[Where are the "Fall Guys" and "Among Us" of SL?]

17 minutes ago, Arduenn Schwartzman said:

You want something, not me. You better start working on it then.

Why are you bringing this toxicity into this thread? Don't say you don't. Your "Hey, good luck! " is well understood. However, I think it has been made pretty obvious that my thread wasn't a "PLZ SOMEONE DEVELOP A MINIGAME I'M SO BORED" but encouraging the discussion about why this is extremely successful in a world like Roblox but nowhere near this in SL (you can argue that projectile combat systems could be understood as mini games while they are often part of something bigger, or that breedables were pretty successful.) So again, just to make sure you get it, too: I'm not demanding anything from anyone. Okay?

Mr Amore: Thank you for your insights, also the fact that there are no charges in Roblox to host these games is pretty interesting.

 

edit: ok, I get it. I took the chalkboard games as an example for a pretty bad user experience, and you're selling one of these. I hope it's clear that I didn't blame the creator, but it's likely just due to the slow server reaction

[Where are the "Fall Guys" and "Among Us" of SL?]

5 hours ago, Arduenn Schwartzman said:

It takes people like you, who take to heart that old adage:

"Ask not what SL can do for you. Ask what you can do for SL." - Abraham Lincoln

Interesting approach, to make this a question about generosity, about what you can do for SL. Sadly I believe this is not gonna work. I think the economic factor needs to be a driving force. And to return to the Roblox comparison, the successful one, this is what they prominently present on their homepage:

"Earn Serious Cash
Creators like you are getting paid for what they love to do. Our top developers are earning over $2M a year by providing in-experience purchases"

So I do think it's the economic factor that drives the Roblox games. but I would happily stand corrected.

[Where are the "Fall Guys" and "Among Us" of SL?]

1 hour ago, Lucia Nightfire said:

I haven't heard anything else from them since the June 21 interview.

I certainly haven't started to see any radically changes happening thanks to any newly acquired investment money. 😉

And that's where the growth reference was taken from.

Edit: Reading your post twice I feel like you want to question my remark that it was said that SL needs growth in order to secure new money. Actually he said as well that SL needs growth in order to stay alive at all. This is exactly what is said in the interview. This is what I'm recalling from my memory: He needs to be convinced that SL can grow before he puts new money into it. If this is really in doubt, and I didn't think it is,  we can surely go through the specific quotes tomorrow.

I just got the quote anyway. He talks about allocating resources between Tilia and SL. "we only have a certain number of resources, a certain number of dollars [...] if the resources lead to growth and engagement [...] there are unlimited resources that can be devoted to second life if second life is growing and engagement increases" at 32:50 in the video.

Growth is stressed so often. He uses the following analogy:

"if you throw a party it's probably 10 o'clock right now in second life. now I like parties that go till 6am, okay, and this one started at seven, at for, five, six or seven in the afternoon [...] I don't want this party to end at 10. I don't want this party to end at midnight, you know, I'm hoping, I don't want the party to end at all. [...] one of the things that I like to do at my party is have more people show up [...]" at 22:30

And because you say that you don't see any radical changes happening. It has been said as well, that sometimes change is needed, needed to stay relevant. I could find the quote for that, too, but actually this thread wasn't about this. It was simply about the question why SL doesn't offer mini games like Roblox does who is doing this very successfully. And yes, based on the fact that SL needs growth. But we can do that in a different thread if that is disputed.

[Where are the "Fall Guys" and "Among Us" of SL?]

24 minutes ago, bigmoe Whitfield said:

I love how infiroamtion spreads in SL,  people dont come and verify it with the blog or the community forums

Gosh, it was said in one of the recent interviews. I didn't hear it "in world". To be fair, I was at the moles interview in world, so the Roblox reference might have been dropped there, I can't remember exactly at which one. And I repeat my self, to clarify, it was said that they are looking into, for example, Roblox, to look at what others are doing. Because SL needs growth. At no point of time I said that anyone is going to copy Roblox or whatever.

[Where are the "Fall Guys" and "Among Us" of SL?]

39 minutes ago, Lucia Nightfire said:

What new CEO?

"Executive chairman". Sorry if that doesn't come down to "CEO". The one who has lots of the say

[Where are the "Fall Guys" and "Among Us" of SL?]

I've incidentally stumbled over "Among Us" clones for Roblox. I know that LL is looking into Roblox and what they can learn from it. That step is also based on what has been communicated by the new CEO, the premise that SL NEEDS user growth in order to secure new money. I've never played Roblox but I understand that it has A LOT of mini games, played by many players.

While SL has a few mini games itself, it's nowhere comparable to Roblox. Why is this?

A few thoughts:

- Something like "Among Us" is not playable at all unless you restrict the client's camera capabilities. It also can be hard to detect cheating in movement skill based games if you don't restrict what the user can do. It seems that RLV is a hard requirement, unless all of these things can be done without RLV in 2021.

- Server performance: I know that some are gonna say that the main problem is server performance. However, I did participate in games with 15+ players recently and found that at least movement was pretty flawless. However, then there are some games.. you might know the game where people draw on a board and others have to guess what they draw, the drawing process is just very, very bad because the server just doesn't respond quickly enough.

- Scripting capabilities: I've played scripted games where I thought.. ok.. this is a harsh judgement, but this was wasted time. The game can't be fun because the controls are just bad.

- Client's performance: This is probably at least reducing the potential player base or limiting what games could do. I know that some people just derender everyone else in order to get acceptable FPS. Maybe those games would need to limit what people are actually wearing by providing outfits or even complete avatars.

- Incentive to host a game: Who hosts these games in Roblox? I have no clue. In SL the incentive can easily be traffic. To this day there are games that pay people for bringing traffic. The question is, could there ever be enough growth considering sim prices.

- Interest in games: I'm aware that I've compared SL to Roblox and Roblox is populated by kids. However, it would be wrong to say that mini games only work for kids, proven by the 2 prominent examples.

 

What does it take to make mini games more popular in SL?

[Will Second Life ever add Third Person Shooter(TPS) Camera Angle?]

2 hours ago, Lillith Hapmouche said:

Is it? Oh.

You sound surprised, but SL offers a broad range of activities that can only be participated in in mouselook, from certain games all the way to combat.

[Name change privacy issues]

6 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Asking is not binding. 

Ok, you just keep bringing it up, and I keep bringing it up in return.

"This policy gives broad copyright permissions for snapshots and machinima, but asks that you respect the privacy interests of members of the community."

It's the same as "unless you disrespect user's privacy". You may keep claiming that your interpretation is right, I believe that my interpretation is right. Whatever you like.

 

[Name change privacy issues]

1 minute ago, Rowan Amore said:

They are granting you the right to take pictures of their content. 

Are we back to the point where I say "but please respect privacy" is in fact binding and you're gonna say it's not?

[Name change privacy issues]

2 minutes ago, Tari Landar said:

Please stop using stupid things like this as an insult meant to hurt others.

Sorry for having let myself down on their level and responding to polemics like "They always find ways of dancing around the truth without ever admitting to being incorrect. "

[Name change privacy issues]

Would you two please not all the time bring up two contradicting arguments and claim they both prove me wrong? Silent is saying that the person taking the photo owns the copyright by law, and Rowen says that LL grants the user a license (but they can only grant a license of something they own). It becomes exhausting.

[Name change privacy issues]

Why don't you make photos of books and sell them online, as you apparently own the copyright of these photos?

[Name change privacy issues]

If you think that taking a photo of a person IRL (in which case you own the copyright) is the same as taking a photo of the LL software (that is copyright protected), it's factually false. Nothing more to say.

[Name change privacy issues]

20 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

No, by law, it is not different. 

Yes it is, that is why posting screenshots of games is usually covered by fair use policy. You're taking a photo of someone else's (LL) game (unless you're implying that you take a photo of SL with the Nikon in which case it of course would be the same, but where would be the sense?? The game itself is copyrighted material and you can't just take a photo of it and do with the photo what you want, or as stated, can't let it exceed fair use policy)

[Name change privacy issues]

4 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Online photos and graphics are protected by copyright law, just like any other original work. The photographer owns the copyright in the images from the moment she creates them,

That refers to images posted online. If you shoot a picture of somebody IRL you have the copyright. If you pass them a copy, they could even be disallowed to publish it. I am fully aware of this. But This is about photos taken of LL software. This is different.

And I have to say this, but as you try to keep lecturing.. the fact that you're mixing these two up shows that you aren't a lawyer either.

[Name change privacy issues]

3 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

They grant license/fair use to the person taking the picture.  LL.doesn't have copyright.

You're saying that LL doesn't own the copyright ANYMORE because they granted it to someone else. You had said this before. And I will keep saying, as before, that the clause "but asks that you respect the privacy interests of members of the community." invalidates this granting of permission in my opinion. Now you CLAIM to be right about this, I don't claim to be right about this but I believe that my interpretation is more likely to be true. To make this a matter of understanding is false, it's a matter of interpretation. As it's the case with most legal issues. So feel free to continue to claim that you're right, if that's your understanding of a discussion.

[Name change privacy issues]

7 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

LL only "granted" that permission

I already responded to this, and I'm not going to repeat myself.

 

8 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Copyright laws and privacy laws are not the same thing

I'm not even sure who said that copyright laws and privacy laws are the same thing but implying that I said this is just dishonest.

 

9 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

So, please, do shut up, Emily.

I'm not sure which Emily you're trying to intimidate.

[Name change privacy issues]

7 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Don't worry about it. She keeps moving her goalposts so it doesn't matter any way.

I'm NOT moving goalposts when I'm just responding to different arguments brought up by different people.

The arguments that have been brought up were:

- Screenshots aren't copyrighted in the first place

- Screenshots are copyrighted but LL has granted total permission (contradicting even the first argument)

- Fair use policy allows publishing

- LL has no way to enforce anything on other sites

And I've responded to each of the arguments. I haven't shifted goalposts anywhere.

 

 

[Name change privacy issues]

2 minutes ago, Lewis Luminos said:

They're just suggesting that it's nice to be nice, that's all.

What you're saying is that LL says "please respect privacy but we don't really care if you do or don't." If that is your interpretation, that is fine, as I said. To me it doesn't make sense. It's fine to disagree here.

[Name change privacy issues]

4 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

they would have written it as a clause in the ToS and not politely ask. 

Just because you ask somebody politely to do or not to do something does not mean that you depend on the other's goodwill. If a club owner in SL comes to you and says "I would like to politely ask you to leave"... you're gone.

[Name change privacy issues]

Just now, Solar Legion said:

I am simply not interested in "discussing"

I've noticed. That's what your posts showed.

[Name change privacy issues]

1 minute ago, Solar Legion said:

Selective reading, confirmation bias and twisting of reality are quite the thing to try to confront, aren't they?

Sorry but you're just a troll. You're not contributing anything but your posts and reactions are about stirring up like "LOLZ ARE YOU STILL DISCUSSIONG THIS WITH THEM" "LOLZ TWISTING OF REALITY"... seriously, get a hobby.

[Name change privacy issues]

Just now, Lewis Luminos said:

On Linden-owned platforms, yes. Elsewhere, they have no say.

There are two things brought together that don't belong together. The matter of copyright ownership of the screenshot, and the matter of enforcement. If LL says they grant you copyright permission but ask you to respect the privacy, it's pretty clear that they say that they ONLY grant permission if you respect the privacy. Means, if you don't respect privacy, the permission wasn't granted in the first place. You can be of a different opinion here, that is fine.

Enforcement... As I stated earlier, there is little chance to take down content on shady servers. However, with a copyright claim, LL could purge sites from google search results. That is EASILY possible. And as no copyright permission was granted, there is the copyright claim. Now you can argument about fair use policy. According to my interpretation the malicious intent to disclose private information wouldn't fall under fair use policy, but I'm not a lawyer, and so is nobody else in this thread.

[Name change privacy issues]

1 minute ago, Lewis Luminos said:

The last part about asking to respect the privacy of others is exactly what it says - it's an ASK, not a LEGALLY BINDING COMMITMENT.  They cannot enforce it, except on their own platforms, because they have no jurisdiction on any other platform.

So I'm glad, finally we've agreed that there IS in fact a copyright that was granted.

You are saying that it's not "legally binding" to do what LL says, to respect privacy. But it's pretty clear that LL intends to give copyright permissions ONLY if privacy is respected.

[Name change privacy issues]

11 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

No, LL does not and can not legally own images taken by an individual on a computers not owned by Linden Lab without purchasing said images and the copyrights to those images.

Sure, they only wrote the paragraph about granting copyright permissions just for the fun of it. "This policy gives broad copyright permissions for snapshots and machinima, but asks that you respect the privacy interests of members of the community. "

Too bad LL hadn't consulted you back then. They make the effort about streamlining a page about granting copyright permissions, and you could have just told them that they don't own the copyright in the first place. They could have saved so much time!