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Posts posted by Nikkesa

  1. On 1/11/2021 at 5:14 PM, animats said:

    Me too. The technology is here to build a metaverse. SL comes closest. It's just too sluggish.

    Technically, we know how to solve every problem except large numbers of avatars in a small area.

    The solution to that is to simply lower resolution locally/do what they already do. They can dynamically allocate further server resources now that they're running on AWS, so definitely shouldn't be a problem server-side.


    On 1/4/2021 at 2:11 PM, Oz Linden said:

    because that went over so well last time....

    I think the biggest problem with sansar was majorly UX design, the fact that it was VR for some reason, and according to someone on glassdoors it was an "every man for himself" "everyone working on different stuff uncoordinated" I got the idea that it was kind of a mess.

    imo theres a few changes that could be made to majorly improve the metaverse we have already though, I listed on page 2, 7th post down: 


    On 12/7/2020 at 1:38 PM, Nikkesa said:

    More complicated, scripted animation controls, a proper 2D user interface API for people to make decent HUDS. I feel like the average person starts up second life and is immediately turned off by the fact that the avatar has the same default animations as they did in 2004, and moves around feeling like it did back then too. If they just made it fun to play the game - made it satisfying to do something as simple as run around without glitching out and crashing during a sim crossing, or even having a palpable minute amount of lag during a sim crossing.... If you started them off in a smooth, optimized, cool-looking city with a decent vehicle and showed them the possibilities, way more people would get into this game.

      and here I went into more detail 

    not to entirely focus on animations, because that was the original post that I was talking in there, but mostly around the "new user experience" which should be less about "here's some cool stuff you can be"  - instead it should focus more on "Here's some new stuff you can do".

    The game needs a "How it _feels_ to play" uplift more than anything else. Starting up the client, then being able to run around like you're playing mirror's edge or breath of the wild or super mario 64 or NieR:Automata or some wicked hoverbike racing game.

    https://hopefulhomies.com/2017/02/18/movement-mechanics/ <- some more research on the topic


    I understand you guys probably already know this stuff and there are probably tons of leaps and hurdles you'd have to go through with to make this kind of thing a reality, but idk man, I'm really hoping that we get to see the metaverse fully realized at some point. I feel like if Linden Labs doesn't do it themselves, someone's going to realize how much potential there is on a platform like Stadia and just do it there... Or some rich VRchat player will invest and it'll get a major tech overhaul that puts it in league or something.

  3. On 12/14/2020 at 2:40 PM, Wulfie Reanimator said:

    Don't overestimate how "simple" any of those things are. Each of them requires major reworks of several interconnected systems that must happen without breaking existing content, which is almost impossible without things that wouldn't convolute the creation process further.

    And as much as I agree with you on literally everything else you've said... until I have the skill and motivation to implement most of these things myself, it's unlikely we'll see any of these in SL within the next 5 years at least. We can thump the drums for our laundry list of features that should be implemented (and we have, still do), but LL has the final word on every major feature. You can't even protest it by publishing your own viewer with "fancy features" without LL actively making that viewer's existence harder, because of the "shared experience" clause.

    I definitely understand how complex these things are, at least some of them. A few of them simply involve implementing already finished products that got put aside, or increasing bandwidth.... I'm a game designer myself and have an intimate understanding of how complicated this stuff can get. Probably the most complex would be anything that breaks away from strictly server-sided stuff to half-local-half-server...

    Sometimes I wish second life was on something like stadia. I know they tried it already and failed spectacularly because it was too early to implement and they didn't really have the server infrastructure needed to do something like that, but nowadays would be alot more possible.

    • Like 2
  4. 22 hours ago, Ardy Lay said:

    Do we need a Frontier Grid where developers can break content and clauses?

    I'm pretty sure opensim isn't really restricted - it's just, if you're gonna build your own game, it's probably more worth it to do your own stuff from scratch, then you can call it yours and sell it and stuff.

    • Like 1
  5. On 12/12/2020 at 8:07 PM, RowanMinx said:

    They should have worked on this instead of the pointless EEP.

    Yeah imo the old system _worked_ and the new system, for power users who want to do photography, is kind of rendered null by a few things... You can render depth textures, so basically photoshop would take care of everything anyways, or you can use reshade (though it's not allowed to use the depth buffer since reshade disables it for online games)

  6. On 12/12/2020 at 1:29 PM, Alwin Alcott said:

    this and "sl is going to die" are the most untrue things ever said at these forums.
    Niches never brings staying interest for a virtual world. How many times we heared past 15 years "if you do this now people will come".... and where are they??
    Stability will keep people.
    Most  don't need more "adult".

    So, I kind of disagree with this. I feel like most people pick up second life and it's not immediately apparent that the game is _fun_. They walk around a bit, they notice "hey, these walk animations are pretty plain". The controls feel off, there's no way you'd play it reasonably with a joystick. So what if you can make a pretty avatar - the potential isn't immediately there. For the average person, it's going to be "Open the game, is it a game? Yes? No?" and the answer is "No." Because Second life right now is not presented to new users as a game, per se, it's presented as a 2004 attempt at a snow-crash-style metaverse that's had 2-3 big updates to do with adding things like sculpts, mesh, etc...


    Presentation matters. If the users are pulled in by the fact that it feels _great_ to just run around in the game, I feel like that would be a _huge_ plus. Start them off in a solid, stable, well-optimized sim that's layed out with reasonable detail and looks nice, with some "fun" stuff to do. Let them get in a car and drive around, with some decent fun driving physics, or fly around, or race around on a hoverboard. Let them jump around and interact with their environment. Have them sit in a chair, where their avatar seamless crouches forward and smoothly takes a seat. Show them a stylish array of posters that "show off" the various avatars you could possibly become, and when they click on said poster, turn them into that avatar!

    The new user experience in this game is going to be the key to getting future players interested, and I feel like so much can be added to this game with a few simple improvements:

    • scripted/interactive/IK/rootmotion animations - the FINAL step we need for making avatars look good and immersive in the game. This would add SO MUCH.
      • Avatars would actually look good by default moving around in the game world
      • Non-human avatars could use IK for limb movement. Imagine a big dragon latching onto the roof of a house and actually being able to perch somewhere
      • Avatars would look good sitting down, getting up, interacting together, etc. INTERACTING TOGETHER. Need I say more?
    • Faster, more responsive controls and a built-in game-like control system for the avatar
      • this takes like 1 guy a couple weeks to implement. Some viewers almost do this, except they are limited by what you're allowed to do in game already
      • Add a couple different well-fleshed-out control modes. First person isn't very smooth right now. Movement feels floaty. It would be nice if responsive movement was an option, along with camera smoothing and the like for third-person. I've implemented this personally in Unity for a character controller that feels hella nice - I can attest to the fact that it's something easy to implement that would add a LOT. That being said, I understand it would be more complex for second life, but camera position only needs to be smoothed locally, and avatar movement could be more locally responsive, with some updates coming from the server to apply changes. 
    • Do the same thing for vehicle controls. Less floaty, more responsive. Give new users this experience right off the bat if they choose to sit on one of the presented vehicles.
      • Present new users with a car, a hovercar, a skateboard, a hoverboard, a motorcycle, etc, all nearby a racetrack as part of the "new-user" sim.
    • Show users the available avatars that are popular on the marketplace.
    • An actually DECENT 2D user interface API.
      • Second life needs an API for 2D user-interface drawing. Using server-side 3D models to show up on a slow-to-load, laggy user interface is not really acceptable. There's no reason that HUD objects that show up in 2D need to be 100% server-sided imo.
    • Thanks 1
  7. 7 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

    I have seen this with Firestorm viewer for ever. Eventually someone suggested deleting and updating the LSL Bridge which I did and after it worked for a  little while but eventually stopped again.

    If it's the firestorm built-in AO, it's almost certainly the fact that you're wearing some object that animates while your avatar walks. Anything that animates your avatar in response to movement keys etc while the firestorm AO is running will basically freeze your avatar.

  8. As detailed here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Puppeteering and here: http://avatarpuppeteering.com/

    I've been rather desperate recently to see something decent like this - I've been desperate enough to start exploring puppet-like avatars made of linked sets and actually have a reasonable 20-30-ish prims being animated at around 14 fps, but those are pretty much the limits. It's jarring and nothing more than a novelty, and it seems to actually lag the sim when several of them are running.

    I'd love to see my avatar walking around the world and actually interacting with it in a way that isn't just jarringly unrealistic, sliding, with basic input controls that don't feel smooth etc etc... I'm sure it's possible still to do things like vehicles that read off animation root-motion vectors baked into a notecard or something, but that's a ton of work and you'll only ever get to use it realistically in a sandbox. There are also alternatives for controlling your avatar via a script (like those flight huds that make you go extra fast), which could theoretically be synced with animation as well, but it's never guaranteed to really be working properly or look smooth.

    It looks like a lot of the work for puppeteering is already done? As far as I know, this would be absolutely massive for second life - if you add that, and then add something that makes the user say "Oh jeez, it's actually pretty fun to just run around in this game", I feel like a lot more users will pick up second life and be interested in it as a _game_ rather than it's current function of being a chat simulator with some out of date novelty stuff like vehicles and neat tech design and stuff. Not to mention how much it would add to the adult portion of the game, which iirc means $$$$ for linden labs.

    • Like 3
    • Haha 1
  9. I think it would entirely benefit. Heck, even sansar was looking to be something like that - integration with marvelous designer was genius, but the user interface and new-user-UX was so horrid it's not even funny.

    I think it would HEAVILY benefit, but definitely not if it was done by linden labs. I think you'd need to hire an entire new team (obviously take some of the lindens, no idea who they are), ditch the board of governors, have a group of leaders who are passionate about possibilities and metaverse, and less passionate about shareholder-profits, have some rich billionaire who believes in the cause fund it with a few billion dollars as investment without expectation of profit-generation, and voila, you could probably have something pretty darn amazing after a good 8-12 years of development with constant review of upcoming technologies, cloud-capabilities, infrastructure design and several layers of abstraction and modularity to let them keep things updated.

    The problem is that there are no billionaires willing to just casually throw money at something that wont guarantee profits in return, while also ignoring the fact that they could have spent that several billion dollars on building homes for the homeless, or investing in education, infrastructure etc in developing countries - stuff like that.

    The other problem is that when someone like linden labs makes something like sansar, well, all you have to do is go to glassdoors and check out some the employee reviews of the company to get a fundamental understanding of how it really went wrong. Also the fact that we only see palpable updates to second life every 2-5 years... I'm hoping eventually they will buckle down and make something like looks and feels fundamentally awesome to play.

    I feel like they'd get a lot more users if it was possible to switch between making it feel like a smooth first person shooter to a smooth third-person ARPG-style fast-paced combat-style thing, then back to chat simulator as easily as pressing buttons, with each of the different interface and input modes being a user-designed and customized experience.

    More complicated, scripted animation controls, a proper 2D user interface API for people to make decent HUDS. I feel like the average person starts up second life and is immediately turned off by the fact that the avatar has the same default animations as they did in 2004, and moves around feeling like it did back then too. If they just made it fun to play the game - made it satisfying to do something as simple as run around without glitching out and crashing during a sim crossing, or even having a palpable minute amount of lag during a sim crossing.... If you started them off in a smooth, optimized, cool-looking city with a decent vehicle and showed them the possibilities, way more people would get into this game.

    • Haha 3
  10. A couple other solutions for you:


    - you can get monitor/keyboard setups that emulate being a laptop but act as a monitor and keyboard for a separate desktop

    - you can stream from a desktop to a laptop on local network and it would be imperceptibly fast.

    - Spend the money on getting a compact desk/chair setup. I'm not sure if you are constrained to a bed due to physical limitations, though.

    - You can get a bed-desk for a desktop computer. I.e. a big monitor arm and a swivel-over-your-lap desk, just invest in a proper pillow or bed-chair type thing to support your back.


    That being said, new Ryzen 3000 series (make sure what you're buying is a 7nm chip) uses less power and is cheaper for same performance as Intel chip. What matters _most_ is the graphics card attached ("discrete"). Since they both have same GPU, which is what is gonna be generating the heat, go with whichever has better cooling specs. (bigger fan, bigger vents etc).


    If all you're doing is playing SL all day, don't even worry about over-heating, unless you're gonna be sitting the thing on a blanket (don't do this). You should be able to put it on a make-shift bed-desk or some kind of flat surface and not have to worry about it. 

  11. It is my understanding that with the shift to the cloud will come a severe uplift in network capability and general server power.

    A huge immersion breaker in Second Life is the fact that it's using a 17 year old BVH animation system. With the update, is it possible we could be looking at something more sensible, like potentially synced server-side animations, at least for the "original" avatar skeleton?

    This game would benefit from root-motion animations and IK/scripted animation movement (i.e. motion driven by animation and IK), and I'd love to see my Avatars be able to interact with the world around them, rather than slipping by like a metaphysical ghost that doesn't actually exist doing awkward motions that don't make any sense at all relative to their position and surroundings.

    I think it would really be the key to next-level immersion in Second Life. We have advanced looking avatars, but they're rather lackluster in their inability to even turn and walk with any sense of purpose whatsoever. 

  12. That's funny, because about a third of the internet is sitting on AWS. Good luck, and know that Second Life is _definitely_ not going to switch services unless they get bought by Microsoft or Google, in which case it might end up on Azure or GCP.

    • Like 1
  13. I'd like to throw in HTML-based (or some kind of UI system integrated) on top, to replace the insane server-side scripted-3D-prim-based GUI that currently exists. The client even _comes_ with a UI, yet everyone has to use prim objects?

    Even a prim object that ran HTML on one surface that can interface with scripts/client, even via emailwould work (though its looking like this might be possible already, perhaps?)

    • Haha 1
  14. On 9/14/2020 at 3:09 PM, Pussycat Catnap said:

    I suspect because the inventory list is likely just a reference pointer.

    It's a list of references to entries in the SL database and your access permissions thereof. It's likely not the actual objects. It's probably just an array of variables.

    You need to instantiate an instance of a given entry in that array in order to have that bundle of variable 'exist' and be available to functions that that call on it and examine it.

    (I should be calling this an 'object' but SL users think of an 'object' as an object... but in code it means basically a bundle of concepts that are somewhat 'logically self contained' - and I'm stating this very poorly because I'm trying to make it layperson comprehensible).


    If I am right; until you rez it... it doesn't actually "exist" - it's just a block of data on what will exist once rezzed.

    The rezzed item is an 'instance' (active copy) of that 'block of data'. A permission like 'no-copy' just means you can only rez one instance - and once rezzed it's removed from your list because it's now in a different list, and listed as yours to control or 'remove from the list for that region and put into your list of things you can rez'.


    I'm phrasing all of this with 'if I am right' because while this is how these things would work in normal computer programming, SL is wonky and old and predates a lot of modern concepts - so much of what SL does is just... wrong and inefficient... and without knowing the internals of SL, I can't make the same assumptions about it I would be able to make about almost anything else in the modern world...

    There's literally no reason they couldn't "temp-res" the object or even access its contents via a secure channel using the proper permissions checks.

    I'd imagine once they finally get _everything_ running on AWS they probably have an absolutely absurd list of ***** they want to add on to the game like this that having more powerful and extensive servers will offer them.

    Or, considering its _second life_, they have nothing but stability and region crossing on the list of to-do and you wont see any new features for probably another 10 years. Literally.

  15. Literally any graphics card you buy from nvidia that's better than a 550 is compatible with second life, except maybe some weird quadro server-cards that you can't buy individually.

    Right now, the 3000 series just came out, but good luck getting one as they get sold out pretty much instantly. 3080 runs for about $700 USD. I would recommend getting one of those.

    I also recommend getting a hybrid/water-cooled card if silence is an issue. Usually they still have a fan, but you can buy a silent one and use it for the radiator if you're doing the watercooling setup yourself.

    The ROG STRIX version of nvidia's cards have a feature such that they basically don't run the fans if the card is below 50 degrees, because they have absolutely massive heatsync structures on them.

    Also you can probably set up SL with _some_ raytracing using opengl injection.


    Just don't get ripped off when you buy a card - check the standard prices and extensively google "buy RTX 30<whatever number>" , as some vendors will crank up the prices for the sake of it in hopes someone will just buy without thinking.

    • Like 1
  16. As far as I know it's basically just automating the process (possibly with some AI help) of creating LOD's for 3d models. Graphics cards still have memory limits, and they haven't magically disappeared. Unreal engine just takes care of it for you. You can do this already, there are intelligent decimations tools out there.

    Another thing to note - This doesn't work on non-static mesh objects. Game characters or anything really anything with a skinned mesh/organics does not share this lack of limitation, as far as I know.

  17. On 7/18/2020 at 7:47 AM, NikolaosSakamoto said:

    Friggin' heck WHY are any of us even asking for that?  I have a rig that can run Red Dead Redemption 2 full 64 person hacked servers multiplayer with the "always photo mode" patch at 70FPS... but with Second Life and Firestorm I twiddle my thumbs for 10 minutes entering Big Daddy's, for example, and stare at 5 frames per second.  It's not my connection, either.  I could run 10 instances of SL before making a tiny difference in ping.  My experience isn't unique, either.  I don't know what Linden Labs is doing wrong, but there is something being done SEVERELY wrong.

    There is absolutely nothing more important than fixing whatever the hell is wrong which causes this.  The region crossing problems are likely related to _whatever the hell you're doing wrong_ for circa 2012 graphics to run like I'm logging in with a Commodore 64 when my rig can run.. well as above.  You guys seriously need to pull all the tech dweebs in and make it so this doesn't run slower than Habitat (google it) when there's more than 10 people in a parcel.  I'm 43 years old and am pretty much the young guy wherever I go, due to how it runs.  We're people who remember BBS and so have patience but... there's gotta be fresh blood, and I don't mean brazilian ladyboy escorts.  I love this place, I mean it's the best RP engine around but.. so help me I can't blame the kids for ADHDing off in a few days.

    The problem, my dude, is that optimization for RDR2 is ridiculously easy in a static world, with everything being instanced and handled by advanced shaders that are perfectly optimized. In Second Life, textures aren't shared, maps are complex, and almost none of the mesh is optimized. All of the avatars have ridiculous polygon counts with large non-customizable skeletons underneath, and worlds are built out of objects not even remotely optimized either in the texture sense, poly-count, or anything like that. It's what comes with the freedom of being able to make a game like Second Life what it is. That being said, more work could definitely go into making tools to run things smoother.


    4 hours ago, iceing Braveheart said:

    increasing land size would devalue lands value for sale and resale


    That's nice. The whole concept of artificially based restraints for the sake of "land sales"... Why don't they just turn SL into IMVU, if they're going to halt all progress? Or just accept that the game will eventually be even less than just mostly dead content that it is right now.

    • Like 1
  18. Perhaps the usual LSL scripts could simply function on a small space of 256x256 within the big sim, and a new set of functions could be used to interact with the larger sims.

    Optionally, It's very feasible to just make vehicles not be part of your av or be connected to you, and just remote-control them on a smaller scale. Things could probably get messy with minimum draw distance but yeah...

    But anyways, I'm still hoping then, once they move everything to AWS, they'll be able to expand SL greatly in terms of features and making things a bit more modern-game-friendly.

    Maybe a few other cool things would be a _real_ HTML-based-or-something GUI system that doesn't use prims, but would instead be a locally-run 2D interface. (Ha, maybe general HTML5 support in-client for building stuff on top?)

    This game definitely needs a revamped item system as well, with thumbnails, item browser, stuff like that. I'm aware you can build that out using the outfit dialog but it's not the best....

    Optionally, maybe a more local avatar-builder that lets you construct your avatar without sim-lag.

    Mesh modification, in-client 3D modelling, in-client 3D painting (see something like quixel? Maybe a little more basic though?). In-client sculpting, rigging, etc... People have created plugins like this solo and open-sourced for game engines like unity, I don't see why SL couldn't have things like that, which don't _really_ require a ton of extra architecture on the backend, just frontend tools and the ability to upload after or something.

    They did some stuff like this in sansar, and they even set up MD support with in-client clothing editting and physics, and _that_ was freakin' genius. I'm really disappointed that they sandbagged so hard on the frontend of sansar, and the new-user experience. "You can be spock, or you can be a weird-looking angel thing, and we built this for VR, btw" isn't a really good way to say "hey, we did SL 2.0 but like with the worst features of VRchat and SL put together"

    • Haha 1
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