The New System Avatars are Gruesome

[Prokofy Neva]

I'm sorry, but these were awful! Each one is more gruesome than the next.

At first, I was excited to try these new system "classic" avatars with mesh.

The reason is that while I have put together a "look" with hair, skin, shape, clothes etc, it never stays together. Half the time a teleport strips off my hair or shoes as in the old days. I'm constantly having to adjust the mesh shirts I have, the disappear, need to be put on and off to reappear again,etc. The alphas with the shirts have to be constantly fussed with, etc. etc. not to mention the boots. It's a time-consuming and demoralizing experience -- especially to see your avatar body, which you have long been used to, disappear completely due to the need for alphas on mesh.

So the "look" that's in the folder you just pull and and forget about, which doesn't glitch out because it's made by LL itself wihch works to its own specs seemed great, at least for some busy days when either I can't fuss with all those avatar woes or when I'm busy and just want it to be dirt simple.

But every single one of them has a shifty-eyed look, lolls his head and eyes around as if he is drunk  or on drugs, and then moves as if he is suffering from heroin withdrawal.

I tried every single one of them and the least-bad -- the Indian with the hat -- is what I have now, but note: don't take his hat off, as his hair will strip out with it leaving him with a buzz cut.

One of them looks like an impudent Leonard DiCaprio.

Is this an Uncanny Valley problem? They make them more realistic but it end sup making them seem creepy. Or what?

Do the Lindens hate us?

Seriously, go and see them and you will instantly understand what I mean. I remember Blue Mars never got the avatars right, never changed them and didn't give them care, and in the end their world failed.

[Kelli May]

Really? Because I thought they were a vast improvement on anything that had been provided before. They're certainly better than the weird, cardboard statue full-mesh avs that have been baffling newbies for the past several months.

True, they aren't perfect. The proportions (of the ones I checked) are still out, and the clothing isn't mix-and-match enough to satisfy my need to customise. The point, surely, is that these are starter avatars. They aren't meant for 'experienced' residents - and I use the scare quotes because despite your years in SL, your knowledge of how the av works seems to be basic at best. Hair coming off with hats? It's pretty normal for hair creators to sell hair/hat combinations.

These avs give a newbie a decent starting look, and let them see how an avatar is put together (something the last block of avs failed to do). I've seen plenty of much older residents walking around in worse. The point of the SL av is customisation. Don't like the AO? Buy a different one (or pick up one of several, quite acceptable, free ones). Same goes for anything else on the avatar. Few people expect to wear a starter av forever; however good they might be, we'd all be wandering around like a bunch of clones.

You mention Blue Mars not changing their avs, but LL have constantly updated what is available. The av I started with would look ridiculous today: painted on clothes, lumpy system hair, staring eyes, play-doh skin and no AO. It's been slow progress and usually a couple of steps behind what the rest of us were wearing, but it does move on.

[Venus Petrov]

You need to get out more.

[Prokofy Neva]

Have you actually tried them on and seen them? I have. And I've selected one I've stayed with for several days now. Have you?

 

I've been in Second Life for 11 years, and seen a number of series of avatars go through. The first ones were very primitive,but you yourself could customize them more. About 2 rounds ago with "the Boy Next Door" among them, they had some very nice ones, decent looking ones, if a little short for my taste, and ones that you could mix and max, for example take the skin of one and the explorer get-up of the other, etc. 

We all get it that they are supposed to be starter avatars. Derp. But that's not the problem. It's not that they are generic of lacking in the greatest fashion -- that you do yourself and is half the fun of SL for many people.

What I'm talking about is their overall ghoulish look, which is largely a function of the AO in them that makes their eyes and hands have strange positions and postures that make them look gruesome. 

I've spent thousands of Linden dollars on customs and I'm now in my 12th year. I've spent a fraction of what most people spend because I don't care that much about fashion. But I see numerous people in all kinds of fashionable costumes constantly particularly at gathering places like gatcha events, infohubs, clubs.

The whole reason I even go to this library is I want hassle-free clothing and avatar components. I'm sick of struggling every day with keeping my hair, shirt and boots on. I want to pull on something in the morning and have it stay through hundreds of teleports. So in that sense it is serving its purpose.

You fail to grasp the point here. It doesn't matter what LL has accomplished in the past with its long experience in development, nor its insider FIC creators with their huge exposure in the Library. What matters is the RESULTS NOW. They have uncannily created an uncanny valley that indeed looks very much like Blue Mars; one of the male avatars is a dead ringer for the zombie look of Blue Mars in particular. The avatars of BM were universally loathed and cost its developers the influx they might have expected. People put on those avatars once and never came back. So it's important to point that out. If this is their idea for Sansar, people will head for the exits.

Fixing this is fairly easy -- it's about changing the AO and making it very easy to remove or not even placing it at all until people are acclimated. It's about changing the features of the eyes and faces a bit.

As for the mandate to "get out more". Hey, I get out plenty. I have hundreds of customers. Most people tend to have the latest fashions -- even the poorest people in the humblest newbie abode these days try to look fashionable and nice and likely spend more money on their skins than they do on their rentals or purchase of land. Do you get out and see hundreds of people every month on numerous sims that you own, or travel to other sims also to shop for decorations for your business or to see what people are doing? I do. So I get out plenty, and I can see what people actually choose when they are free to visit the vast marketplace and select.

What they choose looks NOTHING like the idiot models on the front page of the Marketplace, where the Lindens seem to think the latest fad is hippie chicks with long hair and guitars. Indeed boho is one of the new in looks now, but it's adapted by only a few. 

I don't see anybody wearing the new system avatars. I see people days old at the three infohubs I visit every day because I have newbie orientation nearby struggling to get out of system avatars rapidly -- or wearing the previous generation of system clothing, not these. I see people put these on and get out of them right away and plunk down $2000 to get a skin.

And maybe that's the plan -- make the starter avatars so hideous that even the poorest freshest newbie will hurry to spend at least US $7.00 or so to buy herself a skin immediately.

[Kelli May]

Yes, I've tried some of the avatars, and some of the clothing and hair from the others. I even wrote a little about it. I've also noticed one or two 'in the wild' on newbies. I thought they were a great improvement. Perhaps this is just a clash of taste? I'll admit that I haven't worn them for long, because I have better in my inventory. That hardly renders them 'gruesome'. I've just checked a couple of the male AOs and they're not to my taste, but to suggest that they're going to damage newcomers' interest in SL is quite ridiculous.

You mentioned mixing and matching components, particularly skins. Why would that not work with these avatars? How is that different from the avs of the era you mention? A lot of the components will transfer to other avs - hair, skins and shoes, certainly (I've borrowed the nude heels for one of my more impoverished alts). The clothes are less useful that way, but by no means are they all write-offs. I did notice that if you wear one of these male AOs on a female shape, it notices and detaches itself with a warning message. Other than that, there's a lot you can work with.

I always thought the boy-next-door skin was unntaurally orange, and rather short of detail anywhere but the face. No accounting for taste. I'd happily wear some of the new skins if I was starting out, although an option without a hairbase would be helpful. None of them are commercial standard, but they don't stand out as unpleasant. Certainly not enough to send me throwing money at a replacement.

(Aside: someone might know if they're based on the Eloh skins? There's something of a resemblance to my eye.)

If the AO is such an issue, and I'm really not convinced it is, then what's to stop people from removing it? For a newbie, it's easier for them to understand the idea an AO if they can see one attached. If it was never attached, they'd have to learn about it from other sources. Starting with an AO, they can at least get the idea that an attachment to animate their av is an option.

 

[Prokofy Neva]

No, it's not about taste.

It's about comparing the happy people in the ART WORK FOR THE AD here on the Linden blog:

 



 

which many bloggers will just look at and blog from as dutiful little myrmidons without actually trying them, or trying them one-by-one, and the ACTUAL RESULTS.

Here they are, as I've blogged a number of them:

 

[Prokofy Neva]

Damn, my post was cut in half.

Here's more:

 



 

If this crew came to your door, you'd call the police.

I have lots more to say about this, but can't take the time to rewrite the post that the system just ate. If you have the honestly to look beyond the fanboyz perspective, and will actually try them in world, you will get it.

[Dresden]

There's this fabulous "new" thing called windlight.

...Dres

[Dresden]

Okay, I just tried them on for myself and you're right... they are pretty bad.  But not as bad as the ones they've replaced and not nearly as bad as you make them out to be.

This one...

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Prokofy Neva wrote:

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...is one of the mesh ones, which were always horrendous.

...Dres

[wesleytron]

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Prokofy Neva wrote:

Each one is more gruesome than the next.

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Surely that rather depends on which order you view them. If you go through them in the opposite order you did, then I dare say each one is less gruesome than the last. Try that.

[Kelli May]



If you post an av in an ugly pose with unflattering lighting, it will look ugly. No photoshop, other than cropping. Just a change of lighting.

[Prokofy Neva]

You shouldn't have to force newbies -- after all, the target audience -- to fuss with windlight, no, no sale.

And it doesn't matter if you have a good or bad graphics card because it's not about their colour so much as their movements and the look in their eye which is not about the lighting.

Glad you see my point. But it's not "some are mesh and some aren't" -- they are ALL mesh with this latest batch.

And no, you can't separate out parts, which just goes to show the previous poster didn't really try them. There's no way to. You click on "take off" -- it goes nowhere. It's all or nothing. Inside the folders, if you remove the hat, the hair comes with it. I tried removing the AO -- I couldn't. Maybe that's the glitch but that would half-way solve the ghastliness if I could do that.

I also want to point out that their gruesomeness is exactly "au natural" -- as it happened, I had had these glitches with my previous avatar, no matter what viewer I was on, whereby the system was dressing him in white system clothing on top of the regular clothing I have and claiming that clothing was "missing," forcing me to "take off" the white pants etc each log-in.

So a Linden did some procedures on my account, and when I next logged in, I literally was like a newbie -- a brand-clean screen, with "choose your gender" which is why I even decided to get the new system avatar in the first place.

So it's not an issue with a shape or something, these are what they are.

I realize that there's always a concerted set on the forums who serve as strident fanboyz and fangirlz fiercely loyal not only to the Lindens but their chosen creator crew, and refuse to concede any criticism.

But sorry, the truth has to be said. Whatever the creative impulse here, the implementation is ghastly.

[Prokofy Neva]

But both of these are ugly. The second one has better lighting, but it's like someone pasted a photo-realistic face over a blob.

Photorealism never works in Second Life. It has to be a bit painted, a bit of a toon, a bit virtual, in order to seem natural. That is the feature of this virtual world.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

You want to use these avatars because instead of dressing your own avatar, you just want to dump one of these on and then run.  You expect a starter avatar to be the equivalent of one put together by someone that has good taste and knows what they are doing.  Not going to happen. They aren't perfect but at least they look better than anything I've seen LL put out before. 

[Bobbie Faulds]

Prok just likes to complain. Always has. Back the last time he was really active, lots of arguments...even calling the SL Mentors corrupt...but I digress.

The new avis are an improvement over the mesh ones that had no instructions. I had no problems mixing and matching the clothing on my alt. You do realize you ADD not just wear or it will knock the part that's attached there off. So you add hair then add the hat not wear the hair and then wear the hat. The hat will replace the hair.

 

[Coby Foden]

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Prokofy Neva wrote:

 

And no, you can't separate out parts, which just goes to show the previous poster didn't really try them. There's no way to. You click on "take off" -- it goes nowhere. It's all or nothing. Inside the folders, if you remove the hat, the hair comes with it. I tried removing the AO -- I couldn't.

---

I tried the Shawna female starter avatar. You can strip her totally nude. Everything comes off, even the AO. You can adjust the shape to your liking. You can change the skin, you can wear different clothes on her. She is as adjustable as any other classic avatar.

Maybe you have some glitch in your system if you can't?

Shawna is pretty cute the way she comes by default. With some small adjustments she comes a real beauty.

Here is an example:

I put on her a new hair, new dress, adjusted the lips shape a bit, made her legs shorter.

If she isn't nice looking then nothing is.



I tried also some male shapes. You can adjust them too in any way you like. Nothing is locked.

 

I think these new classic starter avatars are a very good move.

The earlier full mesh avatars were horrific, giving newbies lots of frustration.

 

PS.

I TPed with Shawna avatar a lot. I had no issues at all. Nothing came off, nor was dislaced, due to TP.

[Kelli May]

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Prokofy Neva wrote:

You shouldn't have to force newbies -- after all, the target audience -- to fuss with windlight, no, no sale.

And it doesn't matter if you have a good or bad graphics card because it's not about their colour so much as their movements and the look in their eye which is not about the lighting.

Glad you see my point. But it's not "some are mesh and some aren't" -- they are ALL mesh with this latest batch.

And no, you can't separate out parts, which just goes to show the previous poster didn't really try them. There's no way to. You click on "take off" -- it goes nowhere. It's all or nothing. Inside the folders, if you remove the hat, the hair comes with it. I tried removing the AO -- I couldn't. Maybe that's the glitch but that would half-way solve the ghastliness if I could do that.

I also want to point out that their gruesomeness is exactly "au natural" -- as it happened, I had had these glitches with my previous avatar, no matter what viewer I was on, whereby the system was dressing him in white system clothing on top of the regular clothing I have and claiming that clothing was "missing," forcing me to "take off" the white pants etc each log-in.

So a Linden did some procedures on my account, and when I next logged in, I literally was like a newbie -- a brand-clean screen, with "choose your gender" which is why I even decided to get the new system avatar in the first place.

So it's not an issue with a shape or something, these are what they are.

I realize that there's always a concerted set on the forums who serve as strident fanboyz and fangirlz fiercely loyal not only to the Lindens but their chosen creator crew, and refuse to concede any criticism.

But sorry, the truth has to be said. Whatever the creative impulse here, the implementation is ghastly.

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You clearly have no understanding of how SL avatars work if you make a statement like that. I've removed/replaced parts of each avatar, worn and mixed and matched to my heart's content. I mentioned this in previous posts - using shoes from two of the new avs on my alt. I now also wear the eyes from the av I've photographed on that alt; they're very pretty and detailed. Each av is just a set of components like any other in SL. If you can't understand how avatars work, you aren't qualified to comment on them. You don't even realise which avs are in the current set (traditional default bodies plus mesh clothing) versus the previous set (add-on mesh bodies with the default SL body concealed by an alpha).

 

[Dresden]

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Bobbie Faulds wrote:

Prok just likes to complain. Always has. Back the last time he was really active, lots of arguments...even calling the SL Mentors corrupt...but I digress.

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It's not digression when you hit the nail on the head.

Prok does like to complain.  He also seems to lack the ability of understanding that about which he chooses to complain.  And the moment you suggest it's not as bad as he makes it out to be or try to explain the way things actually work, all of a sudden you're some sort of fanboy or whichever other conspiratorial creation he can conjure up.  Facts be damned.

...Dres

[Kelli May]



Mixing and matching 

Daisy skin

Carla brows

Maria shape

Kimberly eyes

Wyatt hair, just for the heck of it

Kimberly shirt

Carla jeans

Elizabeth shoes

My own AO.

 

[Prokofy Neva]

You clearly haven't tried these new avatars if you persist in making this statement.

You fail to realize that these are all mesh, which is one reason they don't have parts you can take out, they are welded together.

I'm specifically talking about the hair and tie on one avatar I'm actually wearing both of which cannot be removed unless you take the entire hat and hair off with it, etc.

Again, newbies shouldn't be forced to have this.

As for the female avatars, if they work better, that's great, but I'm talking about the males.

People have trouble accepting the truth, and the bearers of the message, they think they are ignorant, unsophisticated, "don't know how SL works" blah blah. I've been in Sl 11 years.

Call me when a) you have tried all the male avatars b) mixed and matched every single element of their outfits. Bye!

[Prokofy Neva]

@Amethyst your post is really TOO TOO funny.

Really, one never has to satirize Second Life, so many self-satirize.

It has long been the case that among the biggest hobbles to user retention and growth is the existing population who think there's nothing wrong with the company, the platform, or the people on it.

I suppose it would never occur to you in a million years that the entire purpose of a NEWBIE outfit is yes, to be easy, to enable the person to pull it on in one go so that they don't look stupid, and can go about the TOUGH JOB of acclimatizing to SL's very steep learning curve without their hair up their butt, literally.

As for the claims that I'm ignorant, here's what Keli May wrote above:

"True, they aren't perfect. The proportions (of the ones I checked) are still out, and the clothing isn't mix-and-match enough to satisfy my need to customise."

She is likely not talking about the physical impossibility of separating elements like I am, but she's still got her finger on the problem: there aren't enough elements to mix and match as there were many times before. She's right, and so am I.

[Bobbie Faulds]

It actually sounds like you've stumbled on the mesh avis, which I agree are gruesome and not the newest ones. The newest ones are system avis with mesh clothing. There's a huge difference between the older mesh avis and the newest with mesh clothing. Yes, some of the clothing is a set and can't be separated. Some of the hair is attached to the hat, which is common these days to eliminate the hair poking through the hat. They are a huge improvement over the all mesh bods you couldn't change the skin on and no clothing worked with and the newest system avis with mesh clothing.

As for the mix and match, these are starters. They are made with enough to get you started. You want more in your wardrobe, hit up The Free Dove or or hit one of the many hunts that are always going on if you don't want to spend money. Otherwise, grab your money and go shopping to add to your wardrobe.

So tired of the sense of entitlement that dictates that LL give you an avi with a full wardrobe or that creators give you stuff for your avi and that same sense gives you the right to **bleep** and moan because things aren't exactly like you think they should be. You don't like what LL provides? The original Ruth is still in your library. Try her on and see where started.  That one had no AO at all, just the LL duck walk.

 

[Prokofy Neva]

@Coby Foder It's not about stripping the avatar nude.

It's about being UNABLE TO SEPARATE elements of the costumes.

Sure, you can take off the entire thing and put another skin you bought on it! Hurray!

If there is a "glitch in my system" others share it too -- constantly crashing.

Indeed, the entire reason I went seeking these avatars is due to constant troubles with my regular outfits.

So ahead. Take the hat off the Indian avatar in the male line-up, and put it on your female avatar. I'll wait!

[Prokofy Neva]

Yes, um, that's what I said at the beginning. THE MESH AVATARS. Where YES you can't take things apart and that is a BIG PAIN.

But of course, it's only because I "like to complain" LOL.

Honestly -- self parody, all of it.

Funny, my other mesh hair and hats don't have these problems where.

But then, all of mesh is a racket given how much it makes you buy all kinds of things to adjust to it.

[Innula Zenovka]

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Prokofy Neva wrote:

Yes, um, that's what I said at the beginning. THE MESH AVATARS. Where YES you can't take things apart and that is a BIG PAIN.

But of course, it's only because I "like to complain" LOL.

Honestly -- self parody, all of it.

Funny, my other mesh hair and hats don't have these problems where.

But then, all of mesh is a racket given how much it makes you buy all kinds of things to adjust to it.

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There are several distinct sets of avatars.   The new ones, on the first tab in the viewer's "Choose An Avatar" window, labelled "Classic," have traditional, modifiable, system shapes.   These are distinct from the all-mesh avatars on the Vampires and People tabs, which were introduced a few years ago.

The new avatars are identical, in this respect, to my main avatar, who has a shape I've been tweaking since 2007 and skins which I wear from my inventory and who frequently wears complete mesh outfits.

I take the point that you don't like the way, for example, the Dylan avatar's hair and hat are a single unit, so he can't remove his hat without removing his hair, too.   However, I think it's misleading to describe him as a "mesh" avatar, since that gives you no way of differentiating these avatars from the ones on the Vampire and People tabs, designated as "mesh" in your library folders..