Montana Corleone Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 So it's FB driving the new proposed US law making use of non-real names a criminazl offence, along with breaches of ToS? Some (big) business always benefits from wacky new US laws... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peggy Paperdoll Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 I think you are misunderstanding what the proposed law is all about. It's not to force people to disclose their real life names and information to others on the Internet. It's the make it a criminal offense to provide false names and information to the provider of an Internet service. It's already against most providers' terms of service but that has no teeth when fraud or some criminal act is encountered. Law enforcement has to go through quite a data chase to find out who did the fraud or criminal act with subpeonas to ISP's just to get to a likely suspect.............it's less than ideal for tracking down the criminal (not to mention time comsuming when time is of primary importance in both fraud and crimes such as child adduction). I'm not an advocator or making laws for the sake of making laws but this one seems to be a good one. The only "ammendment" I would demand is that the providers being required to up their data security and protection to a much higher level than most providers have in place now. LL has proven to me that they do take security quite seriously with the single breach that happened several years ago when everyone had to change their password before being allowed to log in.......LL forced that on us within hours of the breach (that gave me a lot of confindence in LL). And, of course, providers are going to use the information if they are so inclined. I don't have Facebook (never have, never been interested) but I have been in SL for quite a while........never have I had any spam or targeted ads crop up that can be attributed to Linden Lab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pussycat Catnap Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 Peggy Paperdoll wrote: Every time LL markets SL there is an uproar about who they are marketing too. And at the same time everyone wants LL to market SL so that it grows. Word. People get pissed off that they market to businesses. People get pissed off that they market to socialites. People get pissed off that they market to facebookers. People get pissed off that they market to gamers. People get pissed off that they market to educationals. People get pissed off that they market to charities. People get pissed off that they don't market enough to any of the above... People get pissed off... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peggy Paperdoll Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 I hear ya, Pussycat. :smileyvery-happy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minx Bade Posted November 25, 2011 Author Share Posted November 25, 2011 They didn't market SL they changed it. Marketing SL would be to sell what makes SL unique, not to copy others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peggy Paperdoll Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 That's called marketing. Do you think Ford Motor Company or General Motors Company haven't changed? And they market that change every time. You're grousing about something you don't like........that's fine. Just don't try to sell your belly ache to me. Yeah, SL has changed over the years. Last year as a big change. SL must change or die.......for 6 years that I have first hand knowledge of SL has changed immensely. Some for the good (in my opinion) some for the bad (again in my opinion).........but never has there been a consensus among the residents about exactly what is good or what is bad. At times I've come close to just canceling.......and other times I think I couldn't live without SL. You take what is good and enjoy. You learn to adapt to what's bad and move on. Or, you leave. Not in the least bit complicated......unless you like making it complicated (as many do here in the forums............different story for the folks who don't hang out here looking for drama). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigren Panthar Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 People? Let us talk instead about residents. Residents who are customers. Customers who pay good money for the dynamic Rod 'Bumbles' sojourn into facebook-itis. With me so far? Good. Residents are pissed off LL does not listen Residents are pissed off LL does not listen to the very people who pay their wages. Resdients are pissed off LL seems to be embarrased about their own creation, and wishes it was something else. Residents are pissed off LL does not invest in improving the grid, but chase facebook and twiiter rainbows instead of making SL unique aspects marketable. Residents are pissed off LL ignore the platform they created and wish it was facebook or twitter, and make decisions with no consultation from the residents who actually use SL. Residents are pissed off LL seemingly will not dip into their profits and invest in more and better servers. Residents are pissed off LL is happy for shills and apologists to flourish in the forums and maintain the fiction residents themselves are to blame for the never ending insane lag, through spending money inworld on all sorts to make content creators and LL richer, whereas more and better servers would do wonders. Resdients are pissed off their loyalty and years off spending in SL seemingly means nothing whatsoever to LL Residents are pissed off the fantastic content of SL is effectively often brilliant unpaid development created by residents - not LL - that LL reaps the benefit off, yet LL still cannot make the gird run smooth and low lag. Residents are pissed off LL stubbornly foisted onto the grid one of the worst viewers ever, that only now is begining to look hopeful, after spending a lot of money and time, while unpaid, part time third party devs effortlessly trumped any LL viewer. Residents want Bumble to deliver, and improve SL...not make it into SLFacebook. It is what he is paid for. His 'settling in' period has long expired. Residents want Bumble to communicate either personally or via LL just what is being done to improve and take SL forwards, not reply to obsequious posts in a jocular fashion, but actually let the residents know what will happen for the future SL enjoyment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigren Panthar Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 Ford and GM actually listen to their customers and improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peggy Paperdoll Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 And, if you will get over your high and mighty "I'm the customer, by God....." attitude you'll see that SL has improved. So much so that, after 8 years it's still king of the hill with no competition in sight yet. Improvement is subjective. What I see as improvement you choose to ignore (lag, grid outages, limited building tools, griefers running rampant and taking the entire grid down at will............all those areas have been improved). All those areas are what the residents have been screaming for. No, instead you say LL has not improved SL..........based on what facts? You don't like that LL is marketing SL to the Facebook types........who are they going to market to? The niche group that is here now? That niche is pretty much tapped out........there are only so many prople interested in creating or pioneering a new virtual world. The rest want to come here and have everything in place for their entertainment........and guess who that crowd is? I'll be damned, it's the Facebookers. The content creators are tickled pink to have new folks........Facebookers or Tweeters, they don't care. Only the self centered know it alls care. I'm a customer too..........perhaps a higher spending customer than you even. I'm realistice. I know my options when a company disappoints me. I also am aware of what the Second Life platform is and how it works, it's limitations, it's potential. It cannot remain the virtual world of the niche crowd.........it's been doing that for 8 years and it's pretty obvious all the niche folks are here that care to be here. SL belongs to Linden Lab, not you or me. They want to grow and are marketing SL to a group they think will accomplish that goal..........you don't count so get over yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria1488304562 Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 The relation between us and LL is like this: Imagine that you are renting an apartment, and every so often your landlord changes something. You never see him; he always does it when you're out. Some of the things he does are good and some are not. You're grateful for some of his changes, but others drive you up the wall. He will do good things like paint the hallway, but he doesn't fix the leaky toilet you've been complaining about for months. And even though he promptly cashes your rent checks, you have no way of communicating with him. You can send him letters or emails or leave voicemail messages, but you never know whether he reads them. And yet, on the whole, it's a cool place to live, and you haven't seen anything better... I think that LL is like that landlord. He thinks he's doing what needs to be done, and it never occurs to him that he needs to talk to his tenants at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peggy Paperdoll Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 To further your little analysis lets say on both the email and voicemail you sent/left you make it a point to call your landlord a name other than his name. Say his name is Rod Humble and you decide to address him as Mr. Bumble. Just for laughs, of course, but how would you expect Mr. Humble to react? Would he be inclined to bust his butt to please you? Or would he just think, "Well the monthly rent check is good so I'll just ignore it and do what I think needs to be done." Actually, if he reacted that way that is quite admirable on his part. Were you here when Windlight was introduced? I was and I can tell you people were pissed off......."how dare LL put such a feature in SL that crashes my computer! I'm a paying customer, and LL is making it impossible for me to log into SL. Philip Rosedale should be hung from the nearest tree for such a useless feature!" I'm exaggerating.........but only a little bit. Flexible prims......same thing. If anything upsets anyone's life in SL they immeditately start with the name calling, cheap shots, and bitching. If LL had listened to all that crap SL would be gone..........not in existance. History. LL has made some big time mistakes (in my opinion) but overall they have done quite well with the first of it's kind virtual world. It's the envy of many wannabe grids........take a look at the "I can do better" grids that have come and gone over the years. Let the marketing take SL where it takes it before you show your ignorance to the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Ahren Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 Peggy, you could have left that last sentence off your post and it would have been 10,000 times better. It is possible to disagree without being disagreeable. You have to exercise a little self-control and repress your more aggressive base instincts. Every time there's a post critical of LL, there are some people who think it is necessary to repress all criticism. We get it, if we don't like it we can leave. We're aware of LL's closest competitors. Some of us already avatars and businesses over there. Copying of the Facebook wall smells like desperation. LL deserves criticism. There have been on-going monumental screw-ups. One of the worst is right here in the forums with LL's inability to deal with spam, sponsoring spamming, and perma-banning of residents for no good reason. There is another word for criticism from the engineering world. It's called negative feedback. It's how control of a complex system is maintained. Businesses need it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peggy Paperdoll Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 "Let the marketing take SL where it takes it before you show your ignorance to the world." --------------------------------------------------------------- Now tell me why I should not state what I consider an obvious fact. People pop off all the time about what should be and what should not be.......that's fine as long as they can state some facts to back up their reasoning. If they cannot back up their reasoning and I"m on the other side of the discussion, I'll put it out just like I see it. It's ignorance when someone makes stupid statements with made up derogatory names to "be cute" (or whatever) and expect to be listened to by the person they just derided publically. That's a cheap shot.........and I hate it when I see it. I've stated several times in this thread that I do not agree with all the changes or policies that LL put out. But, I'm consistant in the belief that, in the long run, we are the fools........not LL. Frustration? A little. But mostly it's the ignorant statements made by quite a few of the more vocal and hostile posters in this forum. They are not new........they've been here for nearly 6 years (different names, same attitude). And they've been proven to be fools every time. I don't see this as any different. I've had to eat s**t over the teen/main grid merger......I can admit it...........can you? I can come across as quite blunt (even nasty) but I do expect people to play fair..........calling names and taking cheap shots is anything but fair. PS....... One day we need to meet in-world. I've been conversing with you for a year now and never seen your avatar in person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Ahren Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 I'm sorry Peggy, that was in poor judgment. I should take my own medicine and exercise more self-censorship. Looking forward to meeting you in world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minx Bade Posted November 26, 2011 Author Share Posted November 26, 2011 I'm not sure which post I missed, but who called who names or made cheap shots? Forgive me but I only ask this since I can't seem to find that post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peggy Paperdoll Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 If you will notice and remember, I posted more than two times (three, counting this post)...............some posts are missing. The post I was speaking to is one of those. There's two ways that happens. It got moderated and those posts were taken down (not likely since my most "offensive" post is still in tact) or the person I was responding to deleted his post. CS posters tend to do that instead of facing up to their cheap shot words. Believe me, names were called by a very small person who chooses to hide instead of backing up his post.....typical of the type. ETA Oh how I love this software........I found the post http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Your-Avatar/The-facebook-agenda/m-p/1251803 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 When we think about growing SL, we need to think outside of the scope of our own personal use. In one sense it looks to me like SL wants to be all things to all people. People have different reasons they 'use' SL. Educators see it as a way of disseminating knowledge. Musicians see it as a way of sharing their music. artists get to show their artwork. You could expand that list almost infinitely. I do see FB 'used' that way also. But the primary use of both that I see is still simple social interaction. I approach the internet with this frame of reference, that there is NO PRIVACY on the internet. Every thing you do or say on the internet is trackable. If someone wants the information bad enough, it can be tracked. But still, the catch 22 with Linden Lab linking to FB is the privacy issue. From the TOS: 9. PRIVACY AND YOUR PERSONAL INFORMATION "We are committed to protecting your privacy......................." Facebook TOS requires that you use your REAL Name on your account. And here in is the danger of linking SL with FB. It is a wide open door for your private information to be disseminated and for your SL Avatar to be identified with your RL Identity. I documented all this in this thread: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/General-Discussions/Second-Life-Profiles-Facebook-And-Your-Privacy-Please-Vote-On/m-p/490587/highlight/true#M237611 Think of the risk to a teenager if they should hit the like button in their SL profile. I don't know an easy answer to all this. Linden Lab is a business. And a business needs to be profitable. I've got no problem with this. I'd like to see SL growing and improving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria1488304562 Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 Peggy Paperdoll wrote: To further your little analysis lets say on both the email and voicemail you sent/left you make it a point to call your landlord a name other than his name. Say his name is Rod Humble and you decide to address him as Mr. Bumble. Just for laughs, of course, but how would you expect Mr. Humble to react? Would he be inclined to bust his butt to please you? Or would he just think, "Well the monthly rent check is good so I'll just ignore it and do what I think needs to be done." Actually, if he reacted that way that is quite admirable on his part. I've never done those things. If you have, you have only yourself to blame. Peggy Paperdoll wrote: Let the marketing take SL where it takes it before you show your ignorance to the world. Same goes for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 Peggy Paperdoll wrote: I think you are misunderstanding what the proposed law is all about. It's not to force people to disclose their real life names and information to others on the Internet. It's the make it a criminal offense to provide false names and information to the provider of an Internet service. It's already against most providers' terms of service but that has no teeth when fraud or some criminal act is encountered. Law enforcement has to go through quite a data chase to find out who did the fraud or criminal act with subpeonas to ISP's just to get to a likely suspect.............it's less than ideal for tracking down the criminal (not to mention time comsuming when time is of primary importance in both fraud and crimes such as child adduction). I'm not an advocator or making laws for the sake of making laws but this one seems to be a good one. The only "ammendment" I would demand is that the providers being required to up their data security and protection to a much higher level than most providers have in place now. LL has proven to me that they do take security quite seriously with the single breach that happened several years ago when everyone had to change their password before being allowed to log in.......LL forced that on us within hours of the breach (that gave me a lot of confindence in LL). And, of course, providers are going to use the information if they are so inclined. I don't have Facebook (never have, never been interested) but I have been in SL for quite a while........never have I had any spam or targeted ads crop up that can be attributed to Linden Lab. You think that making it illegal is going to stop those who are intent on committing fraud from giving a false name? So how then does it make it easier for Law Enforcement. The only time it would be possibly easier would be the occasional idiot who IS dumb enough to leave their identification at the scene of a crime. I have to the best of my knowledge nothing to hide, no laws that I have broke, etc, etc, but I still prefer that Law Enforcement be forced to jump though hoops. I have a right to "be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures," and I have a responsibility to stand against anything that may violate it. If you don't exercise your rights, you lose them. At its very best, all that law does is give something additional the government could charge a person with a crime for and at its worst open our lives up to more and more intrusion by the government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kascha Matova Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Peggy Paperdoll wrote: I think you are misunderstanding what the proposed law is all about. It's not to force people to disclose their real life names and information to others on the Internet. It's the make it a criminal offense to provide false names and information to the provider of an Internet service. It's already against most providers' terms of service but that has no teeth when fraud or some criminal act is encountered. Law enforcement has to go through quite a data chase to find out who did the fraud or criminal act with subpeonas to ISP's just to get to a likely suspect.............it's less than ideal for tracking down the criminal (not to mention time comsuming when time is of primary importance in both fraud and crimes such as child adduction). I'm not an advocator or making laws for the sake of making laws but this one seems to be a good one. The only "ammendment" I would demand is that the providers being required to up their data security and protection to a much higher level than most providers have in place now. LL has proven to me that they do take security quite seriously with the single breach that happened several years ago when everyone had to change their password before being allowed to log in.......LL forced that on us within hours of the breach (that gave me a lot of confindence in LL). And, of course, providers are going to use the information if they are so inclined. I don't have Facebook (never have, never been interested) but I have been in SL for quite a while........never have I had any spam or targeted ads crop up that can be attributed to Linden Lab. And as such the law is utterly useless. Just like gun laws that only make it more difficult for law abiders to have them while not even slowing down the people they are targeting for a second - since those people do not get the guns they rob banks or murder people with from ACME Gun Mart at the shopping mall. In similar fashion, criminalizing fictitious accounts will do absolutely nothing in the way of deterring the people out to do harm on the internet. It will merely add on a charge to the one they are already intent on earning. The only people who take a hit are the ones who can no longer anonymize their harmless presence on the internet and so can eventually look forward to being jailed for not making themselves 'GPS' findable on every sports or news board, etc. that they comment on. And I'm more than a little sure you know this. No pervy Chester hooked up under some fake account so he can hook up with 10 year old girls at the city park is going to call it all off because the guv'mint says lying to Farcebook is baaad. One more example of the government attempting to look busy. Clouds of dust, elbows, and when the smoke clears there's not a thing actually done except to pave the way for more abuse of power and BIg Brother crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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