Cheetah3D and Rigged Mesh

[perfectslam]

I was wondering if anyone has managed to upload a rigged mesh using Cheetah3D.  I've had no trouble uploading mesh in general, just the inability to import rigged mesh at all.

I used the simplebot.jas from the Cheetah3D form as well as importing an FBX amature from Blender, and neither has seemed to work for me.  Each time I try to upload, the skin and joint checkboxes remained greyed out for me.

Also, I've tried the copy/paste technique Gavin Hird spoke of and it doesn't seem to work (he was using v5.8 at the time of that posting and I'm using v6.0).

Anyone have any thoughts or experiences?  I'm asking here as well since I've received no response on the Cheeta3D board itself.

[Gavin Hird]

It is still possible to upload rigged meshes from Cheetah3D 6.0.1 if you replace a section of the generated DAE file.

I use the text factory in BBEdit and do a grep search for 

count="26">[iD0-9 ]+</Name_array>

and replace it with 

count="26">mPelvis mHipRight mKneeRight mAnkleRight mFootRight mToeRight mHipLeft mKneeLeft mAnkleLeft mFootLeft mToeLeft mTorso mChest mCollarLeft mShoulderLeft mElbowLeft mWristLeft mCollarRight mShoulderRight mElbowRight mWristRight mNeck mHead mEyeRight mSkull mEyeLeft</Name_array>

You can do the same in any editor that supports grep (most Mac editors do these days.)

[perfectslam]

It's still not working, unfortunately.

How many entries are there in the DAE file?

[Gavin Hird]

There is only one.

Could you post the JAS file you try to export there so I can have a look at it and the resulting DAE?

[perfectslam]

Here's a simple question.

In the skeleton tag, the "base", or 0 item should be mPelvis (as I currently have it), or should it be avatar?  The find/replace doesn't have avatar listed but...

Right now, on my boot, I have a skeleton tag, dragged over mPelvis from the joints hierarchy and bound it.  It will upload into Aditi, but it's COMPLETELY wrong.  It says it's attachd to the right hand, but on the side of my face like a Bluetooth headset and scaled into what looks like a snorkel of sorts.

--

When you import a mesh, does the imported mesh now use the coordinate system of the scene or is there some original coordinate system preserved and an intermediate rotation/scale matrix used to bridge the mesh with the new scene?

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So, I've decided to recreate a boot mesh from scratch using the simplebot.jas from the Cheetah3D forum right from the start.

I added in the OBJ meshes from SL, rigged them too.  Before I export I delete the "simplebot" as well as the skin so all that's left in the file is the camera, the boot and the armature.  When I import onto Aditi, the mesh is distored in the preview and utterly crazy when equipped (still saying attached to Right Hand).

 

Link to File

[Gavin Hird]

The reason it comes out all twisted it possibly because you have not rotated the skeleton and figure 90 deg and then burned the transformation (Coord system menu item from the Tools menu.)

 

[perfectslam]

I'm not sure I follow.  I thought the whole point of the provided JAS file was that it automatically did that rotation?  What's the difference then from straight importing the joints and using the default positioning?  Because that's what I used on my first boot mesh but it won't import either.  At least this time *something* gets imported into Second Life, albeit something out of a Cronenberg film.  I guess that each new object uses the "world" coordinate system which could mean that's why my second attempt at the boot didn't work either because the transform tool doesn't change the internal coordinate system for my object.

I do think I sort of follow.  My imported mesh will preserve it's coordinate system from the original JAS file but I need to have that object rotated. When I use the transform tool to rotate and place my mesh, the mesh maintains the old coordinate system and the transformations are made to appear on screen but when I export the mesh, the mesh maintains the original cooridinate system? Therefore burn transform gets rid of this phantom rotation matrix by multiplying the matrix through?

I'll have to look up on exactly how to use those tools as well.  Never needed them before.

 

--

What I did was take the simplebot.jas file, removed the robot-like mesh. I then imported and transformed my boot mesh into place on the left leg of the armature.  I then burned the boot mesh using the burn transform tool from the Coord options.  I put the skeleton tag on the boot, dropped in mPelvis joint as root then bound the mesh to the armature.   Export that as DAE, did a find/replace to edit the joints and then saved it for import onto Aditi.

Still fails on import.  Still says attached to right hand (I tried "forcing" it to go on Avatar Centre but the result was the same).  Doesn't look like a snorket but...

[Gavin Hird]

You seem to basically have done the right thing with the simplebot skeleton and your mesh, but where you might go wrong is the order of the bones when you do the find/replace in the dae. They should be in the order I gave you above in this thread. 

Don't worry about the attachment point. Any point will do including right hand. 

[Gavin Hird]

here is the correct bone hierarchy

 

[perfectslam]

So, I've gone through and reordered the joint structure inside Cheetah3D, redid the skeleton, rebound it, exported and editted the DAE file.

This is the result now:

 

Another question, inside the simplebot armature folder, there are series of folder items (i.e., Right_Hand, Skull, etc).  Are they to be skeleton'd and bound too?  They are not required by Second Life are they?

Well, I discovered that my problem is related to weights; because the mesh is "normal" in the preview untilI select the weights option.  See below.

So back in C3D, i've been going through all the joints in the skeleton properties looking for any weight situation that could cause that.  I can't seem to find anything.

I don't know how to start in the DAE but it sounds like the weights section has to be reordered too maybe?  I'm looking now.

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

When you select the "weights"  in the uploader, you activate everything related to your rig, not just the weights. Going by the picture you posted I suspect a rotated knee in your armature.

[perfectslam]

There are two options: skin weight and joints.  I've enabled both.

If I include the skinweights, the mesh appears as it should in the viewer window, but if I import or display the weights in the preview window in the uploader, the mesh goes bonkers.

As for the knee rotation, it's not appearing in my modeller.  It appears zero'd on export.

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

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perfectslam wrote:

 

If I include the skinweights, the mesh appears as it should in the viewer window, but if I import or display the weights in the preview window in the uploader, the mesh goes bonkers.

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You mean when you include joint positions? All the more reason to believe your knee is rotated.

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As for the knee rotation, it's not appearing in my modeller.  It appears zero'd on export.

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How do you mean "appears zero'd" ? Before export? does it somehow show during export? After export?(in the dae file) Do you mean the model looks as it should before export or do you mean all the numbers are correct?

[perfectslam]

The T-pose in the modeller appears proper inside my modeller; the knees are not bent.  Both boots (I made the right boot as well and rigged it to the armature as well).

I logged back into Aditi to see if unchecking joint rotations would have any effect.  As soon as I enable "include skin weight", the boot goes nuts as before whether or not joint positions is enabled or not.

Since I reordered the joints as well as renamed them, I've been looking in the DAE file to see if the weights need to be reordered as well.

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

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perfectslam wrote:

The T-pose in the modeller appears proper inside my modeller; the knees are not bent.

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Yes that by no means excludes the possibility that they are bent though. "Appear" doesn't equal "is". What do the numbers say?

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I logged back into Aditi to see if unchecking joint rotations would have any effect

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Joint rotations??

[perfectslam]

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Kwakkelde Kwak wrote:

Yes that by no means excludes the possibility that they are bent though. "Appear" doesn't equal "is". What do the numbers say?

The problem is that the armature simplebot.jas is rotated.  I've looked at the numbers.

 

If I look at the mTorso, the Rotations are 0.3059, 4.1737 and 4.191.  The mKneeRight it's 5.4857, -3.4234 and 3.4469.  Unless those are in radians (which I don't believe) there doesn't appear to be any serious enough rotation to make the boot distort like that.

I've compared these rotations to a pristine copy of the provided simplebot.jas file from the Cheetah3D forums and the rotations are exactly the same.

 

 

 

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

Those rotations should be in degrees yes..so that's not it then....

[Gavin Hird]

Go to this link http://www.cheetah3d.com/forum/showpost.php?p=63264&postcount=36 and download the 

SL skeleton Cheetah friendly.jas.zip 

file that you find there. Use this skeleton rather than the one from the simplebot file.

 

 

[perfectslam]

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Gavin Hird wrote:

Go to this link 

http://www.cheetah3d.com/forum/showpost.php?p=63264&postcount=36

and download the 

SL skeleton Cheetah friendly.jas.zip 

file that you find there. Use this skeleton rather than the one from the simplebot file.

 

 

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Excellent!  

 

The boot is 90% what I wanted.  I just have to adjust the skin mesh and twiddle with the boot position but it does attach properly on Aditi.

 

[perfectslam]

Thread bump.

I decided to do a couple tests by making some simple fullbody rigged mesh as well as adjust the joint positions.  So I made what I called "Deathbot" rather quickly.  The mesh is bound to the armature, the transform has been burned.  I haven't played with the weights but I'm not looking for perfection here, just to see how hard it would be to do.

Things go fine through the DAE export but when I do the search inside the DAE file for the find/replace, it is not matching the pattern.  It won't even find </Name_array>.

So, I search for "mPelvis":

 

    <library_visual_scenes>        <visual_scene id="RootNode" name="RootNode">            <node id="..." sid="..." name="Camera">                <matrix sid="matrix">...</matrix>                <instance_camera url="#..."/>            </node>            <node id="ID417589872" sid="ID417589872" name="Avatar">                <matrix sid="matrix">...</matrix>                <node id="ID417621824" sid="ID417621824" name="mPelvis" type="JOINT">            .            .            .            </node>    </library_visual_scenes>

 I then do a search for ID417589872 and only finds the one entry (the one above).

Anyone have any thoughts?

DAE File

[perfectslam]

Thread bump.

I've been having some trouble with the female avatars.  I made a rigged mesh outfit and only discovered after all the work was done that nothing above the waist really lines up.

Anyone know what the numeric values for the female shape are or where I can fine them?  I'm not finding them at the Creation Portal for some reason though I was sure I saw them there once...