Very specific laptop requirements question

[Ellie Heartsdale]

Before writing this, I read prior blog inquiries re "laptops for SL", then checked Knowledgebase. I'm still uncertain on a few things, hope y'all might advise?

I got surprise $1200 yesterday , want to buy a configurable or off-the-shelf laptop offering decent Second Life performance. CANNOT use a desktop pc. Weight is irrelevant, would never run on battery, and can go back to LAN instead of wireless if it would help. I spend 2-3 hrs max time on SL, so hope to avoid overheating graphics card. I prefer 14",15" -15.6" screen. Budget is $1500 max. Questions:

1) Will SL run okay on a 64-bit Windows 7 O/S (w 4GB memory)?  It seems like MS Office suite, and other PC apps smoothly transition from 32-bit (I hope...).

2) No more integrated graphics! After reading Knowledgebase entry for laptops, I need to know: Are there any mid-range cards that I should avoid, that is, any Class 2 or 3 cards (per notebookreview site) that will NOT work for SL? There were footnotes on the  Knowledgebase page, warned against use of various graphics cards. Reason seemed to be that they hadnt been tested for SL, most were older cards, like Radeon Xpress, Fire cards. But footnote also warned not to use certain newer cards e.g. all "Quad"-named nVidia. Then I noticed a different Knowledgebase page which did include some of these cards in an FPS perf chart! I'm confused....

3) CPU: in Dec 2009, HP was selling a Pavillion model DV6t, quad-core with an i7 processor, price approx $1100, now unavailable.  Should I try to get Quad core and i7?  Is the SL viewer (as well as the O/S, clock etc) able to effectively utilize all that processing power?  Do I need to look for anything particular regarding FSB speed or L2 cache with Quad core and i7? Assuming I can even get it at my price point.  And what speed is appropriate for quad core vs core duo?  Lots of questions, I'll be grateful for a partial or general answer.

I have access to the HP, Dell and Lenovo EPP plans, and Fry's Electronics too.  One more thing: I don't want to buy Acer or Asus brand, but am indifferent between AMD vs Intel, nVidia vs ATI Radeon (I can't even spell them correctly ).

My current config for for Second Life: XP running on Toshiba Satellite  L25 laptop, single core Celeron 1.50gHz, Radeon Xpress 200M onboard graphics , total RAM  is 512MB upgraded it from 256MB) and a 40MB hard drive, my little bro  bought it new in June 2005.

Any suggestions will be appreciated. I can't wait to depart the grey non-rezzing world of my current laptop. Thank you!

[Faubio Alter]

1) yes

2) Do your home work, check them out in the KBs first before buying one. SL does have problems with some ATI cards and some high end cards most mid level cards should do the job but double check anyway. SL also has trouble with SLI and crossfire multi card systems. SL general lags behind in graphics and is far from state of the art in this regard.

3) I know of folks in world running I7 with no problems. Is it over kill sure? Yes. Will it be in four years, maybe not.

 

Use these suggestions at your own risk.

 

Message was edited by: Faubio Alter ........ here you go:http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Category:Hardware_Questions

[Veritable Quandry]

There is a list of current Nvidia mobile GPUs here.  For SL, avoid the Value and Mainstream GPUs.  The Performance GPUs will give medium settings in SL.  High Performance will give better visuals, while the Enthusiast cards will give high-ultra performance.

The Nvidia Quadro cards are not officially supported, but should run SL a little better than the Geforce cards they are based on.  The difference is a combination of better components and firmware that is tuned for best OpenGL performance, especially in applications that are designed to work with these specific cards...mostly CAD and other intensive 3D applications.  They are designed for workstations, and don't often show up in consumer models.

On the CPU front, SL is not very good at using multi-core CPUs, but that does not mean you won't see an advantage from having one.  Enabling multi-threading in the Advanced menu allows SL to use two cores.  On a quad, that means SL can take two, and the OS and other apps can run on the others.  Intel's new CPU series is a bit confusing, but essentially all of the Core i3 and i5 CPUs, as well as the Core i7s with a 600 number, are dual core with hyperthreading, while the remaining core i7 CPUs are quad core with hyperthreading (the OS sees each physical core as two cores, so they act as quad or octocore CPUs).  The i5 and i7 CPUs have turboboost, which allows them to shut down unused cores and speed up the ones in use.  This helps when you are changing between applications like SL that only use one or two cores, and applications that are able to use multiple cores effectively.  The Core 2 series do not have hyperthreading, and they can reduce speed to save power but they do not shift cores to speed up applications.  Right now, I would look for a Core 2 Quad or a Core i5 in a mid-range laptop.  That will give you good performance and multitasking, and should hold up better as more programs take advantage of multicore systems.

Newegg has a good selection in your price range.  This link is sorted for anything with a mid-range or better GPU, including both ATI and Nvidia.  If you play video games, then consider the ATI 5000 series GPU...it is the only DX11 chipset on the market right now.  If you do not game, and SL is your main use, an Nvidia GPU will do well.  My personal experience with Asus has been good, and they are well rated for reliability.  Their G series laptops are among the best value in gaming notebooks (I have a G51 with a Core 2 Quad overclocked to 2.4 GHz and the GTX 260m: this laptop is amazing in SL).  My personal experience with HP is not good, I will never buy from them again.  Your mileage may vary.  With the Dell EPP, you can look for a good deal on an Alienware m15x.  It is a well designed machine, and has an excellent cooling system.  If you are happy with your Toshiba, they have a couple of good models in your price range.  Gateway also has some good entry-level gaming systems, but if you want to avoid Acer, that rules them out.

Whatever you buy, get a good laptop cooler to go with it.  It will prolong the live of your laptop, and give you a much better experience in SL.

[Ellie Heartsdale]

Thank you both, Veritable Quandry and Ms. Alter, for your helpful advice regarding a laptop capable of giving me more of what I want from Second Life,  without costing an arm and a leg!  I followed your suggestions, trying to determine what combination of features would actually be useful and what would be overkill given the server-side and other constraints that are just facts of our Second Life.

Although I had my heart set on an HP Pavillion dv6t or dv7t in January, it was obvious by late Feb that the better choice for me would be one of these three:  Lenovo Y550P, Fujitsu NHLifebook, or Toshiba X505-Q860 Qosmio. I contemplated an HP Envy-1150NR (despite embarassing name!) because of the i7 processor,  metal alloy frame, and www.notebookreview.net assessment of it's "Class 1" graphics card. However, the card is ATI, either 5830 or 5850, and I was hesitant after reading comments about reliability etc.  Slight aside, but I wonder if some of the ATI graphics cards are more suited to high-end business users, whereas the nVIDIAs seem to do better with gaming applications? However, HP Envy was very expensive, even entry-level.

So I didn't go down the HP path, but nearly went with Lenovo.  Ideapad Y550P had some nice features at a good price point, including a spill-proof keyboard, sub-woofer, i7-720 processor w/ 6GB of DDR3 and nVIDIA GT 240M graphics card w/512MB dedicated memory. Unfortunately, there wasn't anywhere I could try out a floor display before ordering. Point became moot upon realizing that the model of interest was suddenly discontinued and pulled from shelves everywhere on the day before I was ready to buy!

The Fujitsu and Toshiba have similar specs. Because of my prior familiarity with Toshiba plus scarcity of Fujitsu products in my homeland, I bought a Toshiba Q860 last Saturday. So far, so good! No problems running Windows 7 in Second Life, and no software issues with 64 bit.  This is a lower-end Qosmio, with an i5-430 processor (I couldn't afford the i7), dual-core with 4GB DDR3 (2 Dimm), a fast 500GB drive, and a decent graphics card: nVIDIA 360M with 1GB of DDR5 memory.

After reading your suggestions (saw similar elsewhere once I knew to pay attention), regarding Second Life's disinclination to fully utilize two graphics cards, a single GPU generates quite enough heat, thank you! However, my DIY approach was to elevate the new laptop using six stoneware coasters, all on a stone, tile or wood surface, and the air seems to circulates okay. Similar thoughts about underutilizing power of hyper-threading from an i7-720 (or whatever follows 600).  My new laptop is very large and heavy (18.4" screen, maybe 10lbs?) but I'm fine with that, as I'm using it as a desktop replacement. And the 16:9 ratio display is wonderful with my impaired vision.  I was a bit concerned about high resolution screens with very small fonts, or so I'd heard, but I've adjusted the settings for my needs.  Works great for other apps too!  Maybe I can finally get SAS or SPSS to run decently on a home PC now....

I really appreciate the effort and care taken in responding to my question, particularly since it gets asked over and over again on these forums. Your input was immensely helpful to me.  Thanks again to both of you!  ;@)

[Veritable Quandry]

Glad to help.  Sounds like you found the right machine.