Question about the Mesh signup process

[Mellissa Gothly]

First off I just want to say what I write is not a complaint, I simply want to understand these choices better, thank you.

 

I was signing up for mesh today after I built my first mesh project (I know, wrong order). However when I went to upload as I expected I had to go elsewhere to sign my account up for it, which I would understand as I expected you would need to sign an agreement. But besides what I expected I also noticed you needed payment information, in which I do not understand at all.

First question regarding this is that is this part of the process a permanent option? Because I have no intentions of providing personal details, however I would provide other means of payment if this is the case (A tax on sales, etc). Someone may point out if I am being naive or biased but I personally take this option as discouragement from Linden Labs for artists to upload their work, as for some of us out there we do not like providing sensitive details across the web, and I often help out others in world to raise funds for my projects. I ask this because I understand Mesh is relatively new to Second Life and like any company would I guess they would not want the risk of users uploading content aiming to violate laws and cause Linden Labs a bit of a rustle, but I just wanted to know if this is permanent, because I can wait for this feature to be lifted.

Now the main reason this is not a complaint is because I can simply use my construct as some form of a blueprint and recreate it using the tools provided in world, However I was looking forward to using the mesh tools that had recently been provided.

Now this next part is only a question, and I am not condoning it in any way, but would passing my created mesh files to another user activated with mesh abilities against the rules? I myself have not read the ToS since around 2006 time so I would not know what this is, and nor did I deem it necessary to read the rules on Mesh if I cannot be activated. Of course Both users involved would follow the rules provided to ensure no real or in world laws are violated.

I thank you for your time in reading this and I hope my content did not offend or annoy anyone. Please treat me as new to this because although I have been a Second Life user for a while I have not used Mesh content uploading before, nor have I made a forum post (I don't think). If I have inadvertently caused anyone any offence please mention the offending part and I shall remove it. I know half of this was probably waffle but I am nervous about asking in fear of stepping out of line and being banned.

Post summarised: Will the payment information needed in the mesh sign up process be permanent and is it against ToS to either pass work on to someone else to upload or collaborate with them in uploading.

 

Thank you for your time.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

There is no reason to believe that the payment information on file will not be permanently required.  I have seen or heard nothing to indicate it is just temporary.  Requiring RL information and a creators license that you are required to purchase is pretty standard for importing content in most virtual worlds. Most virtual worlds also require you to submit your content to them for approval before you upload it, so it could be even more restrictive than it is.

In my opinion there is nothing that would stop you from passing your mesh to another person in RL who then uploads it.  You can do that already with textures and animations you create then allow someone to download the files from a server to their computer and import them into SL.  However the person who imports it will be assuming any liability that may exist in doing so and if they decide to use/sell the content without your permission in SL it would be very difficult to stop them as they will be shown as the creator, unless you have some sort of RL contract with them.  In fact it may cause you difficulty with people questioning your claim to be the creator if you sell it yourself since there is no way you can prove that using means solely available in world if the person who is shown as the creator doesn't cooperate.

[Maeve Balfour]

The requirement for mesh uploaders to have their payment information on file is a permanent thing.

It's required to be able to identify residents who upload meshes to the grid. Why? Basically, it forces uploaders to "have skin in the game" as the former mesh team leader Charlar Linden said. Meaning, uploaders can be held responsible for what they upload. In the vast majority of cases, this shouldn't be a problem at all... it's designed to allow LL to hold users to account who deliberately upload and/or sell stolen mesh content (meshes ripped from games, lifted from Turbosquid etc). If the rightful copyright / intellectual property owners decide to take to task stolen content, LL will be able to point them in the direction of the offender(s).

I think it's a quite reasonable requirement, personally. It won't stop ALL fraud and illegal activity, for sure - those determined to steal and sell stolen mesh content will no doubt find ways around this. Looking around the Marketplace, there are plenty of offenders selling what I believe are dubious meshes, however, if the rightful owners decide to take legal action against them... they risk big slapdowns. Their loss.

I would hesitate to recommend having friends upload meshes for you. It just opens an entirely new can of worms - not saying that you would do anything wrong in the slightest, but the potential for innocent parties to be stung by uploading stolen meshes unknowingly is a big risk to be taking - as the originator of a mesh upload, they will be the ones held to account.

If you don't wish to have personal details on file with LL, I am afraid you are severely limiting your usage of mesh uploads. Your choice, though.

[Mellissa Gothly]

Thank you for your helpful responces, You both have helped me understand the requirement of sensitive details. As much as I don't understand the need for billing information I understand they need some form of solid evidence so they can hold the uploader viable for any legal issues. I suppose asking for a credit card is better than sending them a passport or a driving license.

So as long as both parties fully understand the rules and requirements of mesh uploading it should be realitvely okay? I did message the person I asked, informing him about the situation and I would read the standards part of mesh uploading to ensure I follow the rules and avoid getting him banned. Thank you guys you have both been very helpful.

One more, can anyone provide me a link to the in-world pricing of meshes?

[Maeve Balfour]

Glad to have been of assistance, Mellissa. Although I definitely don't condone getting others to upload meshes for you, as long as you create ALL your meshes entirely yourself, and don't infringe anyone's copyright or intellectual property, theoretically there won't be any trouble (but I'm no lawyer by any means!). Again, I must clearly state that I strongly disagree with this in concept, since your friend is still taking risks uploading content not created by his own hands.

Regarding your question with mesh pricing - I'm assuming you are referring to the cost of the uploads themselves? If so, the costing is based on land impact calculations during the upload process. This varies widely, dependent on many factors - mesh complexity, physics, render cost etc. Generally speaking, the lower in land impact cost a mesh is, the cheaper it tends to be to upload. Most of my mesh uploads tend to only cost around $11L or so, sometimes a little more depending on complexity. DEFINITELY far more cost effective than creating things via masses of sculptie objects - as an example, a relatively complex mesh boot I made (not properly optimised though) was only about $20L to upload... if I had attempted this with sculpties, I would have needed at least 20+ sculpties at $10L each. So mesh in this regard is by far more cost effective. Also, mesh efficiency in regards to land impact is rewarded with lower upload costs - a win-win.

:matte-motes-smile:

[Masami Kuramoto]

The payment info requirement for mesh uploads was introduced by request of residents participating in the mesh beta test. It was one of the most frequently discussed topics in mesh beta office hours. Statements saying that the initiative came from Linden Lab are not correct.

As a measure against copyright infringement, the payment info requirement proved to be largely ineffective. For the process of DMCA takedowns, payment info it is entirely irrelevant. If infringing content is taken down, the only way to restore it is to file a counter notice which includes a real world ID. At that point the uploaders have their "skin in the game" anyway, regardless of their payment info status.

Take it as a feel-good thing or a gesture of good will by LL to established content creators. When mesh upload was first announced, many of them feared a drowning of the in-world economy under a deluge of freebie meshes.

From a policy perspective, payment info for mesh uploads is inconsistent because the bulk of copyright infringement in SL still happens through ripped textures, audio clips and animations. Uploading these does not require payment info.