 regions,and so might see 3 regions on the Cloud.
I am more likely to see problems from the DST change in Europe, which takes lace on Sunday..
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It's worth remembering that with a substantial number of users from the EU, Linden Lab are subject to EU law on Personal Data. So are Amazon. They have to maintain competent security, no matter where they are.
I do have doubts about the blanket licence for everything we create, because it's not limited to the purposes of Second Life. In theory, they could take all the 3D models I have made and uploaded and sell them on TurboSquid. And that is why TurboSquid doesn't allow you to take content from there and upload it to Second Life.
That current set of terms and conditions is huge and I sometimes wonder if any lawyer, never mind us, can be sure what's in there. It's not just Linden Lab, you should see what Amazon claims to be able to do when you use Kindle Direct Publishing. And I have to do tax paperwork on top of dealing with Amazon.