Beardypops
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Posts posted by Beardypops
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Thanknyou for those thoughts, Whirly.
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12 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:
You'd have to directly ask either Kitty Barnett or Marine Kelly directly to see if what you were told is at all accurate.
From all other accounts (including Kitty herself in the earlier linked 2009 era thread) such a thing simply never existed, not in the official code for RLV or its derivative anyway.
I actually just asked a friend of mine who has also been on SL since 2007, and they comfirmed that it was allowed back then, but LL ran into so many problems with it, that they finally disallowed it, which was what I was told when I asked about it in 2010 time frame. They also reminded me of how difficult it was to actually remove an rlv enabled collar back then.
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14 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:
You keep returning to scripts and HUDs. Again, the scripting language cannot get anywhere near IMs. There might be a scripted HUD that offers a handy user interface to some arbitrarily evil external program that tracks avatars and records IMs (and mines bitcoin and sells nukes to pedophiles) -- SL users prefer to clutter their screens rather than visiting the dark web -- but it's not the old script in inventory that would perform the ToS-breaking functions.
As we were exploring before, one way this arbitrary evil could do its dark deeds is with a griefer viewer, but to be sure we're clear: to use that to track an avatar's location in real time means that avatar's viewer must be the griefer viewer (meaning the "victim" ain't so innocent or is implausibly naive). For IMs, either party's viewer could be the griefer viewer that relays messages, so still one of them had to install such a viewer.
Tangentially: I do think it would be practical to collect enough data about who owns objects rezzed on bot-visited sims to have a useful hit rate at finding their "home" and some other locations they're likely to visit. This obviously wouldn't work for avatars that don't leave things rezzed in-world at publicly (bot) accessible locations. I'm guessing such non-rezzers represent a disproportionately large share of stalker targets, compared to the general population, so this data may not be all that marketable, but it seems a lot more practical to find some home locations than to dispatch enough bots to track avatar location in real time, even though access to such data was sold for a time. (I.e., I bet its hit rate was abysmal.)
You’re right, I did keep coming back to HUDS and scripts, because a “griefer viewer” never even crossed my mind as existing. But you are saying even the victim would have to have that installed? That is definitely not the case in this situation. So, that eases my mind that it’s not possible in this situation.
Regarding the home being found, this individual has NOTHING in their profile that would lead anyone to their home. So, I am completely gobstopped at how it was found without the use of some kind of tracking device, thus my thinking of a HUD or script. Which then led me to wonder if there might also be something still in existence that would allow someone to sort of hack into another user’s IM’s.
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4 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:
That's just it, the ToS never allowed such a thing.
It may have been clarified but even as far back as 2806, IMs were considered/treated as private by Linden Lab and their ToS, making any method of sharing them using their service or any part of their software "illegal". That includes the client software, among other things.
Well, I guess I did make an assumption then about the ToS. I just remember that in 2007 & 2008 when I was first on SL, you could have IM’s readable by a collar owner via RLV permissions. I dinstinctly remember asking someone about it, who has used collars longer than I have if that were still possible, in 2010 because I remember it being the case from my 1st 2 yrs on SL and being told that they had stopped allowing it.
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6 minutes ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:
Here's a thread from 2009:
Correct. It was possible before 2009. i started SL in 2007. At that time it was possible. Then somewhere between that time and 2009, they changed ToS and made that functionality “illegal.” So, i guess my math is wrong in how many years ago this was. I was just thinking I’ve been in SL 11 yrs as of last October, so it had to be 8-9 yrs ago. But it is 2019 now, so 2007-2009 is 10+ yrs ago.
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5 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:
Which one, I'm not seeing anything... Then again, I've got a fairly high bar when it comes to calling someone an arse.
Well, you werent the one being condescended to. So i am sure it seemed fine to you. 😃
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6 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:
Any scripted application would require a corresponding function in the actual RLV code.
Which would require one or the other party to be using an unauthorized third party client or functionality in the original RLV client that was later removed upon demand by Linden Lab.
Correct. It used to be allowed, they changed ToS and made it “illegal” in SL 8-9 yrs ago. But my only point in bringing that up is, this used to exist. So at one point in time, it was possible to read someone’s IM’s. Is it possible that back then, some hud or script might have been created that is still in people’s inventories that would still be able to do that regardless of it being against ToS or not.
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30 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:
I'm the first to admit that I know nothing about RLV -- I've avoided knowing anything about it for over twelve years, so if the OP wants an old geezer fencing match with dueling walking sticks, I'm prepared. I also admit that the "end-to-end encryption" thing had me focused on non-consensual IM reading, not the possibility of some permission-dependent spy app. I'm in no position to say one way or another if antediluvian RLV ever had such a feature, but anything non-consensual would be a griefer viewer, not RLV, so still: one of the parties would need use such a viewer.
And a griefer viewer makes sense to me. Thank you for that. That is something Indid not know existed and it is possible that is what was used in this situation. That’s all my question is...has it ever been possible and is it still possible that some of these tools created in the earlier days of SL could still be used even though they now go against ToS.
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5 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:
I'll call things as I see them, if you "need" it or not.
And no one here has been an arse.
One individual was kind of an arse in their response, actually. And that was to whom i was responding.
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2 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:
That's nice.
Unless it was in the original, dedicated client, it never existed.
You probably missed my edit. I said it may not have been the current spy app, but there was an app at one point in time back around 2007-2008 that did have that functionality
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1 minute ago, Solar Legion said:
Where did you get that information from?
The spy app is for local chat and - for as long as I can remember - has never had the ability to transmit IMs to anyone except the user you are communicating with.
It should be noted that I've used RLV and its derivative for years now, ever since it started to be included into other clients outside of its dedicated client.
It’s not information I “got” i remember when it had that functionality. Maybe it wasnt that exact app, but there was a very early spy app that did have the functionality
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5 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:
There's no math to do and if you recall, I also gave you answers earlier in the thread.
For some things you've asked or assumed in this thread, you can try searching (through Google) for documentation.
For other things, you'll have to take the word of those who have been here for a while - the Lindens don't generally respond.
Well, you werent the one I was calling an a**hole so, you were the one that made an assumption. I do appreciate the actual answers I have received. I dont recall making any assumptions, but rather stating things i have experienced or seen and asking questions of the things I dont know. If i have erroneously stated certain things, I am happy oy to be corrected on them. What I dont need though, is for people to start calling me stupid, paranoid or naive.
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4 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:
So who told you this? Because it's not in this thread. And from this thread we know RLVa never did this.
As I said, a nefarious viewer (nothing to do with RLV) could easily intercept IMs, even with "end-to-end" encryption, inasmuch as they implement the presentation layer above the "end", but also as I said, one of the parties to the messaging would have to be using such a viewer.
Ummm yes it did. Rlv used to have the ability for an avatar to grant permissions to another avatar to read their IM’s via the spy app. But maybe you just havent been around long enough to know this. This kind of response is EXACTLY why I am asking these questions. Because some of you clearly havent been on SL long enough to know wtf you are talking about and just assume that because it doesnt happen now, that it never happened. Believe me it did. I was there.
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Well, it seems that way when I ask a question and people start talking to me like I’m stupid for asking them and calling me paranoid. Many people have actually attempted to help me to understand how it all works ans 3 of you habe chosen to condescend to me and say things like I am naive and paramoid instead of offering answers to my questions. Oh and then there’s the haxors comment CoffeeDuJour threw out there...so you do the math since you know so much.
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12 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:
Ah yes, I'm an arse for pointing out the very obvious....
Especially after some of the conclusions that were jumped to.
What conclusions? Again, i am asking questions because I dont know the answers. It’s great that you know everything, but not all of us do. So, not sure why I am suddenly being attacked by people for trying to understand what I have admitted I dont.
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16 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:
Really?
Yes.....
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Or it’s just simply someone trying to understand the technology who has been around long enough to know that people have created nefarious tools in the past. I am not sure why my questions and attempts to understand the technology has sparked you into responding to me like an a**hole. If you dont ask, you cant learn.
And maybe I am paranoid, but I have seen enough things to make me question. Still dont see what is wrong with trying to understand how it all works to keep myself from wondering.
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On 3/12/2019 at 9:51 PM, Whirly Fizzle said:
That already happened actually.
There was a "Find your friend" HUD available on the MP that was free & you had to then pay per search for each "friend". They used a network of bots to log all avatars on the regions & it gave you the last known locations of your "friend".
Obviously it didn't last long on the MP before it was killed with fire.
Wouldn't surprise me at all if it was still available off the grid as Lucia said above.Well, and that’s kind of my point. It’s all well and good to sit there in your little “it cant happen”’ safety zones, but SL has been around for 15 years and people have made a ton of huds and scripts and other nefarious things to grief and spy on people that are officially “outlawed,” but if you still have it in your inventory, who is to say you cant still use it...megaprims anyone? You may not be able to buy them, but you can sure af still rez them!! I’m with Whirly on this, just because you cant buy it now, doesnt mean it never existed and cant still be used...
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On 3/12/2019 at 10:54 AM, CoffeeDujour said:
SL can be a bit weird in the way it operates, If you have to ask about IM interception then I think it's fair to say you have very little idea of how any of this works...
Thank you, Captain Obvious >.> clearly I dont know how it all works, or I wouldnt have asked. But I am not just going to sit here and trust that nothing has ever been created in the last 15 yrs that was able to do it. RLV “used” to be able to read people’s IM’s. Who is to say back then, nothing was created that could do it apart from granting permission. So I don’t necessarily believe the system is as impenetrable as everyone claims, just because people “think” it is. I know IM’s used to be sent in plain text, is that why RLV worked that way in the past? Did end to end encryption make it impossible for these types of items to work? That’s all I’m trying to find out.
I fail to see how it makes me naive for attempting to ask people who know more about how it all works than I do. I’m sorry if I am not willing to just blindly trust simply because items that were created 10-15 yrs ago, have been banned for current sale, and just trust that means they can no longer be used. Maybe that’s how your world operates, but it sure isn’t my experience. Maybe you should check your definition of the word naive.
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Okay, thank you all for your responses. I thought that was the case, but just wanted conclusive answers to a few of these things. Consider this post closed.
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1 hour ago, Solar Legion said:
Two short answers for you: No and not without scripts.
“Not without scripts?”
What about using them to find someone’s location in SL? I’ve seen people find the SL home of someone they have no ties to at all
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What about using them to find someone’s location in SL? I’ve seen people find the SL home of someone they have no ties to at all
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I am wondering if it is at all possible, apart from a key logger, to hack someone’s IM’s in SL. Are there any black market huds out there for example that someone might use, or any griefer kind of tools that may be banned officially but someone could use to read your IM’s? I’ve searched around various forum posts and no one has mentioned things like huds or scripts that a person might have, where they could accomplish such a thing. I am asking because i have recently seen proof of people doing things that I didnt even know were possible in SL and the only explanation I can see would be huds or tools of some kind, so now I’m wondering just what is truly private if someone has the right tools?
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Is it possible for someone to hack your IM’s?
in General Second Life Tech Discussion
Posted
I guess we have had 2 different experiences in this area then, and will have to agree to disagree. Thanks for your help.