[CasperTech Acquisition Discussion]

On 9/22/2022 at 11:36 AM, JJValero Writer said:

Although I am aware that many users distrust this solution, I think it is the best possible one. My argument is that network vendors are not a product, they are a service.

When you buy a networked vendor, be it from Casper or from any other creator, it is providing you with a free service. This free service is the maintenance of servers, backup, technical support, ...

This service is not free for the creators who provide it, and I gather that a service that handles over a million transactions in a single day consumes a lot of bandwidth. Hosting is not exactly cheap.

This is a fixed cost that must be paid month by month. At first, when there are few users, there are more benefits than costs that are covered by vendor sales.

But if the number of users continues to grow and especially if the number of new buyers decreases, there may come a time when the benefits are significantly reduced and may even be lower than the costs.

That is why in a short time the creators are forced to create new products and addons.

HippoTech "got its fingers caught" and had to close down. But it is not the only one since there are other less well-known systems such as AeonVox or E2V that also "got their fingers caught".

I don't know if CasperTech is above or below the line where it still makes a profit. But in the long term it is inevitable that this business model will be unviable.

There are only two solutions, either a subscription system or the purchase of the system by LL.

If the subscription system is adopted, many users will switch to other systems and the sword of damocles will continue to threaten to fall just as HippoTech did.

That is why I say that the solution that has been adopted is better.

Although Hippovend failed for whatever reason.....it is not the standard for other vendors such as Casper's.  His has proven reliable as well as he has stated it has been profitable in the model he created in both the vendor and the support system. 

As for "Subscription vendors"......they are an odd out because of the amount of people willing to pay a subscription versus a flat rate of percentage per sale.

Also I've checked on one of these "Subby services and they charge a purchase fee of 1kL's on top of either a large subscription fee or a fee based on sales for the vendor per month.   Sometimes the grass is really greener over a neighbor's grass when it is over a septic tank.  Not to speak ill will against the vendor selling this system but to suggest checking into the details before thinking a subby is better than a reputable system.

[CasperTech Acquisition Discussion]

Actually Norsk I have had the feature turned off in preferences to send chat etc to my email account. 

[CasperTech Acquisition Discussion]

Awesome!  Thanks Sammy  😊

[CasperTech Acquisition Discussion]

I have a question on the gift cards offered through Caspervend....are these going to be added/altered/changed so they can be used in the MP also?

[CasperTech Acquisition Discussion]

23 hours ago, Mikal Brinner said:

I'm a high end seller.  Certainly not 10K per unit but 2K per unit and for me, we do pretty well..for us.  A rate is an income tax.  A fee is a transaction fee.  The transaction  cost of utilizing any vendor service is impacted by the arbirtrary process of setting a price.  You're right about volume and in the end perhaps there is balance but that is not a principled argument.   

If we are talking about transaction costs, those using a service more frequently than others cost more to the owner of the system than those who use the system less frequently.  Those with lower volume, pay the same but yes, less than those with higher transaction volumes.  When rates are applied as a means of LL recouping or paying for expenses, those rates become income taxes calculated on the arbitrary process of a vendor setting a price.

For customers, will added transaction costs increase what you pay.  Maybe.  Unlike RL where commodities and items people need can be priced to include fluctuations in costs, SL has not worked that way very well.  For me, I'll end up eating the cost but then again, I have seen some vendors in SL who are were fairly mercenary with pricing.

Again, my position is that LL should consult with all vendor types (high end price/lower volume and low end price/high volume) and find where there is common ground if LL choose to collect some form of transaction income. Allow vendors and LL to come to terms and find a solution which is fair.  There are other vendor systems and certainly other ways to transact business in and out of world though as a vendor, CV is easier for customers to access and for vendors to place products on the market.

A solution is transaction pricing scales for Premium Plus, Premium and "nonmember" avatars.  LL has already eliminated transaction fees for uploads for Premium Plus as an incentive to pay more. It can be an incentive to increase membership level.

Final point, LL has not opened the door to transaction pricing.  In a year, they may.  I just hope LL has the presence of mind to engage community members (specifically vendors) when discussing pricing.

I'm not going to mince words about "rates and fee's" concerning taxes, fees, etc., simply because that discussion involves two separate entitles... Linden Labs and Tillia.

As for the differences between high versus low volume and lower cost versus higher cost the effect is the same in world and the MP....all of us have to pay the same no matter what the MP and our vendors charge.  Equally, we ALL have to pay for rental fees in sim space (unless a friend offers a free space on their sim) and we all have to pay the LL/Tillia pipers.  Your claim of wanting "fair treatment" really sounds more like wanting special treatment simply because you sell higher priced items.  LL has created an equal playing field based on how much money each member is making.  Besides last time I checked, the more money made in real life equates to higher taxes the government takes.  And last time I checked....corporations and other companies also will voice their having to pay more and want special treatment in tax loopholes etc which only angers the populace because of unfair treatment in taxation.

....or am I wrong in seeing someone feeling more entitled than the rest of the members selling their wares?

[CasperTech Acquisition Discussion]

First major change I noticed...I no longer receive email notifications on sales.....

[CasperTech Acquisition Discussion]

4 hours ago, Innula Zenovka said:

Either I have misunderstood what you're saying or you're mistaken about something.

LL is responsible for collecting and paying various US sales taxes and, in some other jurisdictions, VAT, on certain transactions with residents and has to provide the various governments with an accounting of the relevant sales.

Whether it collects the monies it forwards directly from the individuals concerned at the point of sale,. or indirectly as an element of its income from all sources, is a matter for LL.

What LL can't do, and hasn't ever done, is "thumb its nose" at the government, say "We're not paying your stinking taxes" and refuse to send them the taxes it owes.

Yes, you are missing the fact that "Tillia" handles all the tax issues, fees, etc., and is a separate entity than LL because LL had to outsource on the reason of the time involved in putting too many resources to tallying all of this up.  Also what you are missing is the fees before hitting Tillia, such as the MP fee (10%), cost of exchanging L's to RL cash......THEN it goes to Tillia to tabulate what goes to member's government, fees,  etc before it goes to paypal.  Caspervend did not charge any % fee if the full versions were purchased from Casper's store.  Only a 5% fee was assessed on the free products.

[CasperTech Acquisition Discussion]

On 9/16/2022 at 6:29 AM, Gordon Nadezda said:

Wasn't CasperTech already taking a percentage of in-world sales? If so, wouldn't it be OK for SecondLife's creator to receive that percentage? 

Caspervend only took a percentage of 5% for their free versions.  If Casper's full versions were purchased then no additional fees were added.

[CasperTech Acquisition Discussion]

5 hours ago, Mikal Brinner said:

Why is 10% the magic number?  10% looks a lot different to creators who sell shoes for 250L versus those who sell vehicles at 2000L or buildings at 5000L.  The cost to LL isn't any different but some are carrying a greater burden than others, per transaction. I'm not arguing with you about rates necessarily but it is about being fair per transaction rather than income tax.   

For premium users, perhaps a differential or scaled LL fee or  no fee/rate at all.  Make it an enticement for people to pay in to a higher level of membership.  I'm not saying that LL should not get a return on their investment but if transactions fee Casper, along comes LL charging a fee is similar to making a toll road out of a road users already paid to use.  This is not the only issue and I agree, people are stoking worries which are not apparent.  Still, a cost of doing business impacts business.

My position, to be clear, is for current Casper users to have a seat at the table when discussing policies going forward and while LL is focused on a smooth integration, that is not the only topic of consideration for the future.  When bringing people to the table, people who sell low cost items and those who sell higher cost items should be heard .

Mikal, the difference between a 10k LD item and a 250 LD item is the 10 K item is going to sell far less volume than the 250 item because one is high end such as a expensive home or a surfing wave and the other is lower end which can include clothing and other items that sell more in volume,  This higher volume actually carries a higher zap than the one selling in the higher end items at the lower volume depending on the amount of the differences between the two.  I have chatted with creators in the high end....some are fortunate to have a larger amount of sales such as Caspervend.  I believe creators such as Casper Warden are the exception to the rule, because he and others like him have hit the "sweet spot" of popular items, whereas the majority of other high end sellers are still trying to find their "groove."  Either the or.....everyone pays their dues to the MP Monster like it or not and the amounts paid in fees are still the same....10% of all transactions MP wise.

[CasperTech Acquisition Discussion]

I have to admit I am a bit uneasy on the acquisition because of the aforementioned possibility of  "Adding the 10% fee already used by the Marketplace for all sales" discussed earlier by Faith and others.  If the standard set by Casper is kept in only charging for initial fees to own a license to use and the free format charges the percentage then fantastic and no harm no foul.  However, if this does change with the fees similar to the MP,  I can see a lot of discontent in the masses.

P.S.  I seen earlier someone mentioning licenses purchased before the acquisition would be able to shut down any payment to LL for "fees" (I guess that is the way I am reading the post by Charlotte...apologies if I misread the post).  Nothing is absolute in the world of SL, as changes can be made to the existing and if not.....all LL has to do is void the one and force the new.  Yes this would cause irritation in the masses.  However, I doubt the doors of LL are going to be stormed by a horde of pitchfork wielding villagers is going to happen to change the mind of "BeanCounters Linden."  We as members can only hope LL does not alter some features all of us have enjoyed over the the years.

With all this said, I do like the idea of having LL step in to help Casper's "baby" grow and become even more stable (Yes, Casper has done an amazing job at the current system in repairing issues that have popped up) by having a larger team to ensure a smoother system with even greater potential.  I hope the best for this acquisition and thank Casper and Patch for seeking to better a already great system and making it even better.