[List of Creators Producing BoM-Compliant Goods]

Let me just say if I have given anyone the impression that Slink doesn't support their customers it was not my intent and maybe my context was not clear.  Let me be clear on this over the 3 years that I have owned the body Slink support has been helpful, quick and responsive anytime I have contacted them.  I have found their support reps and team to be eager to help their customer and make sure they are happy.  Slink is the gold standard for support

I guess I have been having frustration with adapting to a major change to how mesh work.  I am sure in time as BOM matures and more vendors and customer are on board with it things will be standardize with mesh clothing on the body.  There will be growing pains to adapt to this change and to get old mesh clothing ready for easy wear.  That being said once this change is behind use BOM will greatly enhance our SL experience and out are better off for having it.

Using an Omega BOM applier on the Slink non Redux body will work as it does the other bodies.  I have learned that Slink will consider this to be an acceptable supported method for BOM even on the non Redux body so it shouldn’t be a concern of issue and I stand corrected thinking otherwise

I do deeply regret that I have offended anyone that makes the product as Slink is the finest mesh that I have ever use and the skill and talents of the developer as well as the efforts of all the involved with running Slink is to be applauded.  I do come across strong with my opinions and that is just who I am by nature.  That being said I am not beyond reason and nor incapable of revising my views when necessary or unable to say if I have misspoke or made error on points of things I say.

I wish Slink continued success with its products as they have always been top notch and are deserving recognition for being quality products that are worth their customer’s money and they have always offered and continued to give outstanding service instead of forgetting those customers once the purchase has been made.

 

[List of Creators Producing BoM-Compliant Goods]

2 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Do you know what Signature did to "convert" their body to BOM? They offered a functionality that will texture it with the textures the BOM system replaces with the avatar bake. That's all they did. It sounds like they didn't even bother to change it to use alpha masking so it can't use worn alphas.

Applying those very same textures is exactly - exactly - what an Omega or any other applier does.

I'm ok with that because Signature is officially supporting that for their body.  If I did that with Slink and have issues Slink support will tell me I am out luck since they don't officially support that on their bodies.  I accept solutions that I can get support for the vendors I buy from.

[List of Creators Producing BoM-Compliant Goods]

1 hour ago, Skell Dagger said:

You didn't read what I wrote, did you? And, if you did, then you didn't understand it. That's okay.

I read and understand perfectly well what you mean I am not not interested in a Omega applier to put BOM on a body that does have BOM support.  It is you who doesn't get it and your condensing attitude doesn't invalidate my point of view or that others who have the same point of view that I have on the matter of the missing Alpha cuts management system on the Slink body or other BOM mesh bodies.  Go preach to someone who actually cares about your point of view about Omega BOM hacks because you won't change how I feel about that subject. 

1 hour ago, Skell Dagger said:

"But I hear you asking – “but what about the current body and all those appliers I have purchased or made over the last few years??” They aren’t going anywhere! The current body has been labelled “Classic” and you will find it packed along with the Redux update as a separate unpacker option. We have decided to leave a significant amount of time before we even consider removing it from the pack, to give people a chance to adjust and make the transition at their own pace. And even then, everything “Classic” will continue to work for as long as you want it to."
—Siddean Munro, on the SLinkStyle blog, announcing the Redux body 

- The Slink Classic body is V2.0.7 - 04 December 2018 (this is not the current body and it does not have BOM support. V2.07 was out in 2018 and was just renamed Slink Classic body with the same version number as before the remain when they started offering the BOM bundle with that body and the BOM Redux body)

- Slink Physique Male Mesh Body Bundle (Redux) V4.0.0 - V4.0.0 - Last Update 03 July 2019 (this new body and it has the BOM support built in - does not use some Omega applier hack to put BOM textures on the body)

I have been very clear on this and it is you who haven't understood what I have written.  As I have said multiple time bodies such and Signature have BOM bodies have both BOM and an Alpha cuts management system for the body that can be controlled by the HUD.  Slink on it BOM Redux bodies removed/left out the Alpha cuts management system and expect their customer use to create and use Alpha mask (photo edit and pay to upload) or use the V2.0.7 Slink Classic body which doesn't support BOM to wear mesh.  Using an Omega applier to put BOM on the Slink Classic body V2.07 is essentially a hack and not supported by officially supported by Linden Labs or Slink as method for applying BOM Textures regardless of if it works or not and your opinion on that doesn't change that fact.  I don't want to have to chose between using 2 version on the body: a non BOM body for mesh clothing to have a proper Alpha cuts management system or using the BOM Redux body and having to manually create Alpha masks which is a nightmare and costs me additional money to wear clothes that used to work just fine.  2 bodies isn't a solutions and other meshes such as Signature did the correct thing and added BOM functionality to their bodies and while also keeping the Alpha cuts management system because this is a better solution for it customers to continue to use their mesh clothing they have paid for and own.

[List of Creators Producing BoM-Compliant Goods]

9 minutes ago, Skell Dagger said:

Did you use skin appliers on your classic Slink body? If so, then you're doing nothing different by using the Omega BOM applier. It's not an "unsupported hack"; it's simply a skin applier. The only difference between that skin applier and one by any skin store is that the skin it's applying comprises the BOM bake textures. You could even make it yourself, by picking up the free Omega developer kit, downloading the BOM bake textures, and putting together your own Omega BOM applier.

The Slink redux body is just pre-textured with the exact same BOM bake textures, so using that would be the equivalent of never using any other skin applier and sticking instead to the default skins included with a mesh body's HUD.

Not going to use an Slink ans well as SL unsupported hack to put BOM on mesh.  The classic body is end of life an Slink has said that themselves.  If I want BOM I do not intend to use an applier because that is not how BOM works and defeats the purpose of BOM.  Signature did the BOM the right way in respect to existing mesh clothing, and Slink should not have removed the Alpha cuts management system and put burden as well as cost on its customer to use mesh clothing on their BOM bodies.

[List of Creators Producing BoM-Compliant Goods]

4 hours ago, Gabriele Graves said:

There's no buggy behaviour in the alpha cuts on my Maitreya body.  Sure lag can affect it working but honestly I have never been found that to be a problem because the lag would have to be extreme and I would have to want to change mesh clothing which will also be affected by the lag.  The alpha cuts work everywhere I care about changing clothes.  So I am in the camp of wanting to retain the alpha cuts.  No way am I going to make alphas for over 6000 items of clothing and I would expect my inventory is lightweight compared to many who might feel similarly.

You like me realize how much burden it will be not having and Alpha cuts management system and how burdensome making TONS of Alpha masks will be.  Now if we could only get mesh body creators like Slink to come to their sense and realize that a BOM mesh body without an Alpha cuts management system is insane and that creating tons of Alpha cuts at cost to their customers is unacceptable!

3 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

 

Thennn some people will like not using the alpha cut system and some people will decide they want to keep it. And there's nothing keeping both groups from doing what they want.

Now let's all sing "Kumbaya."

You could not be more wrong.  There is something keeping both groups from doing what they want when Slink designed their BOM Redux body to not have an Alpha cuts management system!  Don't say use the classic Slink body because that means I cannot use BOM then since the classic body doesn't have BOM functionality and Slink plans no further updates for it.  Also don't say use an Omega BOM applier on the classic Slink body (this is asking for bugw and I do not need now want an unsupported hack to apply BOM textures on a non BOM body).

[List of Creators Producing BoM-Compliant Goods]

51 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Maitreya hasn't changed a thing with their body, and haven't said that they're planning on removing the alpha cut system.

I just going by the information in Tazzie Tuque post that I quoted but I guess I misunderstood what she was  saying about Alpha cuts with the Maitreya BOM body.  That being said she does state in the that in the following post that she agrees that any BOM mesh such as Slink still need to have Alphas cut for mesh clothing as this is needed by customers and by clothing creators

 

2 hours ago, Tazzie Tuque said:

I have been following this for some time now,  I have messed with BOM using the Maitreya hud on my original Maitreya body..  and the conclusion I have come to is  that any BOM mesh body should have and needs to have also the alpha cuts hud to remain.  No one is going to want to mess with alpha layers for BOM,  and that includes many clothing makers who make mesh clothing.  So I do hope the body makers are paying attention.. and NOT digging their heels in as it seems Slink is with the mens body at least.  Customers are NOT going to mess with trying to make alpha layers you can be sure of that..  There may be a few like those who have commented in here that have no problem with making their own alpha layers, but the majority of SL folks are not going to want to be messing with that..  they will be looking for the simplest and most straight forward method of using BOM that does not screw up wearing their previously bought mesh clothing.. 

Slink for fact has removed their Alpha cuts management system on their BOM Redux mesh bodies and I stand by all statements that I have made so far about that poorly decision that negatively will affects their customers experience using mesh

[List of Creators Producing BoM-Compliant Goods]

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[List of Creators Producing BoM-Compliant Goods]

22 hours ago, Tazzie Tuque said:

I have been following this for some time now,  I have messed with BOM using the Maitreya hud on my original Maitreya body..  and the conclusion I have come to is  that any BOM mesh body should have and needs to have also the alpha cuts hud to remain.  No one is going to want to mess with alpha layers for BOM,  and that includes many clothing makers who make mesh clothing.  So I do hope the body makers are paying attention.. and NOT digging their heels in as it seems Slink is with the mens body at least.  Customers are NOT going to mess with trying to make alpha layers you can be sure of that..  There may be a few like those who have commented in here that have no problem with making their own alpha layers, but the majority of SL folks are not going to want to be messing with that..  they will be looking for the simplest and most straight forward method of using BOM that does not screw up wearing their previously bought mesh clothing.. 

That makes 4 of us now on this thread (you Sparkly Rainbow  and as well as Skell Dagger's comments).   The only reason most SL users haven't been speaking about this until now is most of them didn't know because most are running Firestorm and until 3 days ago hadn't ever experienced or tried using BOM before.  In the coming days and weeks many SL user are going to awaken to this stupid and inconsiderate move on the part of mesh body creators such at Slink and Maitreya and those customer are going to be very unhappy and angry.  As both you and I have said neither the customer who have the bodies already (or potential new customers) as well as clothing makers are going to want to spend extra time creating Apha masks when you can just spend less time & effort making clothes for BOM mesh bodies that still have a Alpha cuts management system  in their HUDS.

[List of Creators Producing BoM-Compliant Goods]

1 hour ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Well, you're not going to get it. The maker of the Slink body said basically in so many words that a big reason they were excited by BOM was to get away from the scripting and cutting necessary for the alpha system.

I know that this isn't something that we are going to get from Slink and they have already decided it's all BOM or nothing with the BOm Redux body instead of making sure that mesh clothing was still easy to use and not burdensome for their customers using the BOM Redux body.  I can still voice my opinion and concerns on this matter as a 3 year plus Slink customer.

What will happen is many existing Slink users such as myself are going to change to other mesh bodies such as Signature that has a Alpha cuts management system for their BOM bodies and new customers will avoid Slink because mesh clothing will be difficult to use.  Also the clothing creators/vendor will stop making products for Slink because they have to spend more time making Alpha massk just for the Slink BOM Redux body where as they can just rely on the Alpha cuts management system in those other BOM bodies.  Slink is have been losing market share for a while now and this is just going drive them total irrelevance and might be a nail in the coffin.

Mesh clothing isn't going away because BOM the face is that paint in clothes is still very limited since you can sculpt, and contour it or create actual depth of have clothing that flows with body movement.  BOM is not a replace all for mesh clothing and Slink is making mistake betting that it is.

[List of Creators Producing BoM-Compliant Goods]

44 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

You said you couldn't use BOM on a Slink Classic body. I pointed out that you can. I've been doing it for months. What "Bakes on Mesh functions" from the HUD will you be looking for? There's almost nothing that the HUD needs to manage.

As it happens, my male alt has a Slink body, so I'm aware a lot of Slink male clothing comes from templates, includes standard size versions, and, for those standard size versions, already includes the alphas.

As I said I don't want a workaround or a hack, I want a proper Alpha cuts management system that doesn't put the burden and cost on the customers to wear their existing mesh clothing with the Slink BOM Redux body.  I want an official Sink provided and supported Alpha cuts management system on the Slink BOM Redux body just as Signature has with their BOM bodies.  Slink needs to see this from the customers perspective as to how difficult and a burden their decision to remove the Alpha cut from their body is to their customer who want to wear the mesh clothing that they have spent a ton of money on over the years.  The customers do no want to stop using or throw away the mesh clothing they already own just because BOM is here now nor do they want to manually photo edit alphas masks and pay to upload them into SL.  Most clothing never came with Alpha mask just as Sparkly Rainbow I have pointed out (I wear only the Slink male body and have purchase enough clothing over the year for the body that I can say with certainty that not having Alphas mask include is the norm and getting mail mesh clothing with Alpha mask prior to BOM is the exception).

It took the Slink support rep 4 tries and nearly an hour to make a proper Alpha mask that worked with my mesh outfit I showed them as an example  (they rep offered to do that and I did not ask, demand or expect them to create this) for me when I contacted Slink support.  This proves as I said that wearing mesh clothing with Slink now is nightmarish, time consuming and put the burden put on their customers.  These Alpha masks are not easier for customer nor are they realistic and proper solution for wearing mesh clothing on the Slink body.  There is no way you can say after 4 tries and nearly an hour from Slink themselves that Alphas masks are easier, less time consuming and less costly to the customer than the Alpha cuts management system that Slink removed/left out from the Slink BOM Redux body.

[List of Creators Producing BoM-Compliant Goods]

2 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

You can use BOM on the Slink "Classic" bodies by using an Omega applier to put the BOM textures on it.

I am not going to use some unsupported method to get BOM appied on the Slink Classic body.  Also doing that means you can't use the new Slink BOM HUD to manage BOM functions on the body.  I don't want a workaround or a hack, I want a proper Alpha cuts management system that doesn't put the burnden and cost on the customers to wear their existing mesh clothing with the Slink BOM Redux body.

 

[List of Creators Producing BoM-Compliant Goods]

On 9/1/2019 at 2:05 PM, Skell Dagger said:

I think they've done it this way for now because this is a 'test version' of the body. They've put it out as quickly as they can, and right now there's still so much content on the market that makes use of alpha cuts that they were probably hedging their bets. The menswear market is lousy enough right now, so I'm glad that they've offered this as an option, at least initially. The CI of the body has still reduced drastically, even with the alpha cuts still in place, but I doubt that we'll see a sub-100 complexity Signature body any time soon.

Yes, this was the correct this to do and Signature was smart (I confirmed yesterday that Signature Geralt still has an Alpha cuts management system with the BOM update body) and realized that BOM does not mean you can throw out the Alpha cuts management system because wearing mesh clothing still requires you to hide Alpha sections and that most mesh clothing never came with Alpha masks.  Slink on the other hand decided to remove the Alpha cuts from its BOM Redux body and now trying to wear mesh with that body clothing is nightmarish.  As a result of Slink removing the Alpha cuts wearing mesh is like a bad joke and it is very confusing, time consuming and frustrating for customers.  The customers do not want to sit around manually creating their own Alphas mask by photo editing and then pay to upload them into SL.

The short fact of the matter is the Slink is out of touch with reality and refuses to see this from the customers perspective as to how difficult and a burden their decision to remove the Alpha cut from their body is to their customer who want to wear the mesh clothing that they have spent a ton of money on over the years.  The customers do no want to stop using or throw away the mesh clothing they already own just because BOM is here now.

 

On 9/1/2019 at 2:10 PM, Sparkly Rainbow said:

I prefer the body to still have the alpha cuts.  Most of my mesh clothing did NOT come with alpha masks and I am not interested in having to start making masks for all my mesh clothing.  I am hoping that all the bodies will give that option to the end-user.  

Exactly!  This is what I told Slink support last night.  It is a undo burden to put on their customer to expect them to manually create their their own alpha masks by photo editing and then pay to upload these masks in SL

The Slink support rep told me to go ask vendors for Alpha's.  I know from experience the most vendors are not going to to back and update their existing clothing or care about some item you bought a long time ago from them. As Slink told me it isn't up to the them to create Alpha masks if the vendors don't provide them.  That then leaves the burden on the customer and this is not acceptable and shows total disrespect to their customers who have invested a lot of money into their bodies and on product for the body (clothing, skins, tattoos, etc.).

As I told the Slink support rep yesterday, I really do love my Slink mesh, but having to create alphas manually is sort of a deal breaker for continued use of Slink (I have used Slink since 2016 even with other mesh  body options but this change is unacceptable especially when other bodies do still have a proper Alpha cut management system) .  I am not trying to be difficult or rude, but if someone see a Signature BOM body with an Alpha cuts management system and then compares it to Slink and are told to create their own Alpha's by photo editing and on top of that pay to upload each alpha mask they create the customer isn't going to choose to buy the Slink body because that is added frustration and cost to use mesh clothes with the Slink body.  The response from the Slink support rep was "we have had the product out for three weeks, you are actually my first IM of this magnitude on it".  I  am sure more Slink customers will feel the same way when they wear the BOM body and find out how hard it is now to wear mesh clothing properly and the above quoted post is proof of that.

Don't tell me to look on the MP for pre-made alpha masks as I already tired and the problem was that the cut were in places other than where I need them to be (that meant parts of the body got hidden that shouldn't have been and other parts that I needed hidden still were visible).

Also do not tell me to wear the classic body and that changes the look of my AV because I cannot the use the BOM skins, BOM tattoos and BOM clothing that I wanted to be able to use again now that BOM is live.  Doing that means that I don't get any BOM benefits so using 2 different type of Slink bodies is not a solution (classic mesh and BOM Redux).