Should I do all my sizing before...

[Deezy Abruzzo]

Should I do all my sizing before I add vertices to the insides of my mesh clothing model.

I want to have the top insides of my mesh not look transparent so I copy the top part, scale, then join the two peices together.

Now i want to resize this clothing model to fit the standard sizing.  I know I have to adjust weighting after this. It seems there are vertices I am not able to weight properly because of the inside vertices.

Should i have sized everything first then added the inside vertices?

 

This creation process is getting longer and longer : |

[Rahkis Andel]

It shouldn't really matter...The avatar is a totally enclosed shape and yet it is weighted to move and bend without collapsing on itself. the inside verts of your clothes should do the same.

Try recalculating the normals of your mesh -- it's very likely when you created the inner faces, you created them flipped. That would definitely cause the problem you'r speaking of.

Edit: Select all verts and press Ctrl+N to recalculate normals in blender. I'm not sure what software you're using.

[Deezy Abruzzo]

Thanks Rahkis,

I thought I was supposed to flipp the inside vertices. Also I only connected the visible parts and left the part you would not see unconnected.  For example, I made shorts. At the bottom of the legs I copied about 5 vertices rows up and scaled down but i only connected the bottom loop where your legs come throw. I did not connect the top loop that you would normally not see.  Should I have connected them all ?

[Rahkis Andel]

A wireframe screenshot would help me visualize what you mean.

When you say "connect them all", I'm not sure if you are refering to an open ended object or duplicate vertices in the same object or something else.

[Deezy Abruzzo]

Its hard to see even in a screen shot. Basically it would like I folded the mesh inward up the leg.

There is a so called seem at the bottom leg opening where I connected the copied mesh but I left the top part unconnected about 5 rows up along the inside of the pant leg.  Is this bad procedure or is it ok ?

Weightpainting on this got alot more difficult than the original size I made.

 

 

[Rahkis Andel]

Sorry, when I said wireframe, I meant with wires enabled rather than wireframe mode. Like this:

Edit: Bah, hopefully that isn't too small to see.

[Codewarrior Congrejo]

i guess you mean the open end of the loops that go inwards.
no there is nothing wrong with not connecting these to anything from the outter vertices /faces/loops.

It would rather make the UV layouts a bit more complicated. Except you overlay them, and unstitch them etc. But let's keep it simple here =)

Bending a few loops inwards and having them end 'open / unconnected' is a very common way to do that. So it's all good. 

Regarding your sizing: it doesn't matter really 'when' you do it. Just the final weight refining should be done after changing the size again. In case you screwed things up: little tip - i end up often just unparenting the whole thing, and deleting all vertex groups and simply parenting and weighting it new. Gives you a better start point then trying to fiddle with already existing weights. Or just clear them from a certain part of the mesh and redoing them. It's a matter of just a few minutes.

Means: don't be afraid to start over when you feel something isn't wotking out. It's sometimes faster then trying to fix things by fiddling over certain vertices again and again =)

And if you copy and flip some polygons to create insides, keep in mind what Rahkis already said: select all polygons on the model, once you combined them and choose Mesh > Normals > recalculate outside. this will ensure you don't have wrong sided normals and thus invisible faces on these parts.

And yes you will need to redo the weighting on those flipped parts as well.  Especially when you copied and flipped them after you already had weights on the parts you copied it from. They will often behave like inversed so of course need to be tweaked a bit on this new area.

PS: if you find it hard to select these inner polygons /vertices. select faces from the outside and 'hide' them by pressing 'H' (and ALT+H to unhide ) this will give you easier access and less grids and vertices clustering your view.

[Deezy Abruzzo]

Hope this makes sense. NOt sure if this is how i am supposed to be doing it.. The innerts keep popping through the suface when i weightpaint.  I hope this is the wire you meant.

[Codewarrior Congrejo]

I'll point towards my last answer: yes you have to refine / readjust the weighting on the copied parts. If you copied and flipped already weighted parts then they will often not behave nicely right from the start. Mostly it's just small adjustements.

And maybe give them a tiny bit more distance to the outter faces. Lowers the chances of things poking through while in movement / animation. (especially when the loops are not exact on the same height and flow and correctly weighted)

And i usually give the inner areas a bit more 'heat' (strength for weights) then the outter parts. This ensures that they are being pulled stronger towards the bones - and less chances of them poking through.

[Deezy Abruzzo]

Thank you much for your time and guidance my friend.

You have helped alot

[Rahkis Andel]

Yes, that's totally fine.

I can see that there are some flipped normals, though. That's what those shading artifacts are. Either they are flipped normals or you have duplicate verts. You can select all verts (press A) and find "Remove doubles" in your toolbar (Press T for the toolbar).

You should check out Codewarrior's tutorial a page back on topology, though. You are going to have deformation issues with perfectly grid like topology as you have there. Plus it could use some heavy optimizing.

[Deezy Abruzzo]

LOL I know the legs are a mess

 

[Deezy Abruzzo]

Awesome advice, thank you!.... AGAIN :matte-motes-bashful-cute:

I will try it out once I get my patience back.

 

[Codewarrior Congrejo]

haha yw =)

And hey don't loose your patience, your new you are still learning, you are allowed to make mistakes. And i am afraid to tell you but some of these will also stay with you even when you know the whole drill already. There is just so much that can go wrong, but at some point you will at least know very fast 'what the issue' is instead of being stuck guessing.

See them as chance to learn, rather then having them discouraging you !

[Rahkis Andel]

I have made you a 10 minute pair of pants in Blender:

You can follow along with my 10 minute workflow demonstration to creating them yourself:

I've always wanted to make a video tutorial, so this workflow demonstration is kind of my first baby step towards that goal. I hope that despite the lack of narration, the annotations and screencast keys will be enough guidance.

The .Blend file is freely available in my public Dropbox as long as I feel like keeping it up. Use it however you wish with or without attribution. It can be useful to play with other's work first hand.

[Codewarrior Congrejo]

Cute lil video Rahkis. Made me chuckle (especially the repetetive rotations )
Good 'baby'-start (to use your expression)

You should add it to my topo tutorial. Because it's just another good proof of how little faces one needs, with the right topo,  to make certain shapes =)

PS: you can add music from youtube's list to it, in case you can't upload an own track along. (it's in the youtube video edit options. They have a fairly big list) Annoying side-note: their copyright protection stuff repetetive cancels my uploads with tracks friends made, telling me this would be an existing track of someone else. For the sake of it we even tried it with recording our own voices and randomly ending up with such fail-notice lol. Anyways, if ya wonna spice it acoustically up, just grab something from their list.

[Rahkis Andel]

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Codewarrior Congrejo wrote:

Cute lil video Rahkis. Made me chuckle (especially the repetetive rotations

)

Good 'baby'-start (to use your expression)

You should add it to my topo tutorial. Because it's just another good proof of how little faces one needs, with the right topo,  to make certain shapes =)

 

PS: you can add music from youtube's list to it, in case you can't upload an own track along. (it's in the youtube video edit options. They have a fairly big list) Annoying side-note: their copyright protection stuff repetetive cancels my uploads with tracks friends made, telling me this would be an existing track of someone else. For the sake of it we even tried it with recording our own voices and randomly ending up with such fail-notice lol. Anyways, if ya wonna spice it acoustically up, just grab something from their list.

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Thanks, I had no idea! I appreciate the feedback.

 

And also, that's a good idea -- I'll add it to your thread.

[Deezy Abruzzo]

Thank you Code, for all your insight.

[Deezy Abruzzo]

OMG Im a bigger noob than i thought. AWESOME Tutorial! I am gonna study this.

Thank you so much.

 

[Codewarrior Congrejo]

haha yw, and thank you too  =) and hey we all have been noobs at some point, no shame in that!

And as i see it we all still are. Especially with this matter you can never finish to learn. Every year new technology, new software, new choices and options.. so yes I'll bravely say we are noobs forever ; )