What Constitutes a Child Avatar

[Diamond843]

I'm getting sick of people giving me sh*t because my Avatar, to them, seems to look like a 16 year old. I decided to go mesh 2 weeks ago, and since then, I've been getting all kinds of crap about having a child avatar. I have not now, nor ever sought the use of a child avatar. My avatar is normal height, full sized, and in no way represents a minor.

 

LL, please tell me what constitutes a child avatar, so that I can graciously tell these idiots to f*ck off. I dont want to be in error. I dont want to be in violation. I harbor no desire to engage or promote child exploitation. I like the smoothe rendering of the Avatar 2.0 but please tell me where the line is drawn. Is it height, facial features, your ao, what?

 

I detest being told i'm using a child avi, because of what the assertion implies. Let us set the record straight.

[Buttacwup Float]

LL does not post here. The rules for all avatars are on the terms or service. You should start with that, though it really doesn't define what a child avatar looks like.

[Diamond843]

If the rules don't define what a child avatar is, surely you can see why i'm asking. Anyone is free to weigh in on the question, as you have. And all responses are appreciated.

[CarlottaManfredi]

I can testify that his avi has standard height, full sized, and in no way represents a minor. Anyway i think that nothing bad in having a childlike appearance avi, like often happens to many adults in rl. I think what matters is that you aren't a child in rl and play in SL, and i know that you aren't a minor.

[Syo Emerald]

There is no line drawn in the sand, defining when an avatar looks like a minor and when he isn't. Its the overall impression people get from your apperance, that will make them say this is a child avatar/teenager, this one isn't.

Some avatars are pretty clearly meant to be children, others are more...on the border. But there certainly must be something that makes people think of your avatar as a minor and it doesn't matter that this wasn't your intention. If people feel that way about your avatar, there is nothing you can do about it, other than telling them that this is not your intention and then hope they accept it.

Maybe you want to add a picture, so people can see with their own eyes what your avatar looks like? Maybe someone is able to point out what causes the impression that you aren't an adult avatar.

[HarrisonMcKenzie]

You do realize that playing a child avatar doesn't promote child exploitation. SL is generally pretty ok about child avatars, so long as they aren't in adult places. That people are harassing you about allegedly looking young means they are pieces of **bleep**. But that you are also begging on child avatars is also quite inappropriate.

 

If you are playing a 16 year old, you are going to be treated as a minor because your character is a minor. You can choose to play in positive environments where this isn't a problem, you can continue to play in hostile environments and learn to deal with it, or you can change your character.

[Diamond843]



[Diamond843]

You all are right. The use of a child avatar is not an automatic indication that you'd mistreat childeren. And it's true that I can either change who I am/represent myself to be, or avoid areas while in my new form.

 

I cant argue that with any certainty of success.

I guess I was just super upset that my friendship was turned down, on the basis that I looked 16, though I never once felt that I was angling to craft an underage avatar. To be shunned for something you didn't do hurts like hell. But I didnt wanna start a fuss in the club. I thought, "maybe people keep sayin this for a reason."  

 

I live and let live in my second life. But I felt attacked, and undeservingly so. I just didn't want to fight back without a leg to stand on, and so I resorted to asking if perhaps I had done something wrong.

[Kelli May]

One problem is that "standard height, full sized" is pretty meaningless in RL, and entirely so in SL. There is no standard for height.

For some reason, 5'3" is sometimes thrown around as a cut-off point. We're told that under 5'3" is too short.

The average female adult height from the vast majority of South American and Asian countries, as well as Latin Americans in the USA, is at or under 5'3". Given that this takes in several of the most populous nations on Earth (China, India, Indonesia, Brazil) I'd go as far as to say that more than half the world population of adult women are 5'3" or under.

For most women in the world 5' 3" is too tall!

[BilliJo Aldrin]

Honestly, 16 is being generous, i'd say more like a tall skinny 13 yr old, your face is very child like and u really haven't developed at all.

 

I'm 6 ft 2, and slender but obviously adult, but was still told by a 9 ft tall amazon on a nude beach one time that kids weren't allowed.

 

I guess i should have called my mom Mother 

 

 p.s. I have a brothel on an adult sim, so i'd probably ask you to leave.

[Innula Zenovka]

I'm involved in a large estate that includes several popular Adult regions, though I must stress I'm writing in a purely personal capacity.

We are strict about excluding child avatars from our Adult regions, since we're very conscious of LL's policy disallowing age play (in particular, the bit forbidding "the placement of avatars appearing to represent minors in proximity to "sex beds" or other sexualized graphics, objects, or scripts"), and we don't want to put either our visitors or the estate owner at risk.   The estate owner is particularly sensitive about this since not only does she wish to avoid being banned by LL from allowing breaches of their policy, but she also lives in one of the several European jurisdictions where allowing such activities on regions she controls would put her at risk of criminal prosecution, regardless of what LL does or doesn't do.

We're also committed to ensuring our visitors have an enjoyable experience on our regions, and a lot of them feel very uncomfortable if they see what seem to them to be avatars representing children or underage teens on an adult region.   

That's the background.   In the specific case, the pictures seem to me to show an avatar who looks sufficiently close to 15 or 16  to worry me.   That's particularly because of the face and and partly because of the clothes.    If I saw that avatar on one of our adult regions, I'd privately ask other staff members for a second opinion (taking into account the avatar's profile, groups and general behaviour) and, if they agreed they weren't comfortable about the avatar being on our estate (or if we started to get complaints from other visitors) we'd politely ask you either to change your avatar or to leave.

Trying to argue about it really isn't going to help.  If you do, we'll simply send you home and ban you from the estate.   You're a guest on our regions, and you have to comply with our rules, in addition to LL's, while you're there.  

 

 

[Diamond843]

You would be hard pressed to find someone more respectful of the rules and others than me. I dont try to upset others, i just dont. I even refrained from starting an argument in local just to express my discomfort. I didn't come here to argue, only to get the consensus, and maybe some official advice. 

 

I guess my mesh purchase was a bad one. I dont prefer origina LL avatars over mesh, because the clothing looks painted on. Perhaps i just need to spend more money to satisfy others arouynd me that think i look like a child, or that im trying to represent one. One third of second life becomes inaccessible to me, all because others think i've done something that i havent, intentionally portray a child like form.

I respect the rights of others to desire respect and safety. I just feel like my creative compilation of body parts, should not in and of themselves get me banned or shunned. I will always comply if asked to leave. I'm not a deviant, nor a troublemaker. I guess thats why this issue bugs me. It assumes i've done something intentionally inappropriate, and that doesn't sit well with me.

[Innula Zenovka]

I can't speak for others, but on our regions the fact we ask you to change your avatar doesn't mean we think you're intentionally doing anything inappropriate.   If we thought that, we wouldn't bother to ask you to change; we'd simply ban you from the estate and also AR you.   

It simply means that we don't feel comfortable about the avatar being there since we think she looks underage, and if we feel uncomfortable it probably means other visitors are going to feel uncomfortable too.

It's for your protection as much as it is for ours, since if another visitor is uncomfortable about your avatar, it's quite likely he'll simply AR you without referring it to us, and then both you and the estate owner face problems with LL.  

[Diamond843]

 Aww, well that does makes sense. I certainly wouldn't feel good if my actions got a whole sim in trouble. I'm really more respectful than that. Idk, I just do the best I can so offten, and I'm truly so respectful of others, this incident just rubbed me all the wrong way. It was just one person, and I should have let it go, but my pride... I just couldn't completely qualify their dislike for me. And that void fills with anger because I couldn't understand what I had done.

 

I dont know where to go now. All day i've just stayed at my home. Afraid to go anywhere, and very honestly unwilling to redesign my avatar. I love my avatar, her smile and her presence. But idk, I may have to keep her to myself  to avoid hurting the real me or anyone else. And so I really feel stalemated. My friend gave me the landmark to a free mesh avi in TMP. I guess I could at least go see what it looks like. 

 

[SugarSprite]

The Venus head is an anime style head. The issue must be that people are comparing you to themselves, where they may have more realistic looking avatars. Because your avatar's style is more cartoony, it has a young appearance in comparison. You don't need to replace your entire avatar, but if you want to stop being mistaken for a child you should at least replace your head or go to places that are populated by people with a similar avatar style as you.

[Diamond843]

Ahh..the meat of the issue!

 

I wanted to avoid the anime angle of this issue. It seems people have severe views on the subject at large. I had the Standard avatar 2.0 head, and was called babyface, so i got the Venus. I traded an orange for a tangerine. As long as i have an "anime head" people will always think im child looking. Perhaps its time to move away from 2.0 to Kemono or something. I just got a donation to the cause. I swear I wasn't pan handling or anything, but if the anime heads cant avoid the ire of the child look, then i'll just cover it in fur and just be "cute". 

 

I need new sims to hand out on. I stick to my adult sims, because i wanna feel free to engage how i chose. I dont want to run into kids, rl kids and have to dial back who i am. I just avoid them altogether. 

 

But yeah. Anime characters are not real, yet they can sometimes depict what looks alot like kids, even school childeren in dangerous situations. I wont dump on anyones creative rights, and i wont dismiss those that use it as an outlet for inappropriate content. What matters is whats in your heart. Since no one can qualify that as a measure, we have to go on whats displayed. And perhaps that included looking like a skinny teen, even if thats not my intent.

[Kelli May]

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Diamond843 wrote:

 Aww, well that does makes sense. I certainly wouldn't feel good if my actions got a whole sim in trouble. I'm really more respectful than that. Idk, I just do the best I can so offten, and I'm truly so respectful of others, this incident just rubbed me all the wrong way. It was just one person, and I should have let it go, but my pride... I just couldn't completely qualify their dislike for me. And that void fills with anger because I couldn't understand what I had done.

 

I dont know where to go now. All day i've just stayed at my home. Afraid to go anywhere, and very honestly unwilling to redesign my avatar. I love my avatar, her smile and her presence. But idk, I may have to keep her to myself  to avoid hurting the real me or anyone else. And so I really feel stalemated.

My friend gave me the landmark to a free mesh avi in TMP. I guess I could at least go see what it looks like. 

 

---

Well boo-fricken-hoo.

You really can go anywhere. Anywhere. You just have to step down from the mountain of privilege you've climbed and put on almost any avatar that doesn't look like a teenager. Or go somewhere that teenagers are welcome. 

Sitting on the fence can be uncomfortable. We get that. But unlike RL, you don't have to do that. Or, if you choose something borderline, there are places that cover your tastes. And if you judge it wrong, you don't get physically beaten or killed. Banned from a sim, or at worst kicked from SL, but never actually hurt. Step up to the plate and do what you want to do. If it goes wrong, accept your mistake and start again.

Never sit at home and believe you have no option. Take control of your Second Life.

[melody Swashbuckler]

Oh how i know all about your frustrations. I have always made my avatar to reflect the RL me in physical apperance, but unfortunatly this means that often I get accused of being an underage avatar. In RL I am 4ft 11in, 100 lbs, B size cups and wear brightly colored, pastel kawai cute outfits. Of course I can not have my avatar be 4ft 11in... Did do that for the first 3 months I was in SL but then decided to grow, so did a fantastic RP with someone where I was put on The Rack and streched out. LOL

Anyways, if you do not want to switch your head since you love the anime look, I would make sure to put in your 2nd Life tab of your Profile that your RP and RL age is 18+ sure it's over 18. Many people are Profile Pervs, so I would make a Pick in the Picks tab of your Profile stating that your avatar is not an underage one. In my Profile I have it stated in several places that my avatar and me in RL is 18+. Here is what my Appearance Pick in my Profile reads:

" My physical appearance may be throwing some people off so here it goes...
i am ALWAYS an adult who most of the time likes to dress in sweet lolita, kawaii & pre-pubescent fashions. Often you will find me wearing a colorful, fun outfit & unable to stay still. By expressing myself this way DOES NOT mean i am a child. At ALL times i'm an adult mentally, emotionally & physically! i like to look cute & innocent, unlike the way young adults in this society nowadays are sexualized in their dress. i strive to be cute looking, not sexy!
Notice the collar? i'm an RL slave to My Daddie. Want to know more? Just ask. NO sexual RP can happen here in SL!
i may look small & you are right. i'm petite in RL (4ft 11in 100 lbs) & represent my avatar as best i can here
Yes, i have realistic sized breasts. Just cos i don't have some massively sized breasts doesn't mean anything! We all have differant sized bodies, accept it please!
http://catnapkitty.wordpress.com/2011/06/15/getting-good-body-proportions-in-second-life/ "

 

Just a to side note cos I know someone will say something... The no sexual RP bit is a limit set in place by my RL Daddie (my boyfriend). He, like many other husbands, boyfriends, fiancés, believes that any online sexual play is considered cheating. 

[CassieMaia]

If I was going to hang out at adult sims, especially sims with a lot of sexual activity, I would definitely change the avatar (or at least the head) to a more mature look.   I've seen stories here in the forum of people saying their friend wasn't doing anything, or wasn't engaging in sexual activity, but someone AR'd them and they got banned for age play.  I would not want to take that chance. 

On the other hand, SL is a very large place, and not all of it is adult.  If you have your heart set on that avatar look, then I'd suggest finding other areas to hang out and explore.  

[pleasureboi]

---

Diamond843 wrote:

I live and let live in my second life. But I felt attacked, and undeservingly so. I just didn't want to fight back without a leg to stand on, and so I resorted to asking if perhaps I had done something wrong.

---

Welcome to the club of being asked to grow up or leave - and I say that as an 18 year old 5'10" person who patrols a few adult sims keeping littles out.

Sadly there are still a lot of nasty people in 9 foot avatars who will see anyone realistically sized as a kid and they make a lot of complaints to sim owners, who as a result, try to stop the drama by setting minimum heights.

Now I am not saying the few people who piped into this thread are those rude people *BUT* their response is due to it. Heck, my own response when I ban littles from the Adult regions I watch over is a direct result of the closed minded hate of these unrealistic, drama causing, nine footers.

But because of them, unless we as officers don't keep taking a reasonable and balanced line it can end up in problems for the sim owner and it can end up in malicious ARs for "you". 

As a guide for regions I officer in we set the height to 5'6" and we don't autoban based on it alone. This height is chosen pretty much as a standard minimum in my community. But even people over that height can fall foul of the guidelines set by the sim owner.

Understand it's not really 100% the height, or the face, or the skin and it never should be. It's a combination of all of those along with the attitude and very improtantly the groups that will play a huge part of it.

If one is in lolita groups, daddy dom groups, adoption groups etc. then that is a statement in itself. Add that to a smaller avatar and younger face shape and the line is crossed. They will get a warning and be asked to change shape. If they ignore that warning, then they get banned. 

 

My judgement? You look like a stretched teen. Add some thickness to counter the youth of the head. 

 

Interesting reading: http://pennycow.blogspot.nl/2011/07/matter-of-scale.html

 

Anyway, you soon get used to the rudeness and indiscriminate silent bans (the automated orb kicks for being under 6' tall hurt me the most though). Luckily you can always find new places. Decent places filled with nice accepting people.

[Diamond843]

Well I do appreciate everyone's input. I recognize and respect everyone's right to see things as they do. I'm grateful for the assistance I've recieved, and the insight that it's not just me. I'm not sure why I got so upset about it. I rarely ever let things like that bug me, but I sppose it comes with the territory. Thank you all for you give-a-hoot. Just talking about it helped me through alot.

[Vivienne Schell]

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Diamond843 wrote:



---

Avatar 2.0 is a mixture of Anime and Disney CInderella. Which means: The face is meant to look underaged. Is using this avatar ageplay? In a general sense, it certainly is. Because by using this clearly underaged looking avatar face you give the totally obvious statement that you play a minor even if the rest of the body looks kind of grown up.

This said: There is nothing wrong about playing a minor by using Avatar 2.0 as long as the minor stays in minor (PG / General) environment. Which implies that you - as Avatar 2.0 user- should (favorably) restrict your appearance to "general" rated sims, that you should never show off any bits which a minor should not show off in public and prevent any kind of sexual related chat or IM, even your AO matters there.

As soon as you violate one or more of these rules, you obviously violate the ToS and the Linden guidelines on the topic, which can be read here (it is worth a read).

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Clarification_of_policy_disallowing_ageplay

Even if it is not likely that Linden Lab will take action as long as you move safely within the legal framework, it also is very likely that many, many people dislike your appearance without telling you, so that you may have some difficulties with socialising and contacts - even if you hate pedophelia. On the other hand, Anime and Disney certainly isn´t something immoral or illegal, so if you are fine with puritan underaged cartoonish lifestyle, go ahead and try to find people who share your enthusiasm on the grid.

I personally feel a certain shot of discomfort once i face such a Cinderallanime anywhere else but in a Disney Castle or a japanese space station, and in adult environments of any kind I consider their presence being an outright provocation. And I am pretty sure that I am not the only one.

Btw., I find it pretty entertaining that you obviously cannot see the difference between a 21 ys old face and a 12-15 ys old face by yourself and start a discussion over it.

[Penny018]

I know this is an Old Post, But i was doing some research on the topic as it recently came up as an issue on a Sim that i work - On Reviewing the TOS and a variety of other Blogs and Post i found this interesting Snippet

What are Linden Lab's policies towards Child Avatars?
The only material in the Linden Labs Terms of Service pertaining to child avatars is found in section 6.3(viii) of the Terms of Service. This prohibits sexualized situations involving child avatars, also known as "*****." This is further detailed in the ***** Policy, found here: Linden Lab Official:Clarification of policy disallowing *****. At this time, there is no other content in the ToS pertaining to child avatars, such as prohibitions on general use, violent or graphic content, or language.

Policies towards child avatars are largely focused on the actions of the avatars, not the avatars themselves.

Child avatars are allowed within Second Life. A child avatar, even within a mature or adult region (but not participating in adult (in this case, sexual) ) activities is allowed. A child avatar is allowed do everything any other avatar is...

Note that child avatars are allowed on PG, Mature, and even Adult public parcels, provided with the latter that they are adult verified. Note that this does not necessarily apply to private parcels where one has the option to eject or ban as desired. The allowance of child avatars on adult rated land such as Zindra does not invalidate any of the above rules.

 

This was Located under the Title of  - What are Linden Lab's policies towards Child Avatars - In the SL Wiki

There is a lot more, this is basically the Highlights in that section

I hope this is Helpful to People

Ok The Post blanked out some of the Text - Didnt know it would do that

"*****."  =  Age    Play

Edited December 18, 2017 by Penny018
Clarification

[Alwin Alcott]

23 minutes ago, Penny018 said:

I know this is an Old Post

 

if you have something to add, open a new one

[Alwin Alcott]

2 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said:

 

don't be sad Callum 

 

just said that because on older threads there's often so much rubble and offtrail noise... a new thread can bring some freshness...

(also... we had not that long ago a long thread about the same...)

Edited December 18, 2017 by Alwin Alcott