WITHER INWORLD BUILDING ??

[Maelstrom Janus]

I'm wondering if there are ever going to be any modifications, updates, improvements to the rather static inworld building system. Meshes may be fine and Im sure and it must be great for Linden labs to tell people to go off and find some random bit of software to create stuff to import ( also adding to the Lindens coffers) thus taking the onus away from them to provide the toolbox to create...

But the question has never been answered what about those of us who simply want to build using an inworld system of menus, rather than work out of world over a piece of software not being able to see the ultimate result until the money is paid and the piece imported....

I'm sure it must be an easier option for lindens simply to enable the import of items created else where rather than improve the inworld building system...I for example would love an added menu which enabled the creation of polygonal prims - ever tried making an exact sized equilateral triangle in sl, you need a mathematical formula to get an exact size....

What about being able to taper and slice prims along ALL axes.... What about a menu which relays the sizes of a triangular prims sides ??

Is the ability to slice a prim between two points  or curve a square edge prim beyond the bounds of acievability...

I never seem to be able to get an answer from anyone at Lindens about whats happening to the inworld building system and normally Im flooded with a mass of esponses from 'mesh heads' who seem to think we should just be happy to be getting meshes rather than expecting linden labs to provide some up to day and continually improved tools working with an INWORLD system standard to all sl users and which all builders have learned to use....

Call me old fashioned but I think a tier of 200 dollars plus AND a considerable premium fee rather entitles me to expect linden labs to be providing a system of building in sl rather than expecting me to find further software and then pay more to import what I make.....

[Fenix Eldritch]

I agree on some points - LL providing extensions to the build tools like modifiers that could help edit existing prims in different ways (or automate difficult manual tasks) would be welcome. But some things just aren't realistic.

For example, an inworld mesh editor is just not feasible with the current implementation... Of both mesh and SL itself. SL was designed to work with prims, so adding mesh capability even as static objects has been a monumental effort. A lot of the limitations on mesh as they are now are resultant from that. As an example, originally mesh objects could have their UUIDs changed to those of different meshes - like sculpts. But that turned out to cause too much chaos on the servers, so the mesh asset was hidden internally.

---

Maelstrom Janus wrote:

What about being able to taper and slice prims along ALL axes.... What about a menu which relays the sizes of a triangular prims sides ??

Is the ability to slice a prim between two points  or curve a square edge prim beyond the bounds of acievability...

---

Actually, yes the ability to do those specific things are pretty much  beyond the bounds of achievability. Or at the very least, beyond the bounds of practicality.  I asked a similar question focusing on slices being applied to arbitrary axes... I got some really informative answerers. Check 'em out, it's an interesting read.

http://forums-archive.secondlife.com/8/c6/357545/1.html

[Maelstrom Janus]

I think adding polygons to the build menu would add a new dimension to building, certainly on the sort of futuristic builds I like.... at the moment its ridiculous trying to create something as apparently simple as an equilateral triangle... trying to taper blocks to create polygons is pretty usless...trying to get the angles mathematically correct is hopeless because while the angles of triangles and polygons are fixed the tapering amounts dont seem to correlate to any set of angles...if they do I cant figure them out. If you do make a basic equilateral from a 50 m square as you know you dont get an equilateral with 50m sides - ridiculous... trying to get a set size equilateral witout complex maths is impossible.

I find it immensley frustrating that it's impossible to change the slice and taper axes.....its a pity some linden brains arent diverted to this....

but future lindens plans never ever mention anything to do with inworld building updates, the system is basically static and little different to 4 years ago.... what annoys me is to hear the CEO talking about in world creation...yes if youre a technical whizz...surely the way forward is to add to the inworld system anyone who builds KNOWS how to use....

[Berlin Brinner]

Morning Maelstrom;

I, too, wish the inworld building tools allowed more options for tweaking shapes. I am just a beginning art sculpter, using the inworld tools available to me, and it is definately a challenge to create what I visualize. Many times I begin, only to realize, what I want cannot be done, and have to scrap the idea.

That being said, I am curious to learn more about the programs that do 3D modeling. A friend, who works in this medium for a living, told me that I will be awed by what I can create and accomplish in these outside software programs. I must admit, I am a bit intimidated, by the new learning curve I will have to master, but excited to see the possibilities.

I do wish LL would expand our inworld tools, and agree with your post 100%, but I believe this is the way of the future and I must embrace the new technology.

[Knowl Paine]

My concern with mesh is that the program 3D Max is only about 10,000 x's more powerful than Second Life. I really don't think SL can handle it. I believe the desired idea is for Residents to fumble along making tiny useless trinkets and then "testing" for upload. If the Object doesn't render properly; too bad so sad, you gotta pay to play.

I've always held the belief that an object created Off-line is an excellent example of a Resident who spent many hours outside of SL. I am aware of the building limitations when working with regular prims. Prim dockers and positioning devices did an excellent job of making that build, I wonder if that Resident could actually position a prim by hand.

I agree that developing converter programs is an easy way out.

Building and Texture Forming should each have their own categories. Most of the texture forming questions are about upload problems(personal problems, machine specific). There are very few real buildings topics discussed here.

My knowledge of Servers is limited. How hard the server is actually "working" seems to be a matter of perspective. Every major corporation wants to reduce it's cost. Current limitations are purely a result of creating artificial shortages in order to increase profit. Code all you want, you will not hurdle this obstacle.

Every parking lot light at the shopping mall is on all night. The mall closes at midnight and all the people are gone. The purpose of the lights is to protect the Property, illumination for the people is a side effect, a fringe benefit. Any supporter of this alleged "power conservation effort" is completely full of crap.

Have a good day.

[Void Singer]

the reason there are cuts/slices/tapers missing from certain axis is because of the modeling method used to create the volume of a prim.... which is not to say that there aren't a few more possible, but all axes are not supportable for the modeling algorithm that SL uses.

A few more basics shapes are possible (IIRC some TPV's have implemented a few) but others would require addition hard coding to the servers and clients to be able to view them, adding overhead to the servers, and possibly bandwidth and physics. with the advent of mesh the idea seems essentially shelved in favor of the variety there. there are also effects on the basic script access to various parameters, which must be backwards compatible with currently available and in use items.

I'm not saying it's the correct decision, but that's some of the reasoning behind it. their focus is variety enablement via existing industry standard tools, over tool enablement of proprietary formats to increase participation of the larger community of content creators adding to the draw for larger internet community.

[Chronometria]

We are certainly seeing a situation where there are building disenfranchised residents. It used to be that a fancy builder used sculpts and that made them professional, but soon there will be a level beyond that with mesh, leaving normal prim builders even further down the line.

The message is that if you dont use some sort of external 3d modelling program, just dont build and thats not good for anyone. I can buy sculpts to give that extra level of realism to my builds, but that depends on finding the right ones at a reasonable price and many "builders kits" are priced far beyond reasonable.

What we may find is that when mesh appears, it doesnt catch on, because the vast majority of builders are still chugging along with the basic tools and making do with what extras they can scrounge from the skill level above them. Mesh is way up in the clouds for people still doing the odd "bolt on a sculpty".

When the results of this become apparent, then maybe the basic building functions will get a brush up and some improvement. That, after all, is what the majority of residents take the time to try and master (and note well, that many, many residents dont even get that far).

[Rufus Darkfold]

Neither mesh nor sculpties can be flexi.  Only regular prims can do that.   There, at least, remains a niche for those using only in-world tools.   The viewer does have some annoying limitiations there.   You can't see what the parameter change does until you stop editing the prim, and you can only do one prim at a time.

I have been developing a HUD to get around these limitations.  This works with a copy of the primset script in the root prim of the object being edited.   The HUD can query and set all flexi parmeters for a link set or any subset,  it also does color, light and target alpha params.  All parameter changes are visible instantly.   The ability to set the whole linkset at once is particularly handy for hair.  

In the interest of making residents less building-disenfranchised, I will offer this free and open-source.

Beta test will begin after Labor Day.