[New Gacha Policy Discussion]

Just now, Viche Hexem said:

Maybe it is, maybe that'll apply to the super unfair fishing machine I thought up too, but it's not been directly addressed and this is the thread in which we find loopholes like that and aknowledge them. I think conveyors will remain legal but it's less about what I think and more about the possibilities of what people might do.

Viche, I'm sorry, but I will have to "persevere that and focus on the constructive posts" solely to you. at least you get what is happening and why it's important. finding things that people will try and proposing them here in a safe environment that LL can also explore and get legal council on.

I know this next bit will invite people to make fun of me...

you all have to forgive me for worrying that many makers will just roll up shop and leave instead of going back to the old ways. hopefully it doesn't and maybe even new makers come in, but I don't see that happening personally. especially with the cost, in time and money, to start being a creator that can actually sell things that people want. I see events with less and less stands over the past year or so, even larger events that used to be full of well made things, for example.

SL has felt to me less vibrant and more empty recently, my long friends list is looking less and less active. people logging in with feeling of being required instead of excited. granted, this might just be the people I know, but SL feels like it's dying. I'm not saying this will kill it and yes, it will go on, the sky prim is not falling. but I see SL dying slowly and this is just the next infection that pushes it along it's mortal coil.

this is why trying to find a way to maybe a way that creators can still make the amounts they were making with gatchas, as well as resellers is so important to me.

/me sighs, "regardless, see you all inworld maybe." 🙋‍♀️

[New Gacha Policy Discussion]

1 minute ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

Doesn't matter. When LL tells her no then she will comprehend.

then they tell me that it's not allowed 🤷‍♀️. I have no interest in selling or buying gatchas. I'm worried it's going to push makers away from SL

[New Gacha Policy Discussion]

2 minutes ago, Skell Dagger said:

When was the last time you had to pay L$75 (for example) every single time you wanted to sit on a lucky chair?

no... money...needs...to..be...spent...to...get...the...rare....just...luck

and Silent talked about my reading comprehension

[New Gacha Policy Discussion]

Just now, Blush Bravin said:

Are you saying that no one has to pay any money to participate in the conveyer? If no, then good to go but the moment anyone spends money participating then it crosses the line because money has been spent and there are odds in obtaining the rare.

that's what I have been saying.. no money must be used, but can be.

hell, there are other freebie schemes in SL that drive traffic that can be combined with a conveyor to allow for both winning for free and buying

[New Gacha Policy Discussion]

2 minutes ago, Komarimono said:

I don't think you're understanding.  No one would make the purchase, and would simply use the Lucky Chair aspect, thus no income.  And you don't have to be the one who wants it, and needs to sit on it.  "Lucky Chair!  If you name begins with E, win a prize!"  TP your SL friend in that name starts with E.  It's actually a common tactic people use to help people new to SL to get clothing and the like for years to reset the timer, and if now has Gacha items?  Can just sit and trade it.

people would still buy... especially if they are a reseller and want multiple items in the conveyor.

[New Gacha Policy Discussion]

3 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

The point of lucky chairs is to increase traffic not to make a profit. The conveyer belt method is designed to produce income with a chance of getting a rare. Sounds like you are comparing apples and oranges but not seeing the difference between the two.

 

I know what the point of having a lucky chair is as well as a gatcha...

what I'm saying is this, if you can get the rare item for free then the gambling part is not there. there is no "pressure" to buy to get the item

[New Gacha Policy Discussion]

3 minutes ago, Komarimono said:

99% of the time, they are cheap, simple or junk items.

there is nothing stopping anybody from putting a good item in them. and wouldn't doing that drive traffic higher then as there is a chance of people getting the rare?

also, wouldn't that also drive people to buy into the conveyor to not have to wait?

[New Gacha Policy Discussion]

Just now, Rowan Amore said:

^sighs

if you have a problem with this you also have a problem with lucky chairs as there is only a chance that you get the free item

[New Gacha Policy Discussion]

7 minutes ago, Viche Hexem said:

I mean, I see it working. Lets say it cycles every minute or so, lets say people can see the item they're going to buy , lets say that people get locked into a vendor for 10 seconds on a timer that resets every time they buy something.

Someone goes and buys something from the vendor, they get the thing and the conveyor moves along one with a new random product joining the end of the list. If this person sees something they like they can buy again and again until they get the thing they want, if not they leave the vendor and someone else can hop on if they like.

This way nobody can product snipe because they'll be locked out of the machine when a new product appears and the person presently using it will have the first chance to buy the thing. This does beg the question though, what if people just kept hopping back on a machine to lock it down for themselves?

I figure maybe have them time out of using the vendor for 5 seconds before they can use it again, this way there's no being sure you can hold down the vendor for a whole day (though I suppose it might lead to some kind of frantic vendor cooldown clicking war to keep it locked down as long as possible until it cycles to something good, that certainly makes me think...)

also a queue can be added that allows people to be added for free, and then sent a sim-wide message when it'll be available soon

[New Gacha Policy Discussion]

1 minute ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Of course not. You seem to have a problem with reading comprehension. That's not an insult, just an observation. Resulting from your constant misinterpretations of what I say. 

At this point, I think you have bitten off more than you can chew. Maybe take a step back for a day or two and really research what you are trying to convince others of. I think you will find that what you keep trying to propose will not be allowed as it is too close to being what a gacha is defined as being by LL.

from my point of view it's you not understand what I'm saying, let me do a long post to spell out what I'm talking about

in SL there are chairs that are made in a way that people can get something for free if they sit in it if their name starts with a specific letter. this letter rotates over time. they are sometimes called lucky letter chairs or lucky name chairs.

there are other types of things that sell you an item that then changes the item that's for sale randomly after the person buys the listed item. this is called a conveyor. the are items that are less likely to be listed those items are called rares.

in my proposal, the two ideas are fused. so there is a chair that will give people a free item to a name that starts with a certain letter in the chair, but they can also buy a listed item that is randomly generated instead. anybody with the lucky letter of the moment can sit and get any of the items listed that are in the conveyor if their name starts with the lucky letter. the odds of getting the rare are the same (or maybe more likely for paying people) if you sit or if you buy.

there are many variations on this, but the base idea is the same. as there is a chance of somebody getting it for free, the rare item can be had without paying.

 

[New Gacha Policy Discussion]

Just now, Experimental Scientist said:

That's gonna go over well in an event that already has a full sim for a week or two in a row. 😛

put them also in the observation sims? I never said it was a great alternative lol

[New Gacha Policy Discussion]

1 minute ago, Viche Hexem said:

I feel that but the post you were replying to at least highlights that some people are here actually trying to do this whole loophole finding "things to be banned or that will replace gacha" thing. I said earlier but people are coming here emotionally charged and ready to butt heads in an online argument over if gacha was good or bad. We're just going to have to persevere that and focus on the constructive posts.

I think I need to friend you inworld, you are my kind of person 💕

[New Gacha Policy Discussion]

2 minutes ago, Experimental Scientist said:

What will happen at an event like Arcade or Epiphany where there's maybe 20 people trying the machine at the same time? If it switches the prize anyone someone buys an item, if one of those 20 tries to buy a rare and then gets a different one because someone else sniped it, it's already non-compliant. And that's not even considering the added impact of lag.

I know where you got the idea, and it works well for Overwatch, but in Overwatch every player is getting lootboxes individually on their own PC, with no else joining in.

lock the vendor to one avi until they either tell it they are done or it has a timer and have multiple vendors if it's a busy event

[New Gacha Policy Discussion]

Just now, LittleMe Jewell said:

It is actually good having everyone post about their perceived loophole around things.  It makes it easier for Patch and Team to be able to name specifics in their FAQ, rather than folks later saying "It did not specifically say ABC, so..."

this post is super frustrating because this is what I've been doing the whole time, but people have acted like I'm just trying to find ways to put a "toe over the line"

[New Gacha Policy Discussion]

1 minute ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Available ONLY to avatars with the name beginning with a specific letter. Not ALL avatars. There is the problem. NOT ALL.

so you also have a problem with name chairs?

[New Gacha Policy Discussion]

2 minutes ago, Komarimono said:

You can purchase bait for XP, correct.  But you buy the bait, strictly for that XP.  I know you're trying to fish for a way to make it seem like a Gacha (See what I did there?  Haa!  Ok, anyway..), but you're just buying bait for the XP, nothing more.  Once you reach level 5?  No longer need any bait ever again, unless you want to get more XP for some funny racing along the leader board.

but you still have to buy to get to level 5 though which is the only time you get a super duper rare or whatever?

[New Gacha Policy Discussion]

3 minutes ago, Komarimono said:

There are no bonuses after level 5.  After level 5, you get titles, tells you on this page as well.

Quoted from their page: "Here are the complete statistics for how often you catch fish, and what rarity you catch for Level 0 through Level 5. Any level past 5 has the same chances as Level 5. Levels beyond 5 do not improve your chances -- they just earn you cooler and cooler titles."

ok but you have to buy to level 5 right? or am I wrong?

edited to add... how does the "AquaDash Arcade Game" work?

[New Gacha Policy Discussion]

4 minutes ago, Komarimono said:

Experience past level 5 gives you nothing but silly titles for the game.

http://www.7seasfishing.com/stats.html

how is the chance of getting a super rare fish after getting to level 5, which you have to buy into, not gambling?

though I think I'm misunderstanding the fishing, so ignore me if I'm wrong.

[New Gacha Policy Discussion]

1 minute ago, Komarimono said:

Yes,  5 Tiers last I checked. 

It's no different then the fishing mini games you'll find in main game Titles.  Example, Ocarina of Time on N64 and other Zelda games.  Many MMO's like WoW, Rift, Final Fantasy XIV etc.  It's considered a game, not gambling.  It's meant for recreation and you've access to all the fish and options easily.

Gachas on the other hand, require you to pay each time, and pay again, and again and again...  Until you either get lucky to get the piece you want, or until you're out of L and stop.  I should know, I've thousands of Gachas I can't get rid of, just clogging up my inventory, while trying for that Rare or Ultra Rare.

is there a way to buy into getting more rares when you fish? I've heard people talk about buying something that gives experience

[New Gacha Policy Discussion]

3 minutes ago, Komarimono said:

And the Fishing game, gives you simple dinky little prim fish.

is there a hierarchy with rarity and fishing?

[New Gacha Policy Discussion]

2 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

As long as no one is paying for anything, it's just a lucky chair so I'm not seeing the point or why it would be some sort of work around to the ban.  There have always been more desirable items in lucky chairs.  Lucky chairs have also always been free for the most part although some require a group to be joined.  The items themselves are free, rare or not.

the point is that there is also a conveyor, or traditional gatcha, that also sells the items in the chair. as you can get the item for free. the fishing game is the same as the chair, and that is allowed.

[New Gacha Policy Discussion]

1 minute ago, Tetsuryu Vlodovic said:

Here's a wild idea, how about just selling your stuff normally instead of trying to nickle and dime your customers to death!?

I generally agree with this, but it seems there are a not-insignificant number of creators that rely on the money that gatchas bring in. normal direct selling doesn't generate the same money. if that's true or not, I have no idea.

there are other side benefits to having plenty of transferable cheap items like gatchas, they can be resold to people who wouldn't buy an item directly at a higher price.

[New Gacha Policy Discussion]

Just now, Rowan Amore said:

But ALL items in the chair are free.  All you put in is time standing around waiting for something you might want.  You don't pay for one thing on a lucky chair hoping the next item up is the free rare.

all of the items, including the rare would be available to avis with the letter the chair is looking for, including rares. the odds of the rare being given for free are rare, but the chance of getting anything in the conveyer for free is there.

[New Gacha Policy Discussion]

7 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

And still 'odds' are involved, so yep, still gambling.  Paying for something you don't want on the chance of getting something you do want even if that something you want is free.  You're still paying for a random thing beforehand.

Ultimately, they will decide whether things such as these are a scheme to skirt the new ban.  

 

there are odds for normal name chairs as well, if you want to get the rare item for free you can. there isn't any money required, just like name chairs.

[New Gacha Policy Discussion]

1 minute ago, Rowan Amore said:

Would then make it gambling.

the "odds" here are versus getting the rare from the chair for free....