["Linden Dollar assessment"?]

I just received an email telling me a full set of Jian animals were sold and sent as a gift to a different party.  Went into SL to search for the account holder. and there is no record of that person.  Also checked the person who it was sent to, also no record.  This is the second time a sale was done this way with no record of either party involved and I never heard anything about the first instance, so if this is a hack job, the hacker has stepped up his game by using 2 alts to do the dirty work and just blitzing accounts for money and moving on using an alt to shop and transfer.  As with the first instance, I am hanging on to the notices incase there is an issue concerning it as time goes.  Just a warning, keep an eye on your sales notices.

["Linden Dollar assessment"?]

11 hours ago, Bitsy Buccaneer said:

Is LL able to recover the money they're refunding all of you somehow? Or is it just coming out of their pockets now?

I believe, though could be wrong, that LL is just paying us out of pocket and refunding the lost Lindens to the account owner as well.  Until LL decides to examine the dashboards of the people involved with this fraud, there is very little they can do to trace the stolen items back to the original hacker.  The AVs that are doing the buying are alts of the hacker and most likely make the purchases have it gifted to a second alt AV, then will transfer it over to the "mastermind".  Yesterday, I had a sale which looked suspicious.  When I checked the name of both the account holder and the giftee, neither showed up in the search.  This is very strange, but could just be another attempt by the hacker to cover their tracks.  use an alt to access an account, transfer money to an alt who will buy the items and then gift to a second alt.  once done, both alts are deleted and there is nothing left to trace, the account owner may notice the missing money, but will only have a record of Lindens being transferred.  So unless LL accesses the accounts of the missing alts, there will just be a case of missing money.

["Linden Dollar assessment"?]

Hello, all.  Seems these hackers are busy again.  I was hit for the price of 2 full sets this morning.  I did not see the sale notice from MP since it was sent to the spam folder, so getting a jump on this hacker was not do-able.  Put in a ticket, and will let you know how that goes.  Sashaspooky

 

UPDATE:  Just received an email stating my case had been reviewed and funds returned.  This took about an hour, which i think is very impressive.  

["Linden Dollar assessment"?]

9 hours ago, OxfordLennox said:

But he is now stealing with the same named avatars. Wondering why isn't he still banned. 🙄

I have a feeling the person who hit my store was the same hacker.  He used 2 different names, but the one he used yesterday was the name of the person he told me he was buying for (he added "2" behind the name.  So either this was this hackers attempt at revenge because that person refused to buy his stolen items or maybe I am just the most gullible person in the world.  Either way, as soon as reported the av used by the hacker was shut down, but that does not solve the problem because it just take a few minutes to create another Alt to do the grunt work.

["Linden Dollar assessment"?]

12 hours ago, GrandDukeDylan Rothmoor said:

The problem is, if we do it as citizens of Second Life it will turn into a witch hunt because most of the time we just have circumstantial evidence. Where as Linden Lab who can actually track the items through their unique numbers can get actual proof. So I am personally not going to engage in this time consuming and potentially community destroying activity. We must continue to pressure LL to take steps to bring this platform into 2020 where it belongs. 

What you have said is true.  As an MP seller, I get notification when items are sold.  I look at each as they arrive and if I see an items that has been sent as a gift, I go to SL and check the profiles of the people involved.  Like yesterday, the buyer was an 8 year member and the giftee was one day old.  That did not sound right, so I contacted the buyer and asked if she had bought the item, she had not and she did not know the name that the item was sent to.  I urged to check her dashboard to check on current purchases, but her dashboard was not letting her log in.  She later told me that her dashboard showed numerous  purchases and her bank account had been used to buy $1000 worth of Lindens.  She phoned the fraud line and reported it all and was told they saw the linden purchases and were reversing the payments back to her account.  LL is looking into the other purchases.  I sent in a ticket for the one made at my store and the Linden amount was returned.  The strongest weapon in our arsenal is communication.  Look at your notifications and if they look odd, check out the names.  If need be contact the customer and ask if they bought the item.  If not tell them to contact the fraud line.  The faster LL is notified, the faster they can shut down the hacker and make it harder to have massive shopping sprees. If for nothing else, it shows potential MP customers that shop owners have their backs.

["Linden Dollar assessment"?]

Hello, just had an email notice of a MP sale, checked the names account holder 8+ years, giftee one day.  contacted the account holder, she was not aware of any purchases nor did she not the person it was sent to.    I urged her to put in a fraud ticket once she checks her dashboard for purchase details, I also suggest that she block the person, that got the set, from her account.  I have sent my details to the LL using the directions posted by Patch.  My thought is the faster they get all the information, the faster they can close in on the hacker.

["Linden Dollar assessment"?]

9 minutes ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

To be fair, this was standard practice already. When an account gets stolen and lindens drained, they do get those lindens back. Those "reassessments" should always go right back to the account that was used to buy your items, not just removed from you. Same thing with unauthorized L$ purchases. Even if LL didn't refund the money, the bank could force a charge-back (or otherwise refund, depending what the insurance policy of the bank is).

The concern of this account holder is that since she had her card info on file with SL and had previously purchased Lindens in the past, she was concerned that getting it all straightened out would take time.  She also did not want the problem of her account being frozen while it was sorted.  She lives in Puerto Rico and has already had a rough time this past few years, so more problems is something she did not need.  Thankfully LL took charge and saved her from a stressful time.

["Linden Dollar assessment"?]

Hello, posted a few days ago that during my hacking incident the account holder had money taken from her bank account and it was used to buy more lindens.  Well, just spoke with her and not only did she get all her lindens back, they reversed the linden purchases and the money is back in her account.  THANK YOU LINDEN LABS. YOU DID A GREAT THING.

["Linden Dollar assessment"?]

8 hours ago, TessaPaige Jupiter said:

WOW, some MP sellers have been hit extremely hard by these fraudsters! This happened to me in January but it was not nearly as bad as some of you have been hit. I was devastated to find out that $747L was taken out of my account for a fraud issue. I was also quite disappointed that I did not receive my item back. I am a new Gacha reseller and have gone full steam ahead into investing in merchandise. I submitted a ticket immediately after receiving the email from LL but never received a response. I just submitted another ticket after my friend directed me to this thread. I hope that I can get a refund and not have to worry about my massive financial  investments in gacha merchandise. Now the question is how can we as sellers protect ourselves from this kind of fraud and will LL not penalize us for the fraud moving forward? Will we have to continue submitting tickets? Is it safe to sell RARES again?

You have raised some valid points. I doubt we will ever know the all the details to this hacking situation.  It could be just a talented computer whiz who decided to have some "harmless" fun or like the grievers of years back, where a few tricksters turned into an organization that started competing among themselves to see how much damage they could cause before being booted.  This is something that the citizens of SL will never know, but we do have tools at our disposal to help keep ourselves safe.  I have posted suggestions in previous posts of what to do if there is a suspected fraud issue, and instead of reposting, just scroll back and read them.  the biggest tool/weapon we have is communication.  by staying alert and investigating what you may believe to be fraud, will  help stem the damage done.  By contacting the account owner, you learn whether this was a real purchase or fraud, and the account holder can report it.  By doing this will also benefit the gacha sellers on MP, word will spread and potential buyer will know that the dealers on MP have their backs.  When it comes to the re-evaluation that LL is currently doing, they have not announced how far back they are going to look.  It does not seem likely they will go back for than a few months since so many people come and go from SL.  It would be reasonable that they concentrate on claims from the beginning of this year and move forward.The lose of the sold item, is regrettable, but to be expected.  Since it is just a cyber object, once the accounts are deleted, their inventory disappears as well.  LL will never hold a huge yard sale of confiscated hacker inventories,  As it stands, sellers are being reimbursed for the items and since the goal was to sell them to begin with, getting the money back from LL is technically them buying them.

["Linden Dollar assessment"?]

2 minutes ago, Tanja Byron said:

I will risk listing my things again after LL was so fair to us now 🙂

I will start relisting my items tomorrow and continue adding to them.  LL seems to be helping us out by reassessing the claims.  We have also learned what to do if we are involved with another fraud situation.  As I said before, read the email notices of sales made to your MP store and if it looks suspicious, contact the account owner.  Don't make the mistake I did by confronting the suspected hacker, it will only warn them that they have been caught and they will disappear, so let LL deal with them.  Keep the emails so details can be sent to the account owner and also LL.  Post warnings on gacha groups so all the mp shop owners will be on the lookout.  Don't wait to act. the faster LL is brought up to speed the better chance they have to eliminate the problem before more harm is done.  Once the hackers learn that the gacha community have united in protecting each other, they might think twice about being as bold as they have been these past weeks.  

["Linden Dollar assessment"?]

1 hour ago, Dessi Tyran said:

After having listened to the governance meeting from yesterday I am confident in leaving everything listed as is. I say this because, @ Kristin Linden said, if we have future assessments against us, to file a ticket to her team as Patch had stated a few pages back and she and her team will look into it. I feel better about continuing to list on the MP knowing this problem has gained the Lindens attention and they are taking action on our behalf.

I understand policy review / change isn't going to happen over night. This problem isn't going to magically disappear either. I refuse to allow thieves to run me off or keep me from doing something I love to do and enjoy. As long as Linden Labs and the Lindens continue to support us and hear our concerns and take action. I won't stop. I won't coward to thievery. This is just my feelings on this topic and how I chose to proceed. I encourage all of you to do what is best for you and your business.

You are right, of course, and if LL is willing to stand by us, we should stand by them.  Since we have now been given a pathway to clear up any assessments against the MP store owners, then we should start relisting and give more choices to potential customers.  Dessi is also correct when she says she wont allow these hackers to stop her.  This is part of what they want, to drive people off MP, so ultimately the shopping choice will be the hackers themselves.  To help LL contain this problem, all MP sellers need to keep an eye on what is sold.  Look at the email notices as soon as possible and if it is a gifted item, check both the seller and gifted out.  If the giftee shows to be a few days old, then contact the account owner to verify it was a purchase made by them and if it wasn't, tell them to contact the fraud people at LL.  The faster they are notified, the faster they can contain the damage.  Then send a ticket to the team that will help us with all available info.  With luck, when these hackers learn we are all watching for them, they will not be so bold about their activities. Finally, if a fraud occurs, post a heads up here and also on every gacha group you belong to as a warning to everyone a hacker is active. 

["Linden Dollar assessment"?]

57 minutes ago, MarquisdeSadeJustine said:

Who else hasnt gotten their lindens back? sashaspooky? 

I just came on line and an email was waiting announcing a refund of what I lost over the last week.  Now with some assurance that this is going to be how these fraud cases will be handled in the future, then I will start relisting all my full sets and rares. 

["Linden Dollar assessment"?]

8 hours ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

Like Dessi explained, scripts cannot be copied. It's simply impossible because the "code" is never communicated to the viewer. They only exist on LL's servers, we can only observe their effect on the world. The same goes for all object contents. An otherwise "flawless" copy is as easy as it has ever been. It's easy because the viewer has all the information about the visual appearance of the object, including rigging data. If the viewer didn't have that, it couldn't display it. You can't copy an object from inside of another object because the viewer has no knowledge of what the object is, other than the fact that it's an object with a name.

Similarly, it's theoretically impossible to create new objects with someone else as the creator, because object creation is handled completely by LL's servers. The only way to get around that would be if LL's servers trusted any of the data it was receiving from a viewer requesting to create a new object, which could "trick" LL's server into thinking the object was actually created by someone else. That's highly unlikely. A simple way to "hide" the fake creator is to get a transferable object from the real creator (such as a prim) and make that the root of the copied linkset. That way they can mask the name if you only select the whole object, but if you select any other link in the linkset or right-click>inspect, you'll see the actual (fake) creator.

Considering the amount of people just in this thread reporting that they've lost rare gachas, I don't think there's any real reason to think there's anything being copied. If the fraud is as wide-spread as it seems from this little thread, it's not hard to imagine there being a large supply of rares just waiting to be sold later.

It is not impossible to collect a large number of rares from certain sets.  When playing the actual gacha machines, I will play to fill my set and usually have a difficult time getting one or two commons and in the meantime I would collect more and more rares.  I played one designers machine that had 15 commons. 1 rare, by the time I got all 15 commons I had collected  9 rares. Since I have no knowledge of how copybotting is done, so dont know if it is possible or not.  All I am saying that what may appear as an over abundance of rares might just be the result of a rabid player and stubborn commons.  

["Linden Dollar assessment"?]

2 hours ago, Mollymews said:

not that a person's motivation changes anything for the product owners

but a thing is that whoever is doing this is, may not be not doing it for profit. They may simply be doing it for the lulz, just because they can

When my store was hit on Sunday, the same person bought 4 complete sets from my MP shop on 2 different purchases.  When I discovered the signs of a fraud, I contacted the account owner, and she confirmed that she did not buy anything from me.  I also contacted the buyer/hacker where he said he was buying them for another person, and offered to do the same for me, I refused.  At some point another seller who had also been hit with around L$8000 worth of purchases from the same account and same person I had confronted, he stated to that shop owner that he thought it was fun and was not worried if his account would be closed, he would just make another Alt and come back.    While this person may be doing it for fun, money is motivation as well, since he bought $300 dollars worth of Lindens while going on this spending spree.  The account owner only realized the missing money when she checked her dashboard and found all the purchases.  Thankfully she was able to report it and it is being investigated, and she has so far recovered some of the Lindens. It is my belief that while hacking,  items bought were transferred to the hackers main account and the items then offered for sale. Monday I was contacted by a group member who had read the warning I posted to various gacha groups and during the conversation, she mentioned a MP shop owned by someone she suspected of copybotting.  When she told me the name of that person, I was surprised to find it was the same person who this hacker said he offered to sell items to.  All the names were given to LL and hopefully they will see if these people are connected and deal with them.   

["Linden Dollar assessment"?]

4 hours ago, MarquisdeSadeJustine said:

does “Non-penalizing as possible going forward” mean you will NOT impose reverse charges on us due to fraud??

If so, we can start re-listing ..

If not, de-listing is the only remedy for now.

I put in a ticket for the 4 fraudulent purchase that have happened this past week.  The reply stated: " Rest assured that we are treating this situation very seriously and doing everything we can to ensure that it is addressed properly ".  While we all have to have some sort of faith, that LL will do something to find a solution to this form of hacking, I will wait to see what they actually do with the ticket I submitted.  If they show they will treat me as another victim when this happens, I will happily relist.  But if they decide that the innocent shop involved with this fraud can shoulder the lose of it all, then I will protect my targeted items.

["Linden Dollar assessment"?]

13 minutes ago, GrandDukeDylan Rothmoor said:

The people who had their accounts hacked were getting their money back in the initial adjustment the problem was that the resellers lost the money and were never returned their gacha. Now LL has decided to refund the sellers too.

Thank you for replying.  I have been hit hard over the past few days, do I now have to submit tickets for the past two items or resubmit for all 4.  I did not bother with the last two since all I got was the "TOS" standard reply for the first ones

 

["Linden Dollar assessment"?]

I must admit, I am confused.  I see people are saying their tickets have been looked at and the accounts reassessed and money returned.  Are the people getting their money back owners of hacked accounts used to buy things on MP or owners of the stores that have had item bought? 

["Linden Dollar assessment"?]

3 hours ago, mmmlisi4ka said:

I received the following response : We understand your frustration, however, the L$ were correctly voided as per our Terms of Service. While we cannot return the items to you, we can assure you every measure has been taken to secure the accounts and reduce the impact of this fraudulent transaction

 

I received a notice like that for everytime I have someone do a fraud buy.  They don't seem to understand how condescending that sounds to the one person who not only lost the items that were sold, but the money used to pay for them.I would accept a notice saying we returned the money and closed the account.  as for your innocent role in all this you lose everything, and are not squat out of luck.

["Linden Dollar assessment"?]

1 hour ago, Alma Draegonne said:

I had a gacha resale shop in the world, but as you say there are huge sims full of resale in which you can spend hours without finding what you are looking for, that is why most people use the marketplace, I use it myself to buy items that I need to complete the collections that I sell later. 

People prefer the market to look for gacha items and I closed the world store, since I have more rentals to pay and for me it was an extra expense that doesn't bring me benefit. 

The group you have commented sounds good, at least to be able to sell the things that we cannot offer in the market while the hyenas are lurking...

When I am shopping for a specific item, I will use my area search typing in the designers name and it will bring up all the items in that vicinity. then I just click on the item and zoom in on it. Doing this saves a lot of time, since big malls will have stores offering the same items for different prices.  With that in mind, when I set up my shop/mall area I tried to group all the sets for specific designers in one building.  Using boards and price boxes, I can put thousands of gachas out without eating up the prims. 

["Linden Dollar assessment"?]

7 minutes ago, Alma Draegonne said:

I believe that removing the gift option does not eliminate the problem, you can buy things and send them to the new account in the world. Items can be tracked because they have an ID, in fact I track one of the purchases and have sent the notification to LL. The answer is always the same "Due to the privacy policy, they are not allowed to enter the accounts to take the objects"...

True, it will not solve the problem for vendor boards inworld, but on MP where, of late, gacha stores are being hit, a no gift option would solve that problem.  In my shop Inworld I use texture boards and price boxes, there is no gift option.  You come in hit the box, pay the price and get the item.  If the item is mean as a gift, the buyer can transfer it later.

["Linden Dollar assessment"?]

I have had my MP store for about a year with no problems until the last few days.  From last Wed (1.29/2020) was the first fraudulent purchase.  The next was Friday (1/31) and the 3rd and 4th were yesterday (2/2).  In total $L15,114 worth of full gacha sets were taken.  I lost not only the sets but also the money that was paid for them.  So while they close down the account used by the hacker, chances are it was an Alt account and the prime account holder would just create a new alt to continue the hacking.  I am happy the people who's accounts were hack did recover the money, but unfortunately I am left with no recourse.  After the first event, I check all the email notices I get from MP sales and as with the previous sales it showed the account holder bought the sets and sent them to another person.  I did a search and discovered that while the account holder had been a member for around 7 years, the one receiving the gift was 1 day old.  I contacted both parties, first to ask the account holder if she did buy the items, and she had no knowledge of it.  I advised her to contact the fraud division at LL and report it.  That is in the works as I type.  Next I contacted the person who got the gift, and he gave me a story of working for someone who asked him to buy these sets and that that person was going to buy them from him.  He gave the the name of the person who he said asked him to buy the sets.  I then contacted that person and he claimed the person I have gotten the story from, had contacted him and offered to supply him with gacha items.  This person said he refused. Not surprisingly that first contact had also offered to supply me with gachas that I would like as well, I too refused. I then gathered the names of the people involved and gave that info to the account holder so she would have it for the fraud report.  

While messaging the account holder, I receive a new message from another MP store owner, who tells me this first person I confronted (hacker) had told her that he was selling the stolen items to me.  At that point I sent her a copy of the message I had with the hacker.   This Mp store owner tells me this hacker had hit her store for around $L8,000 worth of items. She sends me the message the hacker sent her which showed he thought what he was doing was funny and said it did not matter if they closed down his account, he would be back tomorrow.  

From what I understand this hacker is targeting full sets and rares, these items I have taken off my MP listings.  I would suggest anyone who has an MP store do the same, since I have no doubt that this wiseguy is out trolling for his next victim.  I would suggest that if you have email notifications of your mp store sales sent, check them and if it is something sent as a gift, check those names out.  If one shows that it is just a few days old, notify the account holder, the sooner a report is made, the harder it is for the hacker to succeed.  Be careful of you account, the person who was robbed last night told me her RL bank account was drained of $300 and her dashboard showed that money was used to buy Lindens.

My request to Linden Labs is that they make a slight change to the MP listing feature that could disable the gift giving option for transferable items,  By doing that it would stop the hackers ability to send items to themselves from hacked accounts.  It would not be that much of an inconvenience to a true buyer, they could just give it to the person from inside SL and if by chance a hacked item was bought, it would go to the account holders inventory and could then be returned for refund. 

I would also suggest to Linden Labs that instead of just closing down the hackers account, that they investigate the ip address used for that account and ban all accounts from that address from  SL.  This would effectively shut down the hackers prime account and all his alts.  If he tried to sign in from a different location, he would find that everything is gone.

[Combing two parcels]

Now that is what I do not understand.  Before the merge, I bought 2 adjacent lots, each 1024 M2, both listed region capacity of 

702.  After the merge the M2 total became 2048, but the capacity remained at 702.  Now it seems to me that if the land amount

doubled, then so should the capacity.  This is how it worked when I merged 2 lots to create my first land purchase.  the original

lots were also adjacent and both the land amount and capacity were added together.  Maybe things have changed since the 

beginning of the year, when I enlarged my first property, but I have not heard of any changes.

 

[Combing two parcels]

I followed the instructions that Beethros Karas posted and it did work with a minor problem.

the land was joined together with the total of both lots as area, but it did not combine the

prim allowance for both lots, it still states I have 702 prims allowed for that merged lot.

is there a way to correct this issue?