JayWaters

While some may consider me a troll. Consider this. I build and repair botique custom gaming rigs for a living. That being said there are some misconceptions being told here in this thread. Firstly) SL can be very CPU intensive. When a an object is rezzed in an open world, the CPU must recalculate the co ordinates every time you teleport or even move within the same sim and ajust the co ordinates of every other prim, it will start with those within drawing distance first. This heavily cripples single threaded single core CPUs and it is somewhat better with hyprethreading on dual core CPUs. A true quad core being ideal. If building a new machine for SL today, a Minimum of a haswell or skylake generation I-3 will be adequate on a budget but a true quad core like an i5 in either haswell or skylake would be as much as anyone needs or would be of any benefit in SL. A modern i-7 would not help your SL or mostly any gaming experience if you already have 4 true cores with a healthy single core performance speed. Secondly) There are 9 series and 10 series cards for all budgets. A low end 10 series card will outperfom ANY card in the 7 series aside from perhaps a 780ti in SL. When looking at Nvidia cards, the first number is the generation the 7's are newer than the 6's so on and so forth. The second two numbers is where it is in the entry level, mid range level or high range. 50 series are entry level, 60s and 70s are low-mid to high mid range cards. 80s being top tier (or of course TitanX, but that is extreme not high end). A 1060 today offers at least 970 performance and is much closer to a 980 than it is as close to a 970. That being said a 120 dollar 1050ti is pretty on par with a 780ti, and has modern technological advancments in several areas. Those include power consumption, (requiring less power draw )a nd offering a choice that would not require most computers to upgrade their PSU to one with either more power OR the actual plug with pins that is required on most MID RANGE cards in additon to the pci e slot to provide the power. Thirdly) while a GPU in most cases is the best place to upgrade, your GPU in fact can bog down and cripple your CPU being the source of the bottleneck by relaying the data required faster than the CPU can deal with it. This is why quad cores do so well on SL. If you take a GPU, the same exact GPU and bench test it using several CPUS you wil see the place where more CPU no longer helps. If your CPU is already 100% adding a GPU will help in one way, it will take a load of your integrated chipset thus in theory giving it more breathing room. Truth is that itt may or may not help at all if your GPU is powerful enough to bottleneck the CPU. This can and often does happen, not just the other way around. If you want to run Ultra on SL with all the sliders cranked all the shadows and ambient lighting ani aliasing and antiscopic filtering with as decent FPS as your going to get? The two machines below are what I would conisder the min to enjoy that experience and the maximum that would not do any good but cost more money if you exceeded. Min CPU:I3 6100 GPU: Nvidia Gtx 970 OR gtx 1050ti RAM: 8gb of DDR4 running 1800mhz at least PSU: 450W Bronze+ Certified the above can easily be built for around 400 dollars give or take depending on choice in components like motherboard and case cooling system etc. It is still going to be better than any console in any game and will do very well in SL, you may have to turn off some of the features in some laggy areas, but for the most part you will be fine never lowering the slider below ultra. Your CPU will hit 100% from time to time but you mostly wont notice it as more than a frame stutter in world. Max CPU-i5 6400 GPU: GTX 980, GTX 980ti or GTX 1060 6gb version RAM: 16BG of DDR4 1800mhz PSU: 550w Gold+ Certified. While you could certainly spend more on components of "higher end" than this, the returns would be minimal and in my opinion a complete waste. For example a 1070 or 1080 or Titan X while being generally better faster cards, they arent going to help you much in SL, none of the 3 chosed for the best max for SL system will do better or worse either, just get the one you find the better deal on, or the newest if you play other games as a 1060 with 6b is going to do as good as any other at 1080p, only consider anything higher than a 1060 if your screen resolution is greater than 1080p or its a complete waste of money. While more RAM in most games doesn't help, in SL it does because many things are poorly optimized and use the system memory rather than Vram for texturing. This is why often a high end GPU would appear to struggleif the CPU and RAM are obsolete and working too hard. It may not even be running at 20% as most of the burden is still on the system memory configuration which is dictated by the CPU not the GPU in this case. The "max" for SL system above would cost between 800-1200 dollar depending on how fancy you get with things like storage (SSD). Cable sleeving, case, choice of modular or semi modular PSU, case fans, motherboard choice etc as this would be a true mid range custom gaming rig. It borders on massive overkill if all you do is play SL but it surely will not the be the source of any issues you are dealing with in world. Spending more will not get you more speaking strictly of SL and most games in fact unless you insist on 4k resolutions then that is a different story entirely. This system is more than adequate even at 2k resolutions. I have built and tested both of these system above with great results in SL in the past two months, the i5 is a bit more crisp and snappier but the i3 is not unsatisfactory at all with all settings cranked, it just has more fps drops and the occassional frame stutter from the cpu hitting 100% occasionally although even then it is rarely. I cannot recommend an AMD processor or GPU at this time.The Skylake i-3 is better at everything , even AMDS most expensive CPU with it's 8 cores simply isnt as good as a Skylake i3 and will cost more. For Gpu's I tested an RX480 Sapphire NItro OC with 8gb of VRAM in both systems. Ambient lighting causes the wierd screen tearing in SL that is complained about in several threads here with many different R series AMD cards. I do not know why some have the issue and others do not. This is a GREAT GPU in everything BUT SL. It is a situation where AMD doesnt see the user base of SL to be of any influence to fix their drivers on their end and LL refusing to aknowlege this problem on thier end as it is something LL COULD fix easily by intergrating Vulcan which is freely available from AMD. SO LL cares little for AMD card owners and AMD cares little if you have a good experience on SL. I just cannot recommend anything from team red as of the current writing of this post. I look forward to building and testing new system with the Zen line of AMD processors and the Vega line of GPUs when they are finally released and I have high hopes. Note on PSU power: Older generation cards AND CPUs require much more power than current generational offerings. You may find your old PSU is more than capable of running something current while an outdated older version card of less GPU power and VRAM would also require a PSU added to the expense of the deal you think you are getting on a 3 or 4 generations old graphics card. It is usually NOT worth it. Just get a gtx1050 and plug it in. If your system cannot handle a 1050 it is probably best to think about upgrading the ENTIRE system and giving yours to a friend or someone who wants to wait 30 minutes for Windows to boot who doesn't play any games. Also the 450W Bronze is the minumum I would purchase today. The system outlined actually has a max power draw of around 270 Watts meaning even a 300W would be enough, but a 450W would give you some future proofness if you wanted to say add a second card in SLI or a bunch of case fans or storage, things like that. The diffference in price between a 300w and 450w Bronze rated supply by any reputable brand is negligable, let go of the 5 bucks.On the other hand, everything is becoming more power efficient, I think 750W is the absolute most that 99.9% of people will ever need moving from here forward. People just like to spend big money on big numbers too often it seems. Believe me when I tell you that the marketing teams of those products are well aware of this fact and the diminishing returns past a certain point are not of any value at all other than the big numbers spent and in benchmarks. In reality the only number that now matters is they have more of your money and you have less of it. PS: the one who said I was a troll used numbers that were very skewed in order to prove their "rightness" when in fact it was ONE benchmark and the card performed below 51 other better choices you could make...more than hald of those costing the same or less to buy. Modern and Mid range is determined by what is available NOW on your current budget. buying that card would be a complete waste of money as it is rendered nearly obsolete and is obliterated in performance by a modern low end 1050 GPU costing less. Ranking in the 50s is no proof that this is a modern mid range card, it means its the 50th+ suckiest card compared to the 1st. There are over 50 better cards than it and many of those are obsolete by something in the top 10-12 cards for the same money.When considering modern, the what to buy list number 50 isnt even a consideration to most who understand performance statistics benchmarks computers and technology. I am sure the mid range Chevy 1984 Impala was a heck of a car...for a mid range one in 1984. Today a little korean tin can will whip its ass in prices features and performance and it is low end. However there was a time when a DVD player was 800 dollars and now can be bought for 20 dollars and have blue ray. That's how technology works, each generation is faster better and less expensive to produce. That 800 dollar dvd player from the past may work nearly as good as a 20 dollar cheap blu ray player today, it MIGHT be the 50th best one with all the choices, it is still obsolete and overpriced, even used. Modern Mid Range Cards include GTX 1060, GTX 1070, GTX 970, GTX 980, RX470, RX480 RX390, RX290 as the only ones to even consider AT all when making a buy list today..making them modern. Anything less than these CURRENT GENERATION thus MODERN offerings is consdired entry level in fact a couple would still be considered entry level by most enthusiasts for a gaming PC. Compare those numbers to a 6 series or 7 series nvidia card and let me know what you come up with. Laughing yet or satisfied with your 5 dollar savings by choosing number 50? If you think ranking 50 makes something mid range then clearly you do not understand how scaling works. There are mid range cards in the top 10, there are not that many "High End" options to consider.I can only thik of 6 possibly 7 cards that would be considered high end by todays standards, meaning the 8th choice is easily in the mid range category. High End- 400-1200 dollars Mid Range- 225-400 dollars Entry Level- 100-225 dollars Less than 100- your integrated chip blows the doors off it if it is "modern" there is no point in upgrading your GPU. You would be best upgrading to a better processor and platform and save your money toward it. 100 dollar cards are garbage and would result in a performance LOSS versus just using a reasonably modern integrated chipset on the CPU

Trolling? Ok then Get a 700 series,don't take my advice now and then LATER step up to more ram a better cpu like at least an i3 or I5 and a GTX 970 or 1060 where you will finally actually enjoy being on SL But I'm a troll, do it your way.

The GTX 760 ranks 51. There are MODERN MId Range cards in the top ten...Modern is the key factor here A gtx 970 is a modern mid range graphics card a gtx 1060 is a modern mid range graphics card. You get under the top 20 cards you are in obsolete land. Nobody cares about them. Canyou still even buy a NEW 7 series in 2016? Oh yes you can I just checked newegg, you can get a 750ti but for that money you can get a much better card today. Nobdoy wants it, thats why it is still in stock almost 4 years later. Keep in mind the key word is MODERN, I dont see anyone putting anything less than a 970 in any new system being built today if you really cant swing the extra 20 bucks I guess a 960 might happen (I am completely ignoring AMD offerings since all I see is problems with those on SL forums etc and for the money if you play SL the Nvidia is going to be better at Open GL so that eliminates AMD offerings completely in my view...for SL)

Surprisingly a 250 dollar gtx 1060 is as good as a 980 (at 1080p) which still costs more in nearly everything. I wouldn't buy a 9 series anything for more than 250 bucks (aside from maybe a ti version)

You are going to be limited on what that power supply can push. power - 280, I assume you mean watts...you might need to upgrade that to get a decent GPU in that machine. The GTX 1060 for example recommends at least a 500w PSU although a 420W will probably do the job.

"Most desktop computer, are better in handling SL, because you can add a better grahpic card, and they have better cooling." this is MOSTLY true, however laptop CPU's have ALWAYS been slower than desktops. They are designed for power efficiency at a cost to performance. A modern skylake i3 6100 desktop(the lowest end i3) out performs any haswell (previous gen) i5 and most i7s in a laptop in nearly all things. People don't understand this. They assume i3 is low end and i7 is high end...this is true when you compare apples to apples but laptops to desktops is like comparing apples to walnuts...totally different things with totally different uses. Go compare any laptop CPU versus desktops on any of the large benchmark sites and it is so easy to see.

In terms of bang-for-the-buck, the i5 is the best deal. The i7 costs 50% more for 25% more performance - generalizing. You would see NO difference between an i5 6500k or an i7 6700K in SL. A Skylake i7 gives you more lanes yadda yadda but they are both going to clock the same (depending on the silicone lottery of course) and perfom identical in gaming and Secondlife. The only benefit anyone would really see with a skylake i7 is in video rendering or maybe some in Photoshop and the like, in gaming..completely useless and waste, there will be NO performance increase in SL which is not going to take advantage of anything beyond the i5's 4 cores and hyperthreading isn't going to do jack if we are specifically talking about just Secondlife. I am currently builiding both a skylake i5 and i7 and will benchmark both with the same set up (GPU, RAM etc) and I bet there is not a single notable difference based on what I know about these CPU's. I will eat my hat and a little crow if I am wrong but I am 99.9% certain there will be 0 difference. I really doubt a gtx 1060 or 1070 or even a 1080 is going to perform any better or worse in SL with either CPU. Do the lindens do something amazing to Open GL that would allow it to benefit from more than 4 threads/cores? Considering it is still running on a 12 year old platform I really really doubt it as even dual cores back then were a rare bird.

"a modern mid range GPU. It may bottleneck a GTX 760 and better cards" Just curious why anyone would think a GTX 760 in August 2016 is modern or mid range modern or mid range would be a GTX 970 or GTX 1060 these days a 760 is now 3 generations old and there isn't anythng modern about it. It is a low end card, it was low end the day it was released 3 or 4 years ago.

Memory: 3711 MB 4 gigs of Ram is another reason nobody seemed to notice in 2016 you should have at least 8gb, 16 would be better Still the above is true but SL is a wierd wild animal and uses BOTH CPU and GPU rendering, you would also see an increase just by adding by todays standards the minimum of 8gb of RAM, just putting it out there.

There are many reasons to stay logged on SL overnight. I sleep with my wifey every night in SL because we can't always be together in RL for example. You assume it has to do with making Linden, it might not be.

I cannot say for sure, but SL isnt even optimized for a single card, I doubt it is for two..lol and depending on your resolution, your 980 is probably doing as good as you will ever get out of SL a 960 would be pretty much as good as it gets 1080p, there is a point of diminishing returns..I really doubt anyone on a 1080p monitor on a GTX1080 is getting any better perfomance that somone on a GTX 960 in SL honestly. SL is SL and your dealing with sims on 12 year old servers that cannot support the bandwidth and abilities most modern computers have. I dont know if you are old enough to remember the game called Pong? Yeah fancy new skylake i7 on Windows 10 or windows 3.11 on a Pentium 1...its still Pong. Truth is in MOST cases, SLI is made just for Youtube and synthetic benchmarks bragging rights for people with too much expendable cash as most games..by most I mean like 98.9% are NOT optimized for SLI because thats about the same percent of people not running two cards in SLI.

I planned to get the Samsung 950 Pro M.2 Nvme Thanks for reporting back and PS, I refuse to use anything other than Firestorm. Singularity, I launched it once ..I dont care if I was getting 165 fps at ultra, it wouldnt be enough to make me switch to that ungodly viewer with its DOS looking ass.

Intel HD Graphics 5300-um no..I mean unless you want to run your graphics at low to medium setting and get 12fps, then it would be ok I guess..if like seeing stuff and waiting 20 minutes for the person in front of you's clothes to rezz..then yeah, using the chipset on a laptop would be just fine. smh

There are some who play HUD based role play games that afk in their homes, perhaps they dont want to be killed in the game while they afk in their homes they pay for...hence the security orb set to 0 seconds because in some of those games if they can come in and attack for one second they will just do it over and over and over beating you til you are dead in the game system when you are afk..so thats why..and hey when I buy a house in my town, since I pay for my house..I am totally allowed to put locks on and not let you in my living room. I can also put up a locking fence around my entire property. Sorry if me not allowing you to run through my yard upsets you, its my yard stay off the grass.

"Sansar will require higher specs than SL, especially when using VR HMDs. At some point, someone's going to create a workable streaming solution, which will allow low-end systems to run experiences like Sansar. OnLive delivered the tech, but the business didn't work." Higher specs than SL?? You do realize that AAA titles do not crush computers as hard as SL does right? I never understood it, will never understand it. Maybe you can help me to. Why is the FPS so so so so so crappy? It doesnt matter if you are running a new Broadwell -e CPU with a Brand Newe Nvidia GTX 1080 founders edition on a 1080p monitor, its still rough goings and high fan speeds..why? Perhaps LL could finally post the specs of what the perfect/ideal machine for running SL at any cost would be. Would we be better off with a CPU with high single core, single threaded performance or should we buy a 20 core Xeon with hyperthreading? It's a bit of a mystery why the performance of a 12 year old game is crappier than a modern AAA that has so much more complexity, shadows etc. Please enlighten us all. Pretend Im Joannie new girl, I want to come to SL..what are the BEST specs I can do for my machine? Will I get an average fps higher than 24fps with my 100mb download speed? Sorry to rant but you said Sansar will require higher specs when the lates greatest gaming rig you can build today still falls flat on its face in the FPS department in SL currently.